Lawn tractor

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Lawn tractor, Garden Tractor, Riding mower, whatever. I know there are differences, but that's what this thread is about. I used to sell these things years ago, but things have changed. My old '65 Sears died 10 years ago, and I've never bothered to get another rider.

Well, I now have about 3 acres to keep up. There will be more in a while. For the time being, it's fairly rough, and I tend to push equipment hard, even though I maintain everything very well. I need to be able to cut reasonably tall grass, and I need something to withstand some decent abuse. That said, I've narrowed the brand field down. Don't say it, I don't want a Deere. I live in NC, everybody and their three-toed little sister has a Deere. I just won't buy one. No Craftsman, no zero turn thingies. I like a tractor-type mower.

I like to keep things for a long time, but this will have an expected service life of about 3 years with good reliability. At that point, I'll either be buying something more professional, or realizing I'm not just not that good at commercial real estate investment.:D After that point, I'm open to a few parts wearing out here and there.

After paying people repeatedly to keep bushhoging this land once every few months, it's stupid not to just axe the push mower and get something I can work with as well as keep my lawn up.

Kubota
Simplicity
Cub Cadet (lower end driveshaft model)
Toro (Wheelhorse Classic)
Snapper

Can it be done for under 4 grand? If so, what are your recomendations? I saw the Cub 2544 or whatever it was, with the driveshaft for about 2500 bucks brand new at a dealer around here last year. Way off what retail is, but they can be had in that price range reliably. I liked it, but I haven't owned one. I did test it, and it was nice.

I've been on a Simplicity Regent, and it scared the hell out of me. It was obviously one hell of a machine, but if something ever broke, there would be astronauts pulling gear teeth out of their butts. Those blades are like little jet turbines under there. It didn't seem so much like a lawn mower, rather, it was like wrapping your legs around a tornado that became lodged in a demon's ass after passing through a glass warehouse full of razor blades. One can be had for under 3000, steel underwear is extra.

Kubota is nice, but expensive as hell. I couldn't get as much Kubota as I could the other brands. Are they that much better in this price range that the lower models would satisfy me?

I don't know much about the Toro. It's expensive, and I've only ever seen one in person. It's way over budget, I just put it in here because it looks nice.

I've never operated a Snapper.

Left to my own devices, I'd just go by the Cub with the driveshaft. Everyone here loves them, the problem is nobody around here knows what they are talking about. I can never find a single person intelligent enough to answer my simplest questions. Apparently MTD ownes them now, has that made a difference in reliability?

So, again I defer to Discoweb judgement. I know there are people here who have some of these machines. What do you think I should be looking at? What brands, and what models?

Cheers,

Kennith
 
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EJB90

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Feb 26, 2007
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Connecticut
Well I would say Kubota. Excellent engines. Obviously the most expensive though, but will probably last the longest. I don't really like simplicity for some reason, but their magazine shows the really cool patterns you can make with them. I don't really like any of the other brands- isn't cub cadet a cheapo brand now? I wouldn't buy a tractor with a Brigs and Straton motor either.

We have a John Deere and its a piece of crap. Tons of electrical issues. It's not the knock off Home Depot kind either (which I don't recommend). Our local John Deere dealer refuses to sell and fix them because they say they are pieces of junk.
 

DIIdude

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Aug 28, 2004
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It would be nice to see a picture of the three acres so one could get an idea of just how rough it is. If you have people bush hogging it, and you're going to get a more home lawn oriented mower to cut it, well good luck. I'd say whoever services it for you will come to know you on a first name bases, maybe even put you on his Christmas card list.

The only two type units I would consider would be an out front type like the commercial people use, I know around here people like the Grasshoppers. Or a small compact tractor with a three point hitch. That way you can have a bush hog for the heavy stuff and a finish unit for the home lawn. The problem with these two choices is cost, although compared to the other option the old saying comes to mind, "you can pay me now, or pay me later". Good luck. :cool:

Oh, and just so you know, I'm a golf course superintendent, so I have a little experience with this.
 
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garrett

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Jun 18, 2004
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Middleburg, VA
www.blackdogmobility.com
Kubota is the easy choice in that list. Stay far away from the Cub Cadet junk. It's one step above MTD at best. MTD is trying to make them affordable to the masses and peddling that crap at Lowe's. The quality is very noticiable. Ask any small engine repair guy.

If you can find a nice example of an older Wheelhorse they are a very solid tractor.

We're currently looking at some larger tractors that are much bigger, but it's been amazing to see that a $65K tractor holds 60% of its value over 15 years.

Older JD units are solid, but again they are building sub par equipment compared to Kubota on their "lawn" tractor line. Once you start looking at real tractors ($25K+) that's another story.

Kubotas are like Hondas. They don't depreciate very much and they are incredibly reliable.

Ditto what Tom said. Those Cubs are great little machines. PA DOT still uses them with a sickel bar attachment to cut the edges of road ways. VERY simple machine that will outlive you. If you visit an antique farm show there will be a few for sale usually.
 
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BaldEagle

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Sep 13, 2004
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Atlanta, GA
from your original post, it sounds like you need a used compact farm tractor, around 20 hp. especially if you will be getting more land. cutting that much tall grass will kill the tractor after a while. we have 10 acres with about 5 of it grass, we melted a big riding mower pretty quickly.
 

apg

Well-known member
Dec 28, 2004
3,019
0
East Virginia
garrett said:
Kubota is the easy choice in that list. Stay far away from the Cub Cadet junk. It's one step above MTD at best. MTD is trying to make them affordable to the masses and peddling that crap at Lowe's. The quality is very noticiable. Ask any small engine repair guy.

...and they would tell you to stay the hell away from Michigan Tool and Die.

Though my experience runs only to mowers as opposed to tractors, the same attention to QC is probably evident in both. An MTD purchased (at Lowes....) to replace a 20+ year old Craftsman with a Briggs lasted *one* year....
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
antichrist said:
A Farmall Cub with a belly mower would do very nicely for what you want, and are pretty low maint. http://farmallcub.com/albums/Ron-Whiting/aae.sized.jpg
There's a nice one on ebay now in your price range, with a scickle mower, which would also work, depending on how "rough" the ground it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1949-McCORMICK-...ryZ91953QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That would be nice, but it's not THAT rough.:D I can't haul that thing all over the place, anyway. Don't get me wrong, I've always loved those Farmalls, I have a few models of them, and even want to get one eventually, but that's just excessive for what I need. That's sort of the kind of thing I'm going to replace this one with when I get more property. Right now, I've still got to mow my own lawn.

I am bushhogging the land becasue I haven't been mowing it often enough. It's just grass, but the first few passes with the mowerhave to cut through a small amount of dead grass that's been left after clearing. There is a lady nearby there with a Dixie Chopper who has offered to hit it first for free, to make starting easy for me. She has been taking care of one of the lots because it's adjacent to her house, and she just seems to love mowing grass.

When I say rough, I mean it's no residential lawn just yet. When I get the mower in there, it's going to be a bit of patchwork grass until spring rolls around. I wouldn't expect it to kill the Kubota at all, but I was questioning the Cub.

Anything designed to simply mow a quarter acre of smooth grass about 1/4 inch down every week isn't going to cut it here. Think of this land as looking like some trashy white guy's back yard.

It's not very bad, but I expect it will wear out something that isn't well built prematurely.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

garrett

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2004
10,931
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53
Middleburg, VA
www.blackdogmobility.com
The Cub Cadet would be fine for the average home owner with a Chemlawn front and rear yard at "Fox Run Estates" subdivision.
They are average pieces equipment at best. You'd be better off with a good used and older JD, CC, Wheelhorse or Kubota of any vintage.
My father and sister both have 10 year old JD lawn tractors with about 18 horse motors. Good machines and easy enough to work on. The older Wheel Horse tractors with the rear mounted engines are super easy to work on.
Very few independent companies producing good, small equipment. They've all sold out to the Wal Mart way.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
garrett said:
Kubota is the easy choice in that list. Stay far away from the Cub Cadet junk. It's one step above MTD at best. MTD is trying to make them affordable to the masses and peddling that crap at Lowe's. The quality is very noticiable. Ask any small engine repair guy.

If you can find a nice example of an older Wheelhorse they are a very solid tractor.

We're currently looking at some larger tractors that are much bigger, but it's been amazing to see that a $65K tractor holds 60% of its value over 15 years.

Older JD units are solid, but again they are building sub par equipment compared to Kubota on their "lawn" tractor line. Once you start looking at real tractors ($25K+) that's another story.

Kubotas are like Hondas. They don't depreciate very much and they are incredibly reliable.

Ditto what Tom said. Those Cubs are great little machines. PA DOT still uses them with a sickel bar attachment to cut the edges of road ways. VERY simple machine that will outlive you. If you visit an antique farm show there will be a few for sale usually.

So Cub Cadet is out. That's fine.

Kubota I've always liked anyway. They have several model lines. Do you have an opinion on where I should begin looking for a start? Say, what's the lowest model I should consider? After that, what's the best fit for me?

Remember, By the time this mower hits anything, it will have already been cleared and mowed. Its only cutting grass, it's just not the best grass in the world right now. I'll probably hit some 1/4" dry and dead crackly vines the first few times. I hauled out most of them, but something always remains.

Mind you, these three acres are divided between 3 pieces of property. So, it's not one giant, hot, difficult job every week. Plenty of time to rest.

I really don't think I need a compact tractor. I think I need a tougher lawn mower. I'm not blindly ignoring your advice, it's just that I'm pretty sure a mower can handle it if it's a good mower. The thing is, I dont' know what's good anymore. And I just can't trust the locals, even at the dealers, to give good advice.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
garrett said:
The Cub Cadet would be fine for the average home owner with a Chemlawn front and rear yard at "Fox Run Estates" subdivision.
They are average pieces equipment at best. You'd be better off with a good used and older JD, CC, Wheelhorse or Kubota of any vintage.
My father and sister both have 10 year old JD lawn tractors with about 18 horse motors. Good machines and easy enough to work on. The older Wheel Horse tractors with the rear mounted engines are super easy to work on.
Very few independent companies producing good, small equipment. They've all sold out to the Wal Mart way.

Except Kubota. I guess that leaves me with no choice. Good thing then, that the place that has the higher end Cubs for so cheap is actually a Kubota tractor dealer. I'll bet they could do me a decent price.

I'll eventually get a proper tractor, and I like the Kubota compacts as well for that application, but right now, I'd be pissed if I couldn't get around my yard with this thing as well. I hate mowing lawns with a pusher. The angle and the vibration just plays hell with my back anymore.

I am going to go down to the Kubota dealer in a while and see what they've got in stock.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
sven said:
From what you describe, a good "garden" tractor would fit the bill. A "lawn" tractor will work, but will wear out quickly over rough terrain.

What the heck is the difference, anyway? I mean, without marketing involved, what parts can I expect to be different? Things used to be so simple.

Is a garden tractor just what the lawn tractor SHOULD be? Is it, rather, a rider made properly?

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
antichrist said:
A Farmall Cub with a belly mower would do very nicely for what you want, and are pretty low maint. http://farmallcub.com/albums/Ron-Whiting/aae.sized.jpg
There's a nice one on ebay now in your price range, with a scickle mower, which would also work, depending on how "rough" the ground it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1949-McCORMICK-...ryZ91953QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Don't get me wrong, here. I highly value your advise, I just don't think I was entirely clear about what I would be mowing. I would like to have one of those eventually.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Oh, I'm digging the GR series from Kubota. Everything is shaft driven. Might be a bit too rich for my blood now, but I'll ask about them. I wonder if the low end T series would handle this stuff?

Cheers,

Kennith
 

sven

Well-known member
kennith said:
What the heck is the difference, anyway? I mean, without marketing involved, what parts can I expect to be different? Things used to be so simple.

Is a garden tractor just what the lawn tractor SHOULD be? Is it, rather, a rider made properly?

A garden tractor will typically have a much stronger frame, for dealing with bumps, rocks, etc. Also, the rear tires can be larger and wider than a lawn tractor. Motors are usually the same between lawn and garden. Oh, and garden tractors are typically $5000 and up.

I own both lawn and garden JD's and the differences are very apparent when you use both.
 

garrett

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2004
10,931
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Middleburg, VA
www.blackdogmobility.com
Like a Land Rover, I like a tractor (small or large) to be able to do all things quite well.
I'll never own or live on a place that needs much hand mowing or has the need for a small riding mower.
First I usually decide if I need to buy new or not. Sarah is in the process of buying a $70K JD tractor. She decided to go with a new one because a 15 year old tractor of the same model and specs was still selling for $40K+. If you're going to use something once or twice a week then used might be the option, but for her this tractor is running 6 hours a day and the price difference was minimal in the big picture.
Secondly is how much I can do with one tractor. 3-point hitch, pto, etc.

But it does sound like you'd be fine with something relatively small, but don't sacrifice with a cheap tractor. The decks wear out and the pulleys and bearings will be failing in no time. So many of them are cheap stamped steel and bolted together decks. That's what takes the beating along with the front steering components.

I am willing to bet that even the T Series will do just fine.

Enjoy shopping. I love tractor shopping.