Water in #7... HG or Cracked Block?

ohill

Active member
Apr 12, 2014
44
0
Deep south
Hello everyone. Sorry for the long post in advance. I have a d2 03 with just shy of 150k. Up until a week ago all was well no overheating, no coolant leaks, 180 t-stat, green coolant, ultragauge temps never above 200 (runs cool..probably why I get terrible mileage 11mpg and much carbon buildup on valves, mostly stop and go though). BTW, I've had the truck for almost 8 years and 80k and has never overheated.

So, I drove to the store 2 miles away, ran well came out of store started engine and miss fire on #7 (0307 misfire). Drove it home 2 miles, never overheated, highest temp was 192 (flashing CEL). Coolant level went way down, sprayed out of overflow from over pressure. Once home I removed the breather tube to get to #7 plug, coolant poured from throttle body. Pulled # 7 plug and turned engine over and sprayed water from # 7. So I pulled the heads and no steam cleaned pistons. Composite part of head gasket does look deteriorated on bottom side between water jacket and #7 hole.The composite part is almost gone there on bottom side right up to metal ring. Could it have blown between there? Bolts were all still tight...real tight! Took impact sockets, breaker bar, cheater pipe and knuckle skin to remove.

So my questions are... now that I have it this far torn down, should I pull the block and have it pressure tested? I want to go ahead and change the timing gears and chain and oil pump, which I can do with it in the truck, but I'm thinking I hate to spend time and money only to put it back together and have same problem with a crack behind liner on #7. Is that area a common place for cracks in block? also is it a common place for HG failure? Should I have the block checked before I spend money on reworking heads and buying gaskets and timing and oil pump gears, etc.?

Or at 150k should I just pull the block anyway and check main and rod bearings, replace crank seals and all gaskets, etc. Cam looks good from eyeballing from top and lifters come out easy and are not mushroomed or worn looking from eye inspection (I removed a few to inspect and put back in same holes, plan to have a better look). What do you guys think? Install new head gaskets and try that or pull the block and pressure test and if good complete overhaul from there? Thanks and your input will be greatly appreciated.
 

seventyfive

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2010
4,280
100
over there
What I do is grind the welds, remove the old ckps mount, clean/wiz wheel the block, remove the spring pin and tap a 5mm thread in that hole, jb weld the new ckps mount, then using RED loctite thread a 5 mm screw to hold the new mount while the jb weld sits up.
You just need to be carefule that the new mount is absolutely flush while the jb weld sits up.
Done about 5 engines that way now with no issues.
 

DiscoPhoto

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2012
2,581
76
Vermont
That's the easy part.

The hard part is finding a 7 year old kid (with small enough hands even then) to reach the bellhousing bolts on a D2.



.



I have plenty of those in my basement so I'm not worried. I'm ready to move away from Rover v8s anyways, but if my 4.0 goes before I find a solution it's getting a gems 4.6.
 

ohill

Active member
Apr 12, 2014
44
0
Deep south
Mike, do you find it easy to weld on the new crank sensor mount?

Are you guys talking to me? OP? just wondering if you were discussing welding on a bracket because if I put in a Gems block it would require a different bracket for crank sensor? or something?
 
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ohill

Active member
Apr 12, 2014
44
0
Deep south
Find a gems bottom end and completely rebuild it. Don't forget new cam bearings and a line bore.

Are you saying this motor isn't worth rebuilding? Does it sound like a cracked block to you? Not sure if I could even find a gems block around here and if I did would the ECU accept it or would I have to have it reprogrammed? Hoping it's just a blown head gasket and I can get another 50k out of it.
 
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listerdiesel

Well-known member
Are you guys talking to me? OP? just wondering if you were discussing welding on a bracket because if I put in a Gems block it would require a different bracket for crank sensor? or something?

The pickup on the GEMS engine is on a different PCD to the Thor engine. The block is the same, but the pickup mounting is different to give the altered position.

Peter
 

listerdiesel

Well-known member
Are you saying this motor isn't worth rebuilding? Does it sound like a cracked block to you? Not sure if I could even find a gems block around here and if I did would the ECU accept it or would I have to have it reprogrammed? Hoping it's just a blown head gasket and I can get another 50k out of it.

I'd have a long look at the block and the head.

150K miles isn't bad for a D2 engine, and it may well respond to cleaning up the block face, getting the heads refaced and new composite gaskets.

Only you can make the call, I'd have a go at it if it was me.

Peter
 

ohill

Active member
Apr 12, 2014
44
0
Deep south
I'd have a long look at the block and the head.

150K miles isn't bad for a D2 engine, and it may well respond to cleaning up the block face, getting the heads refaced and new composite gaskets.

Only you can make the call, I'd have a go at it if it was me.

Peter

Thanks again. I have my fingers crossed. I will get down on the block with a magnifying glass or loupe to see if I can see any hairline between #7 and water jacket from topside. Wish I had some of those plates to pressure test the block best I could while still in the truck. Was a good engine. No oil burning or anything. Maybe I should do the heads and hold off on the timing set and oil pump till I see if the new head gaskets are going to hold up?
 

jafir

Well-known member
May 4, 2011
1,628
0
Northwest Arkansas
Are you saying this motor isn't worth rebuilding? Does it sound like a cracked block to you? Not sure if I could even find a gems block around here and if I did would the ECU accept it or would I have to have it reprogrammed? Hoping it's just a blown head gasket and I can get another 50k out of it.

I think he's suggesting that the newer the block is, the crappier they got.

The blocks was a newly updated/improved design for 1995/1996 model year, so the closer you get to that probably the better. The Bosch engines came out for 1999 model year, so they are newer and maybe crappier. I was well pleased with my 1996 d1 and 1999 d2 engines. My 2003 d2 engine ran well, but was the noisiest, most oil leaking, of the lot.
 

sedat

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2014
80
1
Vegas!
You may not be able to see the crack. I just dealt with a block failure on my 97 4.6 engine. Cyl 4 would fill with coolant after a hard run. Heads weren't leaking, and the cometic gaskets were still fine. that left one place left. No slipped liner even.

I found a 09D 4.6 short on craigslist and carried everything to it. No problems yet.

Don't forget the cam gear when you go from gems to bosch.
 
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ohill

Active member
Apr 12, 2014
44
0
Deep south
I think he's suggesting that the newer the block is, the crappier they got.


The blocks was a newly updated/improved design for 1995/1996 model year, so the closer you get to that probably the better. The Bosch engines came out for 1999 model year, so they are newer and maybe crappier. I was well pleased with my 1996 d1 and 1999 d2 engines. My 2003 d2 engine ran well, but was the noisiest, most oil leaking, of the lot.

Thanks jafir .I believe he's right. Like everything else these days.


Mine has been noisy since about 100k. It ticked for awhile when warmed up but, it would come and go. 15W40 & 20W50 oil helped with that some in my case. I always thought it was a lifter but, after reading more, sounds like it may have been a liner or oil pump. I can't see any sign of a slipped liner, but I probably wouldn't be able to tell with my untrained eye. Can't feel any that's up or down more than others.
Could be worse I guess, like I could have been a few hundred miles from home when It gave out. Glad it was in my drive.
 

ohill

Active member
Apr 12, 2014
44
0
Deep south
You may not be able to see the crack. I just dealt with a block failure on my 97 4.6 engine. Cyl 4 would fill with coolant after a hard run. Heads weren't leaking, and the cometic gaskets were still fine. that left one place left. No slipped liner even.

I found a 09D 4.6 short on craigslist and carried everything to it. No problems yet.

Don't forget the cam gear when you go from gems to bosch.

Glad to hear you had good luck with that. I read all these stories about ECU needed reprogramming and that nobody can do it but dealer and they want $1500. I'm about afraid to get another engine even same year. I guess if changing only the block the ECU would not know the difference?
 
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ohill

Active member
Apr 12, 2014
44
0
Deep south
Anybody know what the last two digits on the head # Means? Mine are HRG 2479 22 and I may buy a set of already rebuilt heads and have them shipped to me and deal with these later. Machine shop is is too far off for me to fool with right now. If it did not work and leaked again into cylinders with rebuilt heads and new gaskets, I could always use the rebuilt heads on another block. As long as I didn't run it hot. I'm wondering if I need heads with the same digits (#22) in the part # or just any HRC 2479 heads as long as they have SAI holes? Any differences in the heads with SAI air holes?
 

jhmover

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
5,571
3
California
I'd guess perhaps the older blocks are indeed better. My 96 D2 has over 300,000 on it. Still has the original timing chain, cam, lifters, pistons. The head gaskets were done at 114k and 298k.
 

seventyfive

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2010
4,280
100
over there
Thanks jafir .I believe he's right. Like everything else these days.


Mine has been noisy since about 100k. It ticked for awhile when warmed up but, it would come and go. 15W40 & 20W50 oil helped with that some in my case. I always thought it was a lifter but, after reading more, sounds like it may have been a liner or oil pump. I can't see any sign of a slipped liner, but I probably wouldn't be able to tell with my untrained eye. Can't feel any that's up or down more than others.
Could be worse I guess, like I could have been a few hundred miles from home when It gave out. Glad it was in my drive.

When you get an engine noise using a thicker oil simply masks the problem. If you have a machine shop inspect the block I think they will find your cam bearings are worn.