No more bumpstocks

SGaynor

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Dec 6, 2006
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Stu, as a matter of fact, governments do declare previously-legal items illegal. By itself it is nothing new, neither it is a breach of the law. Even if the item was previously (arguably) protected by the Constitution. Societies change, so are the policies and the laws. My only vague concern stems from my ignorance in legal matters - could/should it have been done by the President or Congress.

Bump stocks are a senseless abomination. I don't see banning them as Second Amendment violation or threat of one.
Of course the govt bans things that were once legal. But it is done by the representative branch passing a law, then being signed by the Executive (and finally, verified by the judicial).

It doesn't happen (in democracies) that it is decreed by the the Executive, skipping the legislative.
 

SGaynor

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Dec 6, 2006
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Scott, I'd imagine it should be verified by judicial before it is put out in the first place - but it may be too much to ask.

Can't challenge a law in court until it's actually a law (and someone suffers a "loss"). It's just the way our system is set up.
 

Timmy!!!!!!!

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Jun 7, 2004
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Maybe this article will help define things a little more clearly.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...NAF3pwTNy-K8FL0s1VoNZTCwIl9O5Mh6N1G3PYWNCFLW0

The problem with machine guns is the finite amount that the civilian population can own because of the Hughes amendment. As a result the price of them goes up every year. A Mac 10 that cost maybe 50 dollars to make is now worth 7-8k dollars. This makes it to where only the rich can purchase them. There are also a considerable amount of people out there that want to keep machine gun ownership this way because of how they invested in them.

Before 1986 a registered full auto HK trigger packs would cost around 200 dollars plus a 200 dollar tax stamp. In 32 years that same trigger pack now can cost an individual upwards of 32k easily as a result of supply and demand.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
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North Carolina
The only correction of mistakes that should occur is the following:

The word Infringed be completely re-defined in the dictionary from what it states currently or

Any gun law enacted at all, anywhere, by anyone, be repealed and/or voided.

We don't need to re-define "infringed". The definition used in choosing that word was "violated". The definition used for "violate" was: To transgress, corrupt, go after, or otherwise harass.

The meaning of the sentence as a whole is easily understood, as well. It's one of the most "correctly" written statements of all time, and the authors would be ashamed of a nation that can't understand it.

Continuing to make laws, create categories, require registration, enact training requirements, licensing, etc serves 0 purpose other than to state: The Constitution, as written, is worthless garbage. It carries no weight.

Agreed, but a definition of automatic fire needs to properly address trigger actuation via user-encouraged external forces in relation to the sale of devices. Any conflict, to include an argument, must be based on solid foundations. That foundation had a crack.

This is why everyone is so angry, confused, and ignorant today. Critical thinking is a lost discipline.

If a "bump stock" is illegal, is it similarly illegal for me to mount my rifle and insert a stick or rod in front of the trigger and pull back on it repeatedly and often? (this serves the exact same purpose as a bump stock although it is more stationary). Maybe we can define "trigger pull" as occurring one per minute, but no more. More than one per minute is hereby outlawed.

What you do is one thing. What is allowed for open sale on the market is another. Banning bump stocks effectively defined a trigger pull as the trigger being actuated fully. Leave such arguments for the opposition.

They should probably outlaw bayonet lugs too. Talk about worthless in this day and age, especially for non-combat personnel, right?

I mean as long as infringed doesn't mean what it's defined as and outlawing dumb things is A-ok as long as there's a quorum of people saying they're dumb, we certainly shouldn't stop at just the bump stock.

Bayonett lugs do not affect the function of the firearm action. They are not in play in this discussion.

You're assuming that I don't understand your point. I do, and I support it. I know precisely what the Constitution says about firearms. I own my fair share, and some would have been illegal in the past. Some are currently targeted by the screaming mob to be made illegal.

I don't want that to happen. Using their own argument methods, however, is folly. Do you see how, if we continue down your posting process, we will never get anywhere? To my single point and estimation, you have brought a number of different and unrelated questions. I will forever be stuck addressing them, and nobody will accomplish a damned thing. There is no opportunity to reach truth.

This is why those other threads have gone on as long as they have. Few understand how to explore a topic and leave more educated, and those that do have either walked away in frustration in the face of ignorance, or only pop in on occasion.

Anything involving firearm regulations needs to be certain. There was uncertainty, and nearly everyone familiar with bump stocks before they entered popular interest knows it. If we can't agree, we can't fight together as a single unit for the protection of our rights.

Someone just agreed for us. That sucks, but it solved the problem. I'd love to see it all overturned, but failing that, I am patient enough to see it through piece by piece, and shoring up both the freedoms and laws we do have currently makes it more easy to defend them both in the future.

It cuts out an avenue of potential bullshit and sensationalism.

Cheers,

Kennith
 
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p m

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Apr 19, 2004
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Can't challenge a law in court until it's actually a law (and someone suffers a "loss"). It's just the way our system is set up.

Scott, that's precisely why legal departments exist in every company and every entity, including White House - assess legality of a proposed action to avoid a court challenge.
 

rovercanus

Well-known member
Apr 24, 2004
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Scott, that's precisely why legal departments exist in every company and every entity, including White House - assess legality of a proposed action to avoid a court challenge.

And yet VCDL and the GOA are both challenging this as we speak.
 

SGaynor

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Dec 6, 2006
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Scott, that's precisely why legal departments exist in every company and every entity, including White House - assess legality of a proposed action to avoid a court challenge.

Oh, yeah - the white house/congress should have staff that advise on the legality of actions (they do), but that's very different than having the Fed courts review a proposed law.

And Trump has shown over and over again, he doesn't care (travel ban, military build the wall, this). Which is my point - he thinks he is/wants to be a dictator
 

brian4d

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Dec 3, 2007
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High Point, NC
Oh, yeah - the white house/congress should have staff that advise on the legality of actions (they do), but that's very different than having the Fed courts review a proposed law.

And Trump has shown over and over again, he doesn't care (travel ban, military build the wall, this). Which is my point - he thinks he is/wants to be a dictator

Trump had a decisive victory from our supreme court over the travel ban. You are not a 'dictator' when our branches of government are operating effectively, you really can't even think you're one.

For example the wall vote. Pundits and Nancy P. said it would never clear the house, it did. Now pundits say it will never clear the senate.....

If it passes is Trump still a dictator?

Orange man bad, just because I say so. I don't know if you realize it Scott but you've really lost all of your credibility in the politics arena. Annnnnnnnnnnd, once again, you're bringing Trump over to the General Section. Shocker.
 

fishEH

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Jan 26, 2009
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The Left showed their hand(and lost their credibility) when they were talking impeachment before Trump was even inaugurated.
 
Jan 3, 2005
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I agree with Scott's logic here actually (except the liberal democrat bs). If Trump were to ban 30-round magazines, that essentially makes all 30-round magazines illegal and if you have one in your possession you're now a criminal. So if you ban bumpstocks, everyone who owns one..........

I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if there will be some grandfather clauses on this issue or not. Owning a bumpstock has never appealed to me and I could care less if they just go away. So I do not know the details of Trump agenda here other than it being political in nature.

But like many things, what does it matter? Does this saves lives? Do criminals really burst into a bank with their bumpstock and go bat shit crazy? I remember the guy in NV using one of these while shooting out of his hotel room but does this happen on the regular? If you want a full-auto gun you're going to find a full-auto gun. For $200 and some drill bits you could make your own. https://www.ftfindustries.com/product/AR-M16BCFC.html

I don't believe Trump will receive much opposition on banning these things. It's just another way to get his face in the news and piss off both the democrats and republicans because he knows he's got them both by the balls.
 

pinkytoe69

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Jan 14, 2012
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minnesota
I remember the guy in NV using one of these while shooting out of his hotel room but does this happen on the regular?

In terms of things with potential for abuse and harm, "on the regular" is relative.

It's about how much collateral damage from the thing are we willing to accept.

In some cases, the damage of one instance can be a catalyst.

If you want a full-auto gun you're going to find a full-auto gun.

If you want a bomb you can make a bomb.

The deterrent is in the effort (or the unsavory type of persons you would deal with in acquiring).
 

kennith

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Apr 22, 2004
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In terms of things with potential for abuse and harm, "on the regular" is relative.

It's about how much collateral damage from the thing are we willing to accept.

In some cases, the damage of one instance can be a catalyst.



If you want a bomb you can make a bomb.

The deterrent is in the effort (or the unsavory type of persons you would deal with in acquiring).

Most idiots can make a bomb. Nearly any idiot can make a bump stock in a few minutes. The collateral damage factor is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is they should have been classified along with lightning links, in regard to commercial production, with the other items covered at that time.

As for the quality of people you'll meet trying to buy something you shouldn't, you're already one of them if you're looking. Don't shit in the kitchen. Save your money and get one the right way (they're not really too bad; just a choice between an automotive toy or a firearm most of the time if you don't want something stupid rare), or go to someone else's nation and get one to play around with while you're away.

Catalysts are a problem nowadays. I'm not concerned with what one dolt did when it would have been more efficient to use a different approach. The readiness to pile onto anything that seems important disgusts me.

Nobody actually cared, few even remember, and it hasn't been that long.

I know for a fact people don't really give a damn about those events in general. If they did, their asses would be out sorting out worse places where people are actually facing that kind of thing every day. Oh, they'll complain for a couple of weeks, but if the news can't click-bait them any longer, it's over.

It only comes back later like an argument with one of those passive aggressive fucks that will suddenly remind you of a conversation you don't remember when they become angry. Oh, but what about Vegas?

What about it? You never cared, anyway. The people who did were either involved or trying to figure out how it is going to affect their defense of the true meaning of the Second Amendment. A whole bunch of people were killed by poisoning, stabbing, foolishness, unsafe toys, and were beaten to death in this nation today.

People weren't told to care, so they didn't.

Right now, a child is dying of hunger. He's probably two or three years old. His father has one arm, and his mother was raped to death. By the time you're done reading this paragraph, he will have faded away in torment; alone, hungry, and so dehydrated he can't even cry during his panic attack as the light disappears forever. You could probably have done something about it...

Oops. Too late.

He's dead. Everyone here just let him die. We may as well have watched it happen while eating a steak ten feet away. Plan on losing any sleep tonight? Of course not. Nobody does.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
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North Carolina
Damn, Kennith.

I'm just cutting into the bullshit and hypocrisy in a world full of people who have brainwashed themselves.

People don't really care, but they love trying to convince everyone else they do. That's a fact.

The post isn't aimed at anyone in particular. If it happens to apply to someone, it was their own decision to end up that way.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Eriazon

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Sep 24, 2005
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Not aimed at anyone in particular, I agree. But it does make one feel introspective - which is a good thing. I certainly won't eat steak the same way for awhile.
 

pinkytoe69

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Jan 14, 2012
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minnesota
People don't really care, but they love trying to convince everyone else they do.

I think a not-insignificant amount of people do care.

It's just that at some point you realize the universe doesn't give a fuck about anything, and stemming that tide of life going on is 99% fruitless, so only the truly passionate stick with it.

That or you get married and have kids and have to go paper chasing.

The time that would then be spent on bettering humanity goes to recharging your sanity so you can do it all again tomorrow :D