New Bronco

p m

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 19, 2004
15,617
837
58
La Jolla, CA
www.3rj.org
Basically it's comparing the Bronco Sport to the Defender, so the argument is mostly bang for the buck. Not which one is hands down the better vehicle.
The very fact that a Defender is compared to something based on a small-car front wheel drive platform shows just how bad the Defender is.
Nobody in his right mind would compare a Defender of old to a Ford Escape.
It also peels open the sad truth that Gerry McGovern started with peddling a Freelander and never let it go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stu454 and Howski

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,706
1,015
Northern Illinois
How on earth did they manage that? Why would you throw technology at a manual transmission? Maybe I'm just old school.
On a manual trans when you put it in a gear it just stays there. It doesn't take a bunch of fluid held at pressure in channels and sealed pistons and valves and solinoids, solinoids to keep the pressure just right. Just all kinds of shit going on just to stay in one gear cruising at one speed. Then add all the gear changes and different pistons and seals and springs and planetary gear sets. Heat is the automatic transmissions worst enemy.

Once you master not burning up the clutch on launch or even other bad habbits will burn a clutch. But once you learn and don't abuse the clutch, it should last the life of the vehicle. So once you master that, there really isn't much to go wrong. You put the thing in gear yourself, it stays there till you put it in the next gear. Almost nothing going on in the trans but a bunch of oil being splashed around lubricating everything.

I like hand mixers because I am old school. I have 180,000 miles on a 2012 Cruze with the original clutch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: p m

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,706
1,015
Northern Illinois
Driving a manual transmission is an art, make no mistake at all. Drive with someone on or off road who DOES NOT know how to drive one you you'll know exactly what I mean. I'm sure it's a cool feature but for the one who's mastered the craft is it entirely necessary? Also, seems to me it would take the fun/skill out a bit.

On the same topic. Anyone here ever drove with someone who can mix all 5 gears without a clutch? I have.

I can shift all gears without touching the clutch but I need the clutch to launch from a stop. Some transmissions have way better synchros and blockers and will do that much easier. I like to disengage the clutch to shift. It's just quicker and less abusive to the synchros.
 

Rocky

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
2,178
7
Red Sox Nation
Having driven the 2.7 Eco in the F150, this truck is going to have more get up and go than many people are used to. Willing to bet we'll quickly see videos of people wrecking brand new Broncos really soon after the public get their hands on them.
 

K-rover

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2010
2,163
62
Raleigh, NC
Having driven the 2.7 Eco in the F150, this truck is going to have more get up and go than many people are used to. Willing to bet we'll quickly see videos of people wrecking brand new Broncos really soon after the public get their hands on them.
Not to mention that you can easily tune those engines with an ECU flash.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Howski

SCSL

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2005
4,144
152
I am with you. Never understood the whole idea of it.
And your sig just reminded me: non-synchromesh gearbox is even worse. Wheeling Landylass’s old IIa around pay-to-plays in Wales got old quicker than I thought it would.
 
  • Like
Reactions: luckyjoe

fishEH

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2009
6,927
201
Lake Villa, IL
I took my 94 D1 manual to Colorado a few years ago with the whole family. I know how to drive stick but am far from an expert. There were a couple really sketchy scenarios where I made my family get out of the vehicle. Specifically one situation where I didn't have enough oomf to get up a hill right after a turn. I basically needed to back down a ways and get another run at it, but it was all uphill. Getting started while on a steep hill was a pain. The transition from brake to clutch to gas was not fast enough to prevent the uneasy rolling backwards towards the edge of a cliff. I think I utilized the parking brake to minimize it, but I still didn't want the headlines reading "Family of Five Rolls Over Cliff", so I made them walk to the top.
Sounds like the Bronco Crawler gear eliminates this issue, which is huge for non-expert guys that like a manual on the street but really struggle with the transition off road.

Better learn how to put timing chaines in the thing.
Pffffbt, I just did the timing on my '04 Sequoia. Easy Peasy. Could probably do it again in ~3hrs. Compare that to the HG most of us dread in the D1/D2/D90 where even the most competent shade tree is looking at 10hrs+, and that's with machined heads ready to go.

Seeing all the detail and attention put into this Bronco to cater to its end user really makes me bitter about the Pretender.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Howski

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,706
1,015
Northern Illinois
See, thats the problem Land Rover quit making vehicles for us working class slobs a long time ago. Even the Disco1 was pretty expensive new compared to what was on the market then. It would be impossible for a small car company like JLR to compete with Ford on price for similar equipment. It seems like Jeep is the target market they want to go after. But I'm sure lots of people out there are going to buy this Bronco up. It's good to see an American car company knock the cover off the ball.

The Bronco is already at least 8 grand cheaper than a Disco1 would have cost you new 20 years ago.
 

jymmiejamz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2004
6,008
361
35
Los Angeles, Ca
I don’t think anyone would have a problem with the Defender being more expensive if it didn’t look like an evolution of a Freelander and Honda Element (or any other nondescript Asian car). The problem most people have with it is that it is not an instantly recognizable iconic design. The New Bronco looks like a Bronco and a Wrangler still looks like a Wrangler. How many different cars have you heard people say the Pretender looks like?
 

fishEH

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2009
6,927
201
Lake Villa, IL
I don’t think anyone would have a problem with the Defender being more expensive if it didn’t look like an evolution of a Freelander and Honda Element (or any other nondescript Asian car). The problem most people have with it is that it is not an instantly recognizable iconic design. The New Bronco looks like a Bronco and a Wrangler still looks like a Wrangler. How many different cars have you heard people say the Pretender looks like?
Hell, the new Bronco looks more like a Defender than the Pretender does!
 
Last edited:

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
I drove a four-speed Ford Transit without a clutch for two weeks, before I figured out what clutch cable I could adapt for it.
Not much fun as with the clutch - avoiding streets with controlled intersections becomes The game.

Great visual and thanks for the laugh!
 

ukoffroad

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2010
2,125
168
Lynchburg, Va
I don’t think anyone would have a problem with the Defender being more expensive if it didn’t look like an evolution of a Freelander and Honda Element (or any other nondescript Asian car). The problem most people have with it is that it is not an instantly recognizable iconic design. The New Bronco looks like a Bronco and a Wrangler still looks like a Wrangler. How many different cars have you heard people say the Pretender looks like?
You nailed it.
 

DiscoHasBeen

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2016
1,171
262
Indy
I read a couple of weeks ago that LR had 22k orders for the Defender. At the time it had been on the market for what, a few weeks/month? Anyway half of those were request from dealers for demo/TDV's, 11K orders from actual customers. When Ford introduced the Bronco the other day they offered a "First Edition" model with every addon from every edition for 60k. Now, I understand 60k vs 100k isn't exactly apples to apples, but, in a few hours all 3.5k of the Broncos were snatched up and the traffic crashed Ford's servers. So, who's kicking themselves more, LR for not reading the market or Ford because they didn't make 7k available? Or ask 75k.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SCSL

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,043
856
AZ
Does anyone know if the cut-out “window” in the door on the new Bronco is an opening, or is there glass or plexiglass in there?
 

bri

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
6,178
152
US
Driving a manual transmission is an art, make no mistake at all. Drive with someone on or off road who DOES NOT know how to drive one you you'll know exactly what I mean. I'm sure it's a cool feature but for the one who's mastered the craft is it entirely necessary? Also, seems to me it would take the fun/skill out a bit.

On the same topic. Anyone here ever drove with someone who can mix all 5 gears without a clutch? I have.

I guess that is my point. That means it takes talent AND practice. I have some decent experience, but no time to really practice.

Also seen how even amateur "artists" struggle with manual on stuff similar amateur easily manage with auto.

Never spent time with a real expert with a manual.