100% Proof that liners are moving at 'normal' operating temps & causing the tapping!

KngTgr

Well-known member
May 20, 2005
1,321
14
Fairfax, VA
Re: 100% Proof that liners are moving at 'normal' operating temps & causing the tapping!

brushogger said:
BTDT. It's inevitable, but it may take a while.
I guess the real question would be, if the noise is not a big deal, is it worth it to dig into the motor and fix the liners? what would happen if they are not fixed and failure occurs?


Marco
 

jymmiejamz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2004
6,008
361
35
Los Angeles, Ca
Re: 100% Proof that liners are moving at 'normal' operating temps & causing the tapping!

Blue said:
OK, we all agree (including the mechanics) that movement of the liner is not a myth. My point is that do you really think that moving liners is the cause of the ticking sound? If the liners are causing the very loud and rythmic tick on my D2 then they must be rattling around loose in there like dice shaking in your hand at a craps table.

In my experience, when you pull the head on a motor with a slipping liner you can see marks on the old head gasket where it was hitting,.
 

antisoshal

Active member
Jul 16, 2010
38
0
Re: 100% Proof that liners are moving at 'normal' operating temps & causing the tapping!

The only engine I ever worked on with slipping liners (non-rover) had multiple issues. For starts it causes a lot of overall power. If it goes on long enough it will hammer the head gasket apart and probably cause a leak eventually (that is what finally caused us to fix this engine). Once the liner is moving it will only get worse, and its plausible that the liner could work its way down into the crank area if the engine wasn't designed with a lip to prevent it, or it breaks off the lip when the travel gets to free. I don't know the inside of a rover block, but given the engine I worked on was one of the original Buick blocks, it had a lower lip to keep the inserts from falling so it seems likely the Rover does. The tapping noise comes from the sleeve hitting either the insert on the head gasket (which shouldnt last long) or the cylinder head. You can figure out for yourself what hardened steel will do being hammered into aluminum a few thousand times a minute. You are probably most likely to suffer a head gasket failure first, but when you open up the engine youll see the grooves bashed in the cylinder hear which will accumulate carbon, cause hot points and corresponding pre-ignition.
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2007
2,292
12
Oregon
Re: 100% Proof that liners are moving at 'normal' operating temps & causing the tapping!

The last V8 engine we tried to sell ran perfect had no noise with good compression.
The local shop who are bonified Rover certified gods:banghead: had to pull the heads so to install sai heads. They sent the motor back because it didn't pass his fingernail test. The heads had no liner markings but one liner was a bit down compaired to the rest.
This engine was a runner didn't over heat and passed all the tests that any wrecking yard can perform without complete engine tear down and rebuild.
 

DarylJ

Well-known member
Apr 3, 2011
440
24
Doylestown, PA
Re: 100% Proof that liners are moving at 'normal' operating temps & causing the tapping!

ukoffroad said:
what keeps them from sliding too far down?
t2Q02.jpg
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2007
2,292
12
Oregon
Re: 100% Proof that liners are moving at 'normal' operating temps & causing the tapping!

Looking at that pic one wonders how a machine shop gets the old ones out. Not like they can press them out with that lip
 

DarylJ

Well-known member
Apr 3, 2011
440
24
Doylestown, PA
Re: 100% Proof that liners are moving at 'normal' operating temps & causing the tapping!

JohnB said:
Looking at that pic one wonders how a machine shop gets the old ones out. Not like they can press them out with that lip

You don't press them out. You machine them out. They don't even have to be machined all the way to the block. Once they get thin enough on one portion (as they are almost always out of round by the time they are being replaced) you can SEE them move while they are still on the machine. Then you can just lift what's left out.
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2007
2,292
12
Oregon
Re: 100% Proof that liners are moving at 'normal' operating temps & causing the tapping!

Oh I should have figured that out. Thanks
If a liner slips down one would think the liner seat on the bottom is damaged thus rendering the block useless. The top hat should fix that issue as well as taking lots of your spare cash.
 

turbodave

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2008
325
3
KY
Re: 100% Proof that liners are moving at 'normal' operating temps & causing the tapping!

PT - Who is this guy in Louisville then? I'd be interested to speak to him as that is my location, and have obviously done the BBQ grill trick...

The best way to remove 03/04 liners is to put them on your grill... Think of the money you'd save by presenting a liner-less block, instead of them having to be machined out...

As JimmyJamz mentioned - if you have a "ticker" and pull the heads - look for the tell-tale grooves in the head gaskets. These grooves are not caused by detonation, K&N filters, or checking your oil pressure at cold, hot and telling DiscountMike what the numbers were. They are caused by the sharp top edge on the OE liners repeatedly hitting the firing rings.

Also, you don't have to have a consistent tick - mine was like a 1.5 cylinder diesel engine trapped inside a sweet running V8 (before i fitted the new top-hat block)... And "rythmic" is a good way to describe the noise I experienced. There was definately consistent "tick" and a ghost tick that seemed to move around, between the other cylinders.


The only damage I have seen was on "another forum" where someone had lost their compression on an engine that had been ticking for many thousands of miles. The liner had eventually punched through the firing ring, allowing a thin slither to come away from the gasket and get stuck in the valve, leaving the compression a little low. Not exactly a major fail.
 
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DarylJ

Well-known member
Apr 3, 2011
440
24
Doylestown, PA
Re: 100% Proof that liners are moving at 'normal' operating temps & causing the tapping!

turbodave said:
Originally Posted by DiscoMike
A 4.6 is more prone to dropping a sleeve then a 4.0 because of the thinner walls and the adhesive was different also

Holy crap, I just noticed your sig. I.....don't even know what to say about that. I think that is my new favorite.