2020 Defender

Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,205
459
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
I want that data for the engine before I buy it. If you're building engines, you need to test one of each offering at some point so you have the data available. If you've never tested them, you have no idea what you've built. You don't have to test everything you build, but you need to have tested a configuration before you offer it to a customer with glowing language about how awesome it is.

Would you buy a $5,000-$10,000 television without knowing the resolution of the display panel? I wouldn't.

I'm glad yours works great, but I have a line drawn in the sand when it comes to this stuff and, if a company is unable to provide me the specifications of their product, they have no business offering it to the public. When you're selling engines, that's not the only cost or inconvenience for the customer. For all we know you got lucky and they just happened to accidentally build it right.

The whole point of the Rover V8 is how it feels; how it revs, how it keeps pulling faster and faster, and how even though it's a pint-sized, fairly weak V8, it'll keep a heavy-weight Rover in the power band once you get up to speed and push the limits of what makes sense. If you're changing that, you'd better be able to tell me what happened as a result of your tinkering.

I'm sorry man, but they just don't pass go with me. Maybe they were different in the past, but until they can prove they know what they're doing, I'm going to say it's likely that they're buying rebuilds wherever and just reselling them.

The hick down the street can provide me performance data for the busted-ass Chevy engines he builds...

Cheers,

Kennith

Agreed. I am just surprised they are not providing it now. I was able to choose many components of the engine before they built it. Companies change I guess.
 

Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,205
459
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
If Land Rover designed that brush guard

Brings back memories of the winch package LR offered for my ‘95 D90 SW.

The brush guard on the winch bumper if it hit anything would have bent into the fender.

Total waste of money and ended changing it out for an ARB.

Hopefully this one will be better yet with the EU regs who knows.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
What is your interpretation of what you see? I see the brush guard protecting expensive headlamps, whatever's under those mesh panels (possibly fog lights), and serving as a mounting platform for the usual accessories like aux lamps and winch. It appears to be a clean and reasonably sturdy brush guard that, from a functional standpoint, does more or less what brush guards are supposed to do. It's not like this is brain surgery. If anything, this iteration is a little more useful than versions on previous vehicles if it extends to cover fog lights. There are presumably sensors in the bumper that the brush guard can't obstruct. Overall I think it looks pretty good. It won't do much if you drive into a tree at speeds exceeding 0.25mph. It may help protect your expensive headlamps from getting thwacked by a branch on the trail, an errant shopping cart, or scraping against another car if you suck at parking. Lack of grilles over the headlamps is a limitation in the branch protection department, but maybe they will add those later.

It's telling me that people may well be right about those radiators being under the mesh panels. That's a problem. It means after-market bumpers will be slow to come and ugly when they do. It appears that it may be at least partially mounted to whatever the winch is attached to; which tells me there is a possibility that enough metal is back there to mount something else, but those grilles concern me.

If it's fog lights, I don't care. If it's a pair of radiators, I do. Neither will be easy to relocate.

The looks probably aren't bad on the vehicle itself.

Brush bars are more useful in tall grass and, well, brush than they are in forested areas. You've been all up in bush they were meant to work in, so you know what I'm on about. They're not meant to stop much of a branch, but they're great in unmaintained fields, bush terrain in general, and grassy paths, as well as providing mounting points for lights.

They do a lot of keeping seeds, twigs and things out of your radiators by keeping tall foliage away as it's slowly pushed out of the way. That's pretty much the point of them, aside from going some length in protecting the hood lip from abrasion.

When it comes down to brass tacks, people have forgotten why they exist.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Tugela

Well-known member
May 21, 2007
4,754
562
Seattle
Kennith, the engineers at LR have done some stupid stuff in our time, but I'd think that even you would agree that if radiators are hiding behind those mesh panels they would design front end protection for sensitive components that is more robust. We won't know what lurks back there until they show us so your guess is as good as anyone's, but LR can't have gone so far off the rails as to rely on the brush guard in the photo to protect radiators. So either they are not radiators or LR has done a piss-poor job at designing a device to keep them safe.

As for keeping vegetation out of your radiator, the simple solution in South Africa is the seed net, best paired with the brush guard:

front-runner-seed-net-small-REQU045-1.jpg
 
Last edited:

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,899
450
Darien Gap
Someone before said they're radiators or intercoolers, as seen in other modern LRs, and they're an Achilles heel. The brush guard design seems to support this theory.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Kennith, the engineers at LR have done some stupid stuff in our time, but I'd think that even you would agree that if radiators are hiding behind those mesh panels they would design front end protection for sensitive components that is more robust. We won't know what lurks back there until they show us so your guess is as good as anyone's, but LR can't have gone so far off the rails as to rely on the brush guard in the photo to protect radiators. So either they are not radiators or LR has done a piss-poor job at designing a device to keep them safe.

As for keeping vegetation out of your radiator, the simple solution in South Africa is the seed net, best paired with the brush guard:

front-runner-seed-net-small-REQU045-1.jpg

This is the first time I think someone has ever agreed at me. :)

Honestly, though, why would they add any real protection to the radiators? Without the brush bar, it's just plastic covering them. They clearly think that's enough for most uses. With the setup provided in the picture, you have the ability to mesh the openings and keep crap out of them.

And yes, my man up there with the white Defender knows how to use a brush bar properly. I've never once seen a person in the US that did; but then again, I don't spend a lot of time in the Midwest, where it's likely to be more common.

You want the brush bar there to keep that thing from sealing the radiator up at idle.

Heh. I wonder how many people are reading this and thinking: "OOOOhhhhhhhh... That's what they're for!" I'm sure they'll never admit it. :ROFLMAO:

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Hold up, brush bars are for brush?

Ah... But what exactly is their function in brush? People get it wrong.

Many don't even know they aren't designed to protect much of anything. Just start asking people who've fitted them to their various trucks what purpose they are intended to serve in general. It makes parking lots a lot more fun.

Cheers,

Kennith
 
Last edited:

Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,205
459
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
Many don't even know they aren't designed to protect much of anything

The one LR sold me certainly fit that bill.

Of course if one were driving in grass or “brush” which is like heavy grass it would have sufficed.

However, a deer hit in my area would have destroyed the hood, fender, etc.

It certainly was not marketed as something to protect a D90 from grass. 😁

However I’ll be one to admit I didn’t know the main purpose for it.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
When brush gets serious, the serious get dual front bumpers.

That doesn't really surprise me. I've seen much worse out there where parts and material are not readily available.

Why does it appear that thing is in a museum? It looks like something you'd find near a rain forest; extra spares, long ladders, lights right in front of your face and up higher than normal, a largely unobstructed radiator... Where the hell is that thing, and why is it important enough to have a piece of paper in front of it?

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Tugela

Well-known member
May 21, 2007
4,754
562
Seattle
Kennith, that thing is exactly what you found in a rain forest, or a jungle if you prefer. That is one of the surviving Darien Gap expedition Range Rovers from the early 1970s. Currently on display at the Dunsford Collection in the UK. Pretty interesting story behind that trip, you might enjoy reading about it.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Kennith, that thing is exactly what you found in a rain forest, or a jungle if you prefer. That is one of the surviving Darien Gap expedition Range Rovers from the early 1970s. Currently on display at the Dunsford Collection in the UK. Pretty interesting story behind that trip, you might enjoy reading about it.

Damn, that's cool. That must have been a hell of a run back then, because it's not exactly a Sunday drive today. I'm going to look that one up.

Always wanted to go from Deadhorse to Ushuia in one shot, but I've never been above the Canadian border; let alone to Alaska. Not much arctic experience here, so I was waiting to visit and learn a bit first.

There are differences, but I just use rain forest for the left side of the map, and jungle for the right. That's a bit out-dated, but neither one is fun given the damned spider populations in both. Damn. Crawling all over the windshield and shit... I hate those things.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,043
856
AZ
Al those brush guards are good for is guaranteeing smashed headlights, hood, and fenders in an accident. Ask me how I know.
 
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Lake_Bueller

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2004
2,105
59
56
Beloit, WI

Tugela

Well-known member
May 21, 2007
4,754
562
Seattle
Taking the thread further off track here, but last year I got to drive around in a 1973 RR that was owned by one of the participants in the Darien Gap expedition. He came back from the trip, was impressed by the vehicle, and asked LR to build him a custom RR with pop-top roof, on board water tanks, and several other custom mods. It's now owned by a guy in the SF Bay area who had it restored up here in Washington. It now has a 300TDI, R380, LT230, plus updated suspension. It was a fun truck to drive.
 

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