2020 Defender

Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
2,021
19
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
It was still an out of date tin can; potentially the worst vehicle in production anywhere in the world during it's last days.
Little harsh imho from owning a 2005 one. It was manufactured in the Brasilian plant and didn’t leak. We drove it all over Brasil and took it on an extended trip to the Atacama desert in Chile without ever having a single problem. The entire 5 years we had it 0 issues.

As a current RRC and D1 owner, I felt much more secure from a reliable aspect with that 110. Real shame we couldn’t have brought it back legally with us.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,003
43
North Carolina
Little harsh imho from owning a 2005 one. It was manufactured in the Brasilian plant and didn’t leak. We drove it all over Brasil and took it on an extended trip to the Atacama desert in Chile without ever having a single problem. The entire 5 years we had it 0 issues.

As a current RRC and D1 owner, I felt much more secure from a reliable aspect with that 110. Real shame we couldn’t have brought it back legally with us.
Oh, I'm not saying they didn't get the job done. They were just objectively antiquated vehicles; even from the perspective of overland travel.

It was ridiculous to sell them beside even the DII, and for the thing to hang around through the LR4 was just plain insanity.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

mgreenspan

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
4,402
16
Briggs's Back Yard
Oh, I'm not saying they didn't get the job done. They were just objectively antiquated vehicles; even from the perspective of overland travel.

It was ridiculous to sell them beside even the DII, and for the thing to hang around through the LR4 was just plain insanity.

Cheers,

Kennith
I disagree. If you look at the uses in the UK based off the actual roads in rural areas it still is the perfect vehicle. It beats out a Jimny, Isuzu big horn (Chevy Colorado), Nissan Frontier, etc. in most situations. The older ford rangers that were tiny were good for there, but everything keeps getting f-ing bigger as we fast food ourselves to death. The Defender still ticked a lot of boxes for the 2nd world.
 

mgreenspan

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
4,402
16
Briggs's Back Yard
Here’s the thing. I’m fairly confident that the looks are going to massively disappoint me. I’m particular. The only vehicles they have that look acceptable to me are the Evoque, current RRS, and the Disco sport(sort of because I know it’s just a Freelander with third row). This thing can look good and be as lame and kamp as Garrett thinks it is and I’d probably buy it. I just want low range and a good look with a Diesel engine and some semblance of reliability. I think it’ll at least have the last two.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,003
43
North Carolina
I disagree. If you look at the uses in the UK based off the actual roads in rural areas it still is the perfect vehicle. It beats out a Jimny, Isuzu big horn (Chevy Colorado), Nissan Frontier, etc. in most situations. The older ford rangers that were tiny were good for there, but everything keeps getting f-ing bigger as we fast food ourselves to death. The Defender still ticked a lot of boxes for the 2nd world.
The old Defender will generally beat alternatives in performance, but not in construction technique. It needed to be changed.

That stupid little door in the rear needed to go. The body needed to be unitized. The frame needed to be made in a higher quality modern manner. The windshield needed to provide more support. Some of the suspension and steering components needed thorough revision. The structure needed to be improved to handle impact, roll over, and other aspects of unfortunate decisions in a safer way. The ride quality could have been improved, and the track widened a few inches for practicality. Weather sealing was thoroughly out of date. The interior needed revision, as well; and we're talking G Wagon to G5X levels of revision. The climate control needed to be scrapped entirely. More insulation should have been added.

By that point in it's life, it should have been built a little more like a solid axle version of the LR3, which was impressive; if a bit too heavy for the job.

It wasn't, though. It was built like a Model T.

Capabilities identical, I can't imagine a reasonable person who would have chosen the old version over, say, asolid-axle LR4 with an optional truck bed.

You'd have to be a lunatic to make that choice and actually use the vehicle as intended. There's no reason to suffer over "cool factor" in the middle of nowhere. Better ride quality increases endurance, and so does better handling, great climate control, and a bank vault door seal. They all improve your performance under more "overland" conditions.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Lake_Bueller

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2004
1,885
4
51
Green Bay, WI
Interesting to run the comparison in size to the D2 (just because this is DiscoWeb)

Width
Defender 78.7
D2 74.02

Length
Defender 187.32
D2 185.04

Wheelbase
Defender 118.98
D2 100

The wheelbase is the most interesting number to me. I seems like a good thing that the wheels will be pushed out to the corners. Better overall handling.

BTW...it's almost identical to the 4 door Wrangler wheelbase (118.4")
 

fishEH

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2009
6,403
23
Lake Villa, IL
I'm really surprised(disappointed) by the width. I know I don't have to tell you that another almost 5" of width combined with 9" of of wheelbase and 2" of length is going to be trouble anywhere that has trees!
 
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Lake_Bueller

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2004
1,885
4
51
Green Bay, WI
I'm really surprised(disappointed) by the width. I know I don't have to tell you that another almost 5" of width combined with 9" of of wheelbase and 2" of length is going to be trouble anywhere that has trees!
I'm trying to do the geometry in my head but that's never been a strong suit. I'm not so sure the extra wheelbase will hinder. The biggest problem with turning in the D2 (compared to say a D1) is the rear tail swing. I know it may not sure as tightly, but it will track the corner better (or as I completely off base)
 

fishEH

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2009
6,403
23
Lake Villa, IL
I'm trying to do the geometry in my head but that's never been a strong suit. I'm not so sure the extra wheelbase will hinder. The biggest problem with turning in the D2 (compared to say a D1) is the rear tail swing. I know it may not sure as tightly, but it will track the corner better (or as I completely off base)
Instead of the ass end hitting the tree on the opposite side your turning towards, the rear wheels will track right into the tree your turning around! 🤣
 

LRflip

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
5,716
9
none of your fucking business
has anyone asked the dumb question?

we know A defender is coming to the US...

But has anyone confirmed WHICH defender is coming?

1993 - 110
1994 - 1997 - 90

I bet we just get the 90 here again, and everyone will be bitching.
 

Howski

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2009
944
9
Greenville, S.C.
No way LR has their head up their ass far enough not to bring the 110 here. They saw what the 4 door JK did for Jeep

Compared to LR3/4:

Width
Defender 78.7
D3/4 75

Length
Defender 187.32
D3/4 191

Wheelbase
Defender 118.98
D3/4 113.6

The new Defender is really wide...wider than a 200 Series LC...
 

Tugela

Well-known member
May 21, 2007
3,993
22
Seattle
Weather sealing was thoroughly out of date.
On my last visit to South Africa my wife was driving our D110 back to Durban from the Drakensberg when the skies opened up and we got caught in a heavy rain storm. The temperature dropped sharply. The Defender's climate control wasn't doing much (perhaps it couldn't keep pace with the ingress of cold air) and my wife had a waterfall of rain runoff cascading over her feet. We laughed about it at the time because it was so ridiculous and a memorable part of the adventure, but we knew that in 3 weeks we'd be back in our Disco 1 in the States. It's one thing if the inconvenience is a novelty - that's charm. If I had to put up with that on a daily basis over the course of years, that would be different. But I'd still do it. Unfortunately the masochists who prefer the character that accompanies outdated engineering and inconsistent manufacturing quality are not a large enough market segment on which to hang an entire family of vehicles. Many people love the Defender because of its quirks and shortcomings, not in spite of them. They will continue to keep the dinosaurs running. That doesn't mean the brains at LR haven't figured out how to improve upon these things in the new Defender.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,003
43
North Carolina
On my last visit to South Africa my wife was driving our D110 back to Durban from the Drakensberg when the skies opened up and we got caught in a heavy rain storm. The temperature dropped sharply. The Defender's climate control wasn't doing much (perhaps it couldn't keep pace with the ingress of cold air) and my wife had a waterfall of rain runoff cascading over her feet. We laughed about it at the time because it was so ridiculous and a memorable part of the adventure, but we knew that in 3 weeks we'd be back in our Disco 1 in the States. It's one thing if the inconvenience is a novelty - that's charm. If I had to put up with that on a daily basis over the course of years, that would be different. But I'd still do it. Unfortunately the masochists who prefer the character that accompanies outdated engineering and inconsistent manufacturing quality are not a large enough market segment on which to hang an entire family of vehicles. Many people love the Defender because of its quirks and shortcomings, not in spite of them. They will continue to keep the dinosaurs running. That doesn't mean the brains at LR haven't figured out how to improve upon these things in the new Defender.
That's the thing. Generally, the people talking about that new model already have another vehicle to come home to, and the quirks of the Defender are simply part of the experience. They can drive one when out and about, or have one as a second car.

Who here would trade a brand new Power Wagon for an original, if you had to drive it every day? People forget that a Defender is meant to be a daily driver.

It does pain me to say, but the new Wrangler, purely from a build and engineering quality (not performance or durability) standpoint, is very close to what a Defender should have been around the time of the DII, in my opinion.

Right about now, I think a good place for it to be under the skirt would be sitting on a modified LR4 platform.

The new model does indeed meet the original intent of the vehicle, though. I don't think the PTO functions are relevant anymore. When was the last time a person capable of buying a new Land Rover hooked that up to anything even remotely important? Hell, when's the last time anyone has? I don't think I've ever seen it done out of necessity.

I'm not saying I want the old guard to go away, or the Defender to be tamed, but there's a reality that Land Rover ignored for too long, and that's the other half of the reason we're here with this new model:

Being the best doesn't mean you're good enough. It can simply be an accident that isn't endlessly repeatable.

I like the Defender a lot, and it's too bad they can't just keep building the thing the old way, but this is better than nothing. Minus the modern annoyances (electronics, disconnect from controls, bumpers that can't be easily replaced, and so on) that I'm sure will have me bitching, the vehicle looks fine.

It just isn't a "Defender". It's likely to be a really nice SUV that can actually get dirty, though.

They threw good money after bad for far too long on that old platform, and that's on Land Rover. They let it rot to the point that an entirely new vehicle had to be manufactured from the ground up.

So, the old Defender is now where it belongs; as a second or third car in the developed world, and slowly becoming obsolete everywhere else. That was indeed the end of an era; the era just ended a little earlier than most of us would like to admit...

Cheers,

Kennith
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,060
41
Darien Gap
Every chance LR had to significantly evolve the Defender since Stage 2, investment was diverted elsewhere. That happened for far too long, and combined with their diverging corporate image that I previously described, it was no longer feasible even with proper funding. What we have now is similar to the re-introduction of models from the muscle car era that happened not too long ago. Peddled as the latest evolution but with no pedigree. It could have evolved gracefully. LR could have engineered solutions to improve every lacking element, but it didn't happen. It starved while the MBAs steered the ship chasing profits in the luxury market, blind to inevitable market fluctuation and the need for diversity.
 
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