2020 Defender

DiscoHasBeen

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2016
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So yeah, if that LR3 went through this I'll give him props, but I have to think there are multiple lines. Because I ain't buying that LR3 went this way.

 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,899
450
Darien Gap
It's not just hard-core off-roaders that prefer the original. It's those who prefer slow and steady, who want to customize something to their needs, who enjoy hands-on mechanical work, who want a vehicle built for dirty work, who expect a hard working vehicle to be easily repairable, who enjoy the agricultural, industrial, expedition, and military history, who desire the cargo access or heightened senses of soft-top driving, who want no compromises made for the aspects they'd rather disregard, or those who want fully understandable systems and can sense when all-is-well or not.
 
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ukoffroad

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2010
2,125
168
Lynchburg, Va
He was not with us on Daniel, and I am not claiming he ran every hard line there. Jack, his truck was white so that is likely him, just longer ago than I remembered. My point is, his truck did what those of us in older trucks with mild mods did. I think I was running 3” lift and 33s on my D2 at that time.
 

ukoffroad

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2010
2,125
168
Lynchburg, Va
It's not just hard-core off-roaders that prefer the original. It's those who prefer slow and steady, who want to customize something to their needs, who enjoy hands-on mechanical work, who want a vehicle built for dirty work, who expect a hard working vehicle to be easily repairable, who enjoy the agricultural, industrial, expedition, and military history, who desire the cargo access or heightened senses of soft-top driving, or those who want fully understandable systems and can sense when all-is-well or not.

to an extent I agree. If I won 50 mil in the lottery tomorrow I am not wheeling a new one, I would get something older and render it relatively bulletproof.
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,899
450
Darien Gap
It's not just hard-core off-roaders that prefer the original. It's those who prefer slow and steady, who want to customize something to their needs, who enjoy hands-on mechanical work, who want a vehicle built for dirty work, who expect a hard working vehicle to be easily repairable, who enjoy the agricultural, industrial, expedition, and military history, who desire the cargo access or heightened senses of soft-top driving, who want no compromises made for the aspects they'd rather disregard, or those who want fully understandable systems and can sense when all-is-well or not.

What would the modern equivalent look like? Combine the the modularity and off-road capability of a Wrangler, the no-bullshit industrial design of a base- model F250 work truck and you'd have something pretty damn close. It's hard not to refer to the current model Toyota 70 series as well, since it meets most of these criteria. It's even 5-star ANCAP safety rated now, for all you airbag pussies who whine about how old designs can't be updated sufficiently.
 
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JackW

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2005
675
69
Nice pics. Those are some great looking rigs. I'm assuming this dude was running lockers front and back?

No but this guy runs Range Rover suspension under this X5 - apparently when BMW owned Land Rover there was some cross pollination going on..

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SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
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Bristol, TN
It's not just hard-core off-roaders that prefer the original. It's those who prefer slow and steady, who want to customize something to their needs, who enjoy hands-on mechanical work, who want a vehicle built for dirty work, who expect a hard working vehicle to be easily repairable, who enjoy the agricultural, industrial, expedition, and military history, who desire the cargo access or heightened senses of soft-top driving, who want no compromises made for the aspects they'd rather disregard, or those who want fully understandable systems and can sense when all-is-well or not.
And how many of those types of vehicles do you think would actually sell?
What would the modern equivalent look like? Combine the the modularity and off-road capability of a Wrangler, the no-bullshit industrial design of a base- model F250 work truck and you'd have something pretty damn close. It's hard not to refer to the current model Toyota 70 series as well, since it meets most of these criteria. It's even 5-star ANCAP safety rated now, for all you airbag pussies who whine about how old designs can't be updated sufficiently.
The 70 Series are only available in Africa, Australia (middle east too maybe?)...Because they have none of the emissions/safety equipment required in the US/EU. So how exactly do you get one?

The facts remain: Y'all are pining for a vehicle that does not exist, and will not exist, in the NA/EU markets because the requirements put on those vehicles by government regulators and the buying public mean those vehicles can't exist, or won't sell.

My dad bought a bare bones Chevy pick up - new - in 1979. 3 on the column. Two wheel drive. Vinyl bench seat. No radio.

Try, just try, to buy a Toyota/Ford/Chevy/Dodge truck like that today. You can't.
 
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ERover82

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Nov 26, 2011
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And how many of those types of vehicles do you think would actually sell?

The Wrangler is the closest domestically available product, so I'd say quite well. We'll see how the Bronco does entering this space.

The 70 Series are only available in Africa, Australia (middle east too maybe?)...Because they have none of the emissions/safety equipment required in the US/EU. So how exactly do you get one?

The facts remain: Y'all are pining for a vehicle that does not exist, and will not exist, in the NA/EU markets because the requirements put on those vehicles by government regulators and the buying public mean those vehicles can't exist, or won't sell.

We all know where it's sold, which is beside the point. It features curtain airbags, driver knee airbag, seat belt pre-tensioners, and ABS. The only reason Toyota chooses not to import it is obvious; they already offer two trucks and an SUV that cater to the lifestyle of westerners.

My dad bought a bare bones Chevy pick up - new - in 1979. 3 on the column. Two wheel drive. Vinyl bench seat. No radio.

Try, just try, to buy a Toyota/Ford/Chevy/Dodge truck like that today. You can't.

I did. 28,590 MSRP on the equivalent F150.
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
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Bristol, TN
The Wrangler is the closest domestically available product, so I'd say quite well. We'll see how the Bronco does entering this space.
Good point - we shall see with the Bronco. But I don't expect that market to "grow" because of the Bronco, they'll just take a share of the Jeep's.

But even today's Jeeps are a far cry from what they were even 20 years ago. AC? In a Jeep? 😉
We all know where it's sold, which is beside the point. It features curtain airbags, driver knee airbag, seat belt pre-tensioners, and ABS. The only reason Toyota chooses not to import it is obvious; they already offer two trucks and an SUV that cater to the lifestyle of westerners.
This was my exact point.
I did. 28,590 MSRP on the equivalent F150.
(y)
 

DiscoHasBeen

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2016
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Indy
Good point - we shall see with the Bronco. But I don't expect that market to "grow" because of the Bronco, they'll just take a share of the Jeep's.

I think you might be surprised. At least here there are a lot of loyal Ford/Chevy people. Like they aren't going to buy a vehicle that isn't one or the other. I don't know that the numbers will be mind blowing but there will be a market besides just the Jeep crowd.
 
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Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,205
459
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
I don't know that the numbers will be mind blowing but there will be a market besides just the Jeep crowd.
Yep, same as when the Bronco/Blazer first was introduced and Jeep was present. My guess is the new Bronco will sell very well and be really well equipped. And yes, I am a loyal Ford fan - “Friends don’t let friends drive Chevys”.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Honestly, the Defender might be called upon to defend nothing more than its mall parking space, and owners will be perfectly happy. For most, it’s enough just knowing the off-road capability is there.


I'm still cool with what they've made overall, as I didn't expect very much in the way of tradition, but I'll need to see one in person to see just how much of an issue the door and visibility have become. It's not looking promising, though.

It's a Defender, so I'm imagining going to the hardware store and buying a lawnmower, some plywood, or even a bunch of those plastic containers for storing stuff. Cargo management should be better than the original. Packaging is one place almost all new cars are better than old cars, as well as overall quality.

It seems they've got the quality, but the more I look at that, the more I question the packaging of everything behind the front seats, and that's where the action happens in a Defender.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

DiscoHasBeen

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Aug 7, 2016
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Indy
If you are talking cargo door and visibility I'm sure it will be minimal, as it is on all SUV's/crossover's. Why do you think they all come with backup cams.
 

mgreenspan

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
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Briggs's Back Yard
If you are talking cargo door and visibility I'm sure it will be minimal, as it is on all SUV's/crossover's. Why do you think they all come with backup cams.

That’s actually that dumb group that lobbied to get cameras so kids can’t be backed over. Still happens, though. It is mandatory on new cars I’m pretty certain since 2018. Increases vehicle costs.
 

DiscoHasBeen

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2016
1,171
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Indy
That’s actually that dumb group that lobbied to get cameras so kids can’t be backed over. Still happens, though. It is mandatory on new cars I’m pretty certain since 2018. Increases vehicle costs.

That may be, but I never look out the rear of the wife's Highlander when backing up because you can't see shit. Just use the camera. Listening to others complaining I assume they're all like that.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
That may be, but I never look out the rear of the wife's Highlander when backing up because you can't see shit. Just use the camera. Listening to others complaining I assume they're all like that.

Most cars are indeed like that, but some are worse. The 4Runner is so bad, in that regard, that it should be scrapped entirely.

If they still made cars properly; as in, designed to be a multi-ton death machines they actually are, surrounded by others in multi-ton death machines, you'd be able to see out of the windows, and wouldn't need a camera.

My new Golf isn't half bad, in that regard. The rear window should have extended lower, but so far it seems to have the best visibility of any new vehicle I've driven recently. The rest of the windows are fine, nothing gets in the way when you turn around, and so on.

Twenty years ago, half the stuff on the market today would be laughed off as impossible concept cars; because nobody would want to live with them every day.

Backup cameras are actually dangerous in some circumstances. They all blind me at night, but it looks like I can shut this one off. Of course, that will create the potential for liability, but I don't back into shit anyway. Then, there's the tendency for people to just not look anymore, and assume the camera does the job.

My XJS and the DII were backed into by the same person, doing the same bullshit. The camera and beeps make them think they don't have to look.

Cheers,

Kennith