2020 Defender

[Blueboy]

The Land Rover Defender Is the 2021 MotorTrend SUV of the Year

A heady mixture of go-anywhere capability, refinement, style, and luxury, the surprising Land Rover Defender wins our hearts and our calipers.

www.motortrend.com

Never was a fan of Motor Trend.

Car and Driver / Road and Track better imho.

 

[discostew]

Hard reboot of onboard systems!!

Just doesn’t seem like words that should be used for a vehicle.

Maybe hard reboot is a British term. Or just someone who writes articles trying to sound smart.
We call it a hard reset. It just involves disconnecting both battery cables and touching them together. This discharges all the capacitors in all the modules. The first time I had to do that was on 90's era S10 trucks to clear t case codes. So it's not new and it gets these things out of a funk. Like L322 Range Rovers needed it all the time.

 

[Blueboy]

Maybe hard reboot is a British term. Or just someone who writes articles trying to sound smart.
We call it a hard reset. It just involves disconnecting both battery cables and touching them together. This discharges all the capacitors in all the modules. The first time I had to do that was on 90's era S10 trucks to clear t case codes. So it's not new and it gets these things out of a funk. Like L322 Range Rovers needed it all the time.

Or an old (me) person’s term with early IBM desktops that needed restarted/rebooted more often than not. Still there are just way too many electrical gizmos on that Rover for me. Hell, there is way too much wiring in my ‘94 RRC! No doubt I should have kept my ‘67 NADA 109SW aka Blueboy.

 

[mgreenspan]

The Land Rover Defender Is the 2021 MotorTrend SUV of the Year

A heady mixture of go-anywhere capability, refinement, style, and luxury, the surprising Land Rover Defender wins our hearts and our calipers.

www.motortrend.com

Seriously screw Motortrend. Here were the contenders in no particular order:
• Cadillac Escalade
• Genesis GV80
• Land Rover Defender
• Kia Seltos
• Nissan Rogue
• Toyota Venza
• Audi A6 Allroad
• Audi SQ7
• BMW X6
• Buick Encore GX
• Chevy Trailblazer
• Chevy Tahoe/Suburban
• GMC Yukon
• Hyundai Venue
• Mazda CX-30
• Mercedes E450 All-Terrain
• Mercedes-Benz GLA
• Mercedes-Benz GLB
• Mercedes GLC-Class
• Tesla Model Y
• Toyota Highlander
• VW Atlas Cross Sport

Some serious bullshit if you think a Highlander and a Venza are in actual competition with a vehicle with lockers from the factory. Pieces like this are beyond a joke. Even comparing an $83k price as tested model to a Mazda CX-30. LOL

 

[ERover82]

Or an old (me) person’s term with early IBM desktops that needed restarted/rebooted more often than not. Still there are just way too many electrical gizmos on that Rover for me. Hell, there is way too much wiring in my ‘94 RRC! No doubt I should have kept my ‘67 NADA 109SW aka Blueboy.

On a Series diesel, you could disconnect the fuel solenoid (clutch stall to shut off), and the starter(hand crank start), and you'll have a LR that involves zero wires to run. Nirvana.

 

[Blueboy]

And to really muddy the water:
Hummer EV

 

[DiscoHasBeen]

Seriously screw Motortrend. Here were the contenders in no particular order:
• Cadillac Escalade
• Genesis GV80
• Land Rover Defender
• Kia Seltos
• Nissan Rogue
• Toyota Venza
• Audi A6 Allroad
• Audi SQ7
• BMW X6
• Buick Encore GX
• Chevy Trailblazer
• Chevy Tahoe/Suburban
• GMC Yukon
• Hyundai Venue
• Mazda CX-30
• Mercedes E450 All-Terrain
• Mercedes-Benz GLA
• Mercedes-Benz GLB
• Mercedes GLC-Class
• Tesla Model Y
• Toyota Highlander
• VW Atlas Cross Sport

Some serious bullshit if you think a Highlander and a Venza are in actual competition with a vehicle with lockers from the factory. Pieces like this are beyond a joke. Even comparing an $83k price as tested model to a Mazda CX-30. LOL

IDK, what else would they have included that would have changed the outcome. A Wrangler? Doubtful, it's on pavement handling would have killed it. TBH the Defender is without a doubt the best effort in terms of the best of both worlds, offroad, and on.

To me, the bigger joke is that old vs new video I posted. Yes, a stock new Defender is hands down more capable than the original stock. That said we all know the old Defender can easily be modified to go places the new one would epically fail at. So could the DI and DII. The thing is that Land Rover, the LR this site seemed to be created to cater to, extreme off-roading/rock crawling, is no more. LR is now a manufacturer of luxury vehicles.

 

[jymmiejamz]

TBH the Defender is without a doubt the best effort in terms of the best of both worlds, offroad, and on.

The Pretender is the all terrain tire of SUVs. It’s okay at everything and great at nothing. Buy a Range Rover (or street tire) if you want great road manners. Buy a solid axle 4x4 (or a mud tire) if you want to go off road.

 

[umbertob]

I think it's a little bit better than "okay at everything, great at nothing". I can tell you that it's an absolute pleasure to drive and a blast on the road - definitely so with the P400 engine - and from the little I have seen so far, I suspect it will be quite good off-road as well, perhaps even very good, just a couple of inches of sidewall short of great, with some minor modifications (beefier tires and some underbody protection.) That's all I need. Sure, I'd like 2 or 3 specialized cars in my garage instead, but I only have room - and money - for one.

To be eligible for the Motortrend award, a car must be new or substantially redesigned for the model year in consideration. Other than the ones listed above, that takes every other SUVs out of contention. Last year, the Kia Telluride was their SUV of the year. This year it's the Defender. I am willing to wager money that the Bronco is a lock for next year, because the internet has decided that the Bronco will be the most incredible, God-given gift to SUVs ever to grace the face of this planet. As a matter of fact, they will probably be forced to give away two awards, one for the Bronco and one for the Bronco Sport, or there's gonna be trouble.

Can we at least agree that MotorTrend seems to be trending in the right direction?

 

[discostew]

I think it's a little bit better than "okay at everything, great at nothing". I can tell you that it's an absolute pleasure to drive and a blast on the road - definitely so with the P400 engine - and from the little I have seen so far, I suspect it will be quite good off-road as well, perhaps even very good, just a couple of inches of sidewall short of great, with some minor modifications (beefier tires and some underbody protection.) That's all I need. Sure, I'd like 2 or 3 specialized cars in my garage instead, but I only have room - and money - for one.

To be eligible for the Motortrend award, a car must be new or substantially redesigned for the model year in consideration. Other than the ones listed above, that takes every other SUVs out of contention. Last year, the Kia Telluride was their SUV of the year. This year it's the Defender. I am willing to wager money that the Bronco is a lock for next year, because the internet has decided that the Bronco will be the most incredible, God-given gift to SUVs ever to grace the face of this planet. As a matter of fact, they will probably be forced to give away two awards, one for the Bronco and one for the Bronco Sport, or there's gonna be trouble.

Can we at least agree that MotorTrend seems to be trending in the right direction?

Keep in mind that most of these guys have never driven a new Defender or a Bronco. After working with and driving it for a few months I like it. I wouldn't consider this a luxury vehicle at all. I also agree with Jymmiejams that the strength of a straight axle truck is awesome.
I look at this truck as a daily driver. It's a solid truck built on the chassis system that's been holding up way better than the older vehicles. At 80K this platform still feels great when driving.
A lot of these guys still prefer the distributor engines because they understand them. I prefer GEMS engines because they don't have all the ignition system failures. My argument would be that you don't need to understand a GEMS ignition system cause your probably never going to have to fix it.
I'm guessing it's the technology that makes these guys hate it. That and the fact that they can't buy one for 25 grand.

 

[mgreenspan]

I like modern technology. Had the pleasure of flying Mario Andretti for a little over a week all over Europe and the Middle East and asked him if he likes old or new cars. Answer was new cars because of the tech and that they’re performance is better. I love old planes, but new ones are superior. I want new, but not 10 year old tech hocked as new in a different package with questionable design features for $80k. The Bronco offers that. Agree to disagree I guess.

 

[fishEH]

$80k and you wouldn't consider it a luxury vehicle!? What the heck is it then, because it's not a serious off roader and it's not a sports car. Sounds like Jimmy hit it on the head. Jack of all trades, master at none.

Keep in mind that most of these guys have never driven a new Defender or a Bronco. After working with and driving it for a few months I like it. I wouldn't consider this a luxury vehicle at all. I also agree with Jymmiejams that the strength of a straight axle truck is awesome.
I look at this truck as a daily driver. It's a solid truck built on the chassis system that's been holding up way better than the older vehicles. At 80K this platform still feels great when driving.
A lot of these guys still prefer the distributor engines because they understand them. I prefer GEMS engines because they don't have all the ignition system failures. My argument would be that you don't need to understand a GEMS ignition system cause your probably never going to have to fix it.
I'm guessing it's the technology that makes these guys hate it. That and the fact that they can't buy one for 25 grand.

 

[discostew]

I like modern technology. Had the pleasure of flying Mario Andretti for a little over a week all over Europe and the Middle East and asked him if he likes old or new cars. Answer was new cars because of the tech and that they’re performance is better. I love old planes, but new ones are superior. I want new, but not 10 year old tech hocked as new in a different package with questionable design features for $80k. The Bronco offers that. Agree to disagree I guess.

What technology are you talking about with the new Bronco? It looks like the same basic equipment to me. I know it's been some years since Ford owned JLR. But all the fancy towing features are the same exact stuff. Ford claims it's there's and that's probably true, but it was designed by Land Rover engineers while Ford owned the company.
Both these vehicles look pretty much similar to me.

 

[discostew]

No I don't consider it a luxury vehicle. It can be had for 52k also pretty well set up.
Jack of all trades, like a daily driver you mean? That's why I want the thing. I'm just going to drive it.
We have a 110 white with steel wheels for 53. Air suspension.

 

[Blueboy]

I'm just going to drive it.

And that in general has been the Landy mantra. Drive it wherever you want to go. Across the US onto a technical Moab trail while carrying all your camping gear and then back. More luxury and gizmos now than I want yet the basic premise is still intact.

 

[ERover82]

And that in general has been the Discovery mantra. Drive it wherever you want to go. Across the US onto a technical Moab trail while carrying all your camping gear and then back. More luxury and gizmos now than I want yet the basic premise is still intact.

FTFY

 

[mgreenspan]

What technology are you talking about with the new Bronco? It looks like the same basic equipment to me. I know it's been some years since Ford owned JLR. But all the fancy towing features are the same exact stuff. Ford claims it's there's and that's probably true, but it was designed by Land Rover engineers while Ford owned the company.
Both these vehicles look pretty much similar to me.

I’m talking about the off-road modes, rear wheel braking for turns, a radio with modern stuff, functional a/c defrost heat, safety features, electronic sway disconnects.

 

[Blueboy]

FTFY

Thanks yet was thinking of any Rovers I currently or past owned in many Countries.
For sure on the Disco as have a D1 here and had a ‘95 D1 in Japan in 1996.

 

[ERover82]

Thanks yet was thinking of any Rovers I currently or past owned in many Countries.
For sure on the Disco as have a D1 here and had a ‘95 D1 in Japan in 1996.

Yeah, the originals were more about traversing any path on a property, facilitating hard work, and being easily repairable; the antiquated equivalent of modern UTVs. If one needed to perform work at distance, or the work was the distance, it assumed an exercise in one's resilience to discomfort. The formula for a Defender is unusual simplicity, capability, and repairability at the cost of urban priorities. The Pretender is not born of this formula, it is born of the Discovery formula. The Defender as an idea manufactured into reality by LR, is dead.

Can-Am produces something curiously reflective though:

2023 Can-Am Defender: Side-By-Side Vehicle for Work

Can-Am Defender: The most capable side-by-side vehicles ever made, built to get the job done. Discover our 2023 Can-Am Defender SxS lineup.

can-am.brp.com

 

[discostew]

I’m talking about the off-road modes, rear wheel braking for turns, a radio with modern stuff, functional a/c defrost heat, safety features, electronic sway disconnects.

so for the sake of this argument should I pretend the Defender doesn't have any of that stuff? I admit the detachable sway bars are pretty bad ass, but Defender has all that other stuff.