2020 Defender

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
There's lots of ways around it. Sell it as a kit car like the Ariel Atom. And don't give me "that's why Land Rover stopped selling the Defender" BS. A D2 is basically a more plush Defender.
You really think major automobile manufacturers can be successful by selling kit cars that try to skirt the EPA/DOT? Really?

Ask VW about trying to skirt the EPA.
 
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kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
There's lots of ways around it. Sell it as a kit car like the Ariel Atom. And don't give me "that's why Land Rover stopped selling the Defender" BS. A D2 is basically a more plush Defender.

Land Rover did sell the Defender as a kit car. That worked out so well you didn't even know about it. :ROFLMAO:

Cheers,

Kennith
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
I think Ken was alluding to the fact that you can buy every part from AB, including the frame, and build one from scratch in your garage.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
It was sold as a CKD (complete knock down) not available here

That and Santana are the highest profile examples, but Defenders were assembled in many nations on small scales. Obviously they had less strict requirements, but once you're in that pool, it doesn't really matter.

There was no rule preventing import into the United States and subsequent assembly for domestic sale. Sure, you'd have had to start a car company, but that's the business case. If you can't say it makes sense to start that company, you can't say with confidence enough interest is present to justify the import.

Even today Defenders are built on restored frames and now they can be directly imported and cleaned up.

How many of us have actually bought one?

Look, this new Defender may not be ideal from certain perspectives, but I wouldn't buy the previous model new if it was released today; not anywhere near inflation-adjusted MSRP, anyway. You never really got what you paid for in a Defender over here; an equivalent of $50,000 for a base model. For what?

What does that thing do that a stripped-out Discovery doesn't do better, that's not already easily accomplished by a Jeep?

When it comes down to brass tacks, the thing just plain looks cool.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
I think Ken was alluding to the fact that you can buy every part from AB, including the frame, and build one from scratch in your garage.

You certainly could, though it would end up being the same price as buying something from Icon. That's who I'd like to really give it a go again; they did one a while back on their own, but never took it to "production". It didn't become a standard Icon model.

Land Rover was indeed in the business of shipping parts kits to small assemblers all over the place; certainly for small military projects. They were just old, ratty contracts falling like dominoes.

I considered it myself before buying my Discovery. I could have bought a kit from a guy in Brazil. The writing was on the wall for years in regard to the Defender. I'd have liked to see it come back on a solid frame and all that, but they did need a departure.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,899
450
Darien Gap
You certainly could, though it would end up being the same price as buying something from Icon. That's who I'd like to really give it a go again; they did one a while back on their own, but never took it to "production". It didn't become a standard Icon model.

Land Rover was indeed in the business of shipping parts kits to small assemblers all over the place; certainly for small military projects. They were just old, ratty contracts falling like dominoes.

I considered it myself before buying my Discovery. I could have bought a kit from a guy in Brazil. The writing was on the wall for years in regard to the Defender. I'd have liked to see it come back on a solid frame and all that, but they did need a departure.

Cheers,

Kennith

Icon's owner doesn't like Rovers. It's clear if you listen to the Defender build video when he's bitching about dimensional tolerances and various quirks.
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,899
450
Darien Gap
What does that thing do that a stripped-out Discovery doesn't do better, that's not already easily accomplished by a Jeep?

I've had both. My D1 was very stripped out and completely utilitarian, but it never felt right. It wasn't meant to be. It struggled to run tires of any decent size, lacked a convertible top option, the body sat lower on the frame, the rounded shape and construction methods made it more difficult to modify, etc

My TJ was fun but the suspension geometry, inefficient interior space, over hood visibility, transfer case and fuel tank ground clearance were very disappointing.

Now, my D90 combines the best of both, but at a premium price, and with the requirement that you really must be willing to accept its quirks and limitations in the context of the modern world. I don't enjoy their exclusivity. I wish more people could get involved in the classic LR experience but the cost of entry is too high in several ways. We needed a new Defender, I'm just not sure the new model delivers on many positive aspects of the original.
 
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Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,205
459
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
Defenders were assembled in many nations on small scales.
Ours was built in Brasil because of the 100% tax imposed on import vehicles at least when we lived there. LR had a small factory that built them. It was pretty cool as they offered many options and colors. When we visited the plant they were very proud that theirs didn’t leak. 😁
 

SCSL

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2005
4,144
152
The only thing that made me laugh harder than the repeated emphasis on branded mud flaps was the silly little suitcase on the outside of vehicle and that chick taking out 4 plates and some kind of fruffery 😂😅🤣

 

Tugela

Well-known member
May 21, 2007
4,754
562
Seattle
The only thing that made me laugh harder than the repeated emphasis on branded mud flaps was the silly little suitcase on the outside of vehicle and that chick taking out 4 plates and some kind of fruffery

How is that any different from some wanker at an overland expo taking out his titanium plates to show off to some other wanker? As a general observation: serious dudes spend serious money to look like they go on serious trips and then criticize nonenthusiasts who are effectively doing the same thing: having a picnic. There is irony in that. To me, at least. Land Rover is at least being honest about who they think their target market is.
 

mgreenspan

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
4,723
130
Briggs's Back Yard
Well I’m going to buy one in a few years for use in the UK. Wife okayed me getting a TD5 Disco when I move there. I want to see what people do for aftermarket bumpers and such so I can pretend to be cool with a mall crawler. I enjoy wrenching on stuff but also enjoy not worrying about maintenance. This looks like a good option for future me living in the UK to go along side something built by them before 2004.
 

SCSL

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2005
4,144
152
How is that any different from some wanker at an overland expo taking out his titanium plates to show off to some other wanker?

It's not 🤷‍♂️

JLR just had a huge opportunity here to make a non-wanker vehicle. As I said before, if this was the D5 in lieu of that horrendous Explorer they rolled out, I would be cheering. It's just not a Defender and I can't understand, given the enduring popularity of the Wrangler and a few other swings at a more rugged vehicle taken by other manufacturers over the years, that JLR wouldn't see the huge opportunity they had here to re-roll a modern Defender. So now, we have a vehicle that cannibalizes and competes with other LR offerings rather than adding something new to the line-up while supporting the heritage that differentiates the brand.
 
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kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
How is that any different from some wanker at an overland expo taking out his titanium plates to show off to some other wanker? As a general observation: serious dudes spend serious money to look like they go on serious trips and then criticize nonenthusiasts who are effectively doing the same thing: having a picnic. There is irony in that. To me, at least. Land Rover is at least being honest about who they think their target market is.

It's no different at all. They're just a bunch of yuppies having a picnic.

Land Rover built the perfect car for the "overland" community, and I don't want to hear a single one of them complain about it.

The marketing materials are showing this thing doing more than they ever have or will.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with "glamping", but know who you are, at least. If that's your game though, you can't possibly know what's good for the rough stuff and what isn't. Australians are the worst when it comes to that nonsense, and they fall for any new gadget almost immediately.

Unfortunately for Land Rover, their customers are also hipsters. They want something that looks the part, because that's all they really care about in the end.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Eliot

Well-known member
Feb 4, 2008
736
47
Bozeman, MT
The only thing that made me laugh harder than the repeated emphasis on branded mud flaps was the silly little suitcase on the outside of vehicle and that chick taking out 4 plates and some kind of fruffery 😂😅🤣


Don't scratch the paint!
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
I've had both. My D1 was very stripped out and completely utilitarian, but it never felt right. It wasn't meant to be. It struggled to run tires of any decent size, lacked a convertible top option, the body sat lower on the frame, the rounded shape and construction methods made it more difficult to modify, etc

My TJ was fun but the suspension geometry, inefficient interior space, over hood visibility, transfer case and fuel tank ground clearance were very disappointing.

Now, my D90 combines the best of both, but at a premium price, and with the requirement that you really must be willing to accept its quirks and limitations in the context of the modern world. I don't enjoy their exclusivity. I wish more people could get involved in the classic LR experience but the cost of entry is too high in several ways. We needed a new Defender, I'm just not sure the new model delivers on many positive aspects of the original.

I hate driving Defenders in the middle of nowhere.

They have laughable cargo capacity, they rattle like mad, you can't keep the water out, you can't keep the BUGS out, they're not overly comfortable, and they're too narrow as a result of their origin. They do handle quite well, but not as well as a Discovery; certainly not as well as a DII.

All those deficits are considered personality, and indeed on camping trips there is a bit of charm; but if you actually take them on hundreds of miles of washboard they'll drive you batshit crazy. :ROFLMAO:

Indeed, the DII slaughters it on almost every count. The D1 comes pretty darn close, but falls a little short on cargo capacity; a subjective trade-off. More off-pavement ability, but less utility. It depends on where you expect to go and for how long. The Range Rover Classic is right in the middle of the two Discoveries unless you go LWB; and then you're getting damned close to the DII so far as utility is concerned. Both older models suffer in width, but at least they have cargo doors as wide as the cargo bay...

The one time you'll find a genuine advantage is crossing a ditch in a perpendicular manner or general rock-hopping; and you don't actually do that on an expedition. You avoid it at all cost. That vehicle has been living off it's image alone since the Series II; when nothing else would do the job.

I will maintain that the Defender is the mail-order "ditzy Russian trophy wife" of the garage. It's pretty, and it's dirty as fuck when you're feeling frisky, but that's about it.

The Defender makes the most sense in 130 High Cap trim. That's where it really begins to shine.

Cheers,

Kennith