2020 Defender

JackW

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2005
675
69
IDK, I never considered the RR as a off-roader, saw the Discovery I/II, LR3/4 as filling that niche.
I did a lot of off roading in my RRC - including many trips to Tellico. I've owned 5 different Range Rover Classics but my 1991 Hunter Edition had over 200,000 miles on it when I sold it and it had done a lot of off road trail riding in those miles. I liked it much better than my Discovery 1.
 
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DiscoHasBeen

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2016
1,171
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Indy
Look, given the fact that LR is seeking government loans to stay afloat, how has the business model of building luxury offroad vehicles work for them?
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,713
1,016
Northern Illinois
I'm sure it's a very capable vehicle, but to me, it's the how. I guess I'm old school but I don't want to get in a car and press a bunch of buttons and have it drive for me. And, all those touchscreen options come with a lot of complexity. That doesn't seem to lend itself to a vehicle that is built to go offroad. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought one of the selling points of LR's were
IDK, I never considered the RR as a off-roader, saw the Discovery I/II, LR3/4 as filling that niche. That said I do see modded RR's wheeling in tube vids so I'll give you that. Given LR is seeking a government loan to stay afloat how's that ( luxury off-roader) worked out for them?

You should think about brushing up on the history of the company. You say so much stupid shit I feel like it might help.
 
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DiscoHasBeen

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2016
1,171
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Indy
I'm not sure why their history matters. Only the here and now. But please take the time to explain it to me. I'm listening and willing to learn.

That said, the history as I see it was a company that produced utility vehicles started over time producing more mainstream vehicles to then more sophisticated/luxury leaning SUV's, then after the DII/LR3/4 completely abandoning their roots and becoming a company that produces luxury SUV's. Then introducing the Defender as an attempt to return to their roots somewhat and now needs a governmen
backed loan.

The name calling is fucking childish dude.
 

jymmiejamz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2004
6,008
361
35
Los Angeles, Ca
Look, given the fact that LR is seeking government loans to stay afloat, how has the business model of building luxury offroad vehicles work for them?

Have you considered that is maybe due to them diluting the brand too much? Or maybe delaying the release of the new Defender for so long building up anticipation for what many people consider a huge disappointment? Stopping production on the Defender was idiotic when the replacement is the Pretender. It's like if Porsche stopped production on the 911.

The new Defender is not an icon, it's just another retro remake like the FJ Cruiser.
 
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mgreenspan

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
4,723
130
Briggs's Back Yard
I disagree. They wanted to sell something like 100k Defenders per year by 2022. Entire Wrangler sales per year in the US are over 220k. Entire sales for LR are around 400k. They will not be selling 100k Defenders by 2022. My opinion is they are doing it wrong. My opinion is also that they plan to eliminate all of the LR offerings and make LR the Defender line. Defender Sport will replace Freelander, Defender will replace Discovery. McGovern just hates anything that isn’t his baby. Unfortunately, his baby was born in 2011, everyone thought it sucked, so he made a nice modern SUV that was mostly the same thing with a gimmicky back door, a sex toy for a gear shift, and awkward seating option packages.

I’ve wanted to like this for a lot of years coming. I just can’t see myself buying one over a new F-150 or the upcoming Bronco that already looks better.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,713
1,016
Northern Illinois
Every time Land Rover changes out one of its models this same conversations start up. All the purists start bitching and talking about how this new piece of shit will never be as good as his 20 year old rusted out shitbox he likes to bounce down a trail now and then.
Jymmiejams argument is based in real automotive knowledge. I respectfully disagree with him on the end result. But he brings up a valid argument.
Discohasbeen on the other hand wants to zero in on a request for some government loan. The whole world economy has come to a grinding stop. Lots of companies have had to get bailouts to keep a workforce employed while the worlds consumers put everything on hold for a while, especially buying high end vehicles. It's a temporary setback that has everything to do with outside economic pressure, not people's desire to buy this product.
I had to scramble to get those Defenders ready for the sales dept. People were waiting in the waiting room for there turn to see it, feel it, drive it. There is no shortage of People wanting to buy this truck.
For me, it's a chance to buy a new truck that does what I need. And not having to look high and low for a clean example of a vehicle with dissimilar metals causing it to rot from the inside out. Then spend hundreds of hours making it dependable and setting it up the way I want it. That whole process has become like pushing water uphill. This place was filled with people who had these trucks when there was still good examples available, and they weren't so far gone that you could get to a good truck more easily.
Just like I'm taking the wrappers off these 2020 Defenders, I was a 30 something young guy taking all the wrapping off the original Defenders, Disco 1, Disco 2, Range Rover Classic, P38's. I've been thru all this before.
So now that I've seen a couple and drove a couple I like it SO FARR, now we spend a year letting other people own them while I have a front row seat for any problems the vehicle has. Then I watch those issues get worked out, then I'm buying one if I still feel like it's a good truck.
I don't know what the general public will pay for them but I've stripped one down to just over 40 grand. The other thing I'm considering is a stripped down Silverado pickup truck. The price is very similar.
 

fishEH

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2009
6,929
203
Lake Villa, IL
I did a lot of off roading in my RRC - including many trips to Tellico. I've owned 5 different Range Rover Classics but my 1991 Hunter Edition had over 200,000 miles on it when I sold it and it had done a lot of off road trail riding in those miles. I liked it much better than my Discovery 1.
Can you explain that? It's the same truck with different seats and dash.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,713
1,016
Northern Illinois
Can you explain that? It's the same truck with different seats and dash.
I feel like the balance in the Range Rover classic was a little better. I think the Borg Warner T case makes the Drivetrain a little more capable.
When a Classic gets a little loose it feels like I can keep it pointed in the right direction. From the seat of the pants I feel like it pivots on a very well defined center of mass. But not on the long wheel base trucks.
 
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JackW

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2005
675
69
Can you explain that? It's the same truck with different seats and dash.

It just felt better as a road vehicle which is how I used it primarily, plus the rear wheel well openings are shaped better for the 245/75R16 tires I ran on the Range Rover - Discovery 1's need a little trimming at the back of the rear wheel opening. I had custom springs made to lift mine about 1" and the cloth seats in the Range Rover were more comfortable. We drove home from upstate New York in one long 18 hour, 1000 mile day in the Range Rover one winter. There was a snowstorm coming in so we left very early to outrun it and it chased us all the way to Virginia. The viscous clutch worked better in snow and wet than the Discovery T-case.

Off road I just felt more confident in the Range Rover, I guess the several hundred thousand of miles seat time I have in them just makes them more familiar.

hunter.jpg
 
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mgreenspan

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
4,723
130
Briggs's Back Yard
I don't know what the general public will pay for them but I've stripped one down to just over 40 grand. The other thing I'm considering is a stripped down Silverado pickup truck. The price is very similar.
I’m right there with you, just over $40k I’d be in more than likely. I can’t justify the actual public price.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,713
1,016
Northern Illinois
I’m right there with you, just over $40k I’d be in more than likely. I can’t justify the actual public price.
I probably only save about 3 grand, maybe more like 2. The only thing I added is upgraded audio and a cold climate package. I'll keep it in my own lane, I'll watch my own blind spots, I'm good with just a regular old mirror(no 1700 camera and diplay), I'll watch that I don't run into someone with my cruse control. Steel springs and steel wheels. Going to order it with the most common tires and turn them into parts, get some good tires.

You can't order it like that till fall. Right now the only 90's will be what they call First Edition trucks. That really is just a bunch of popular options at a slightly discounted price. But still pushing 60 grand. I too am not in at that price.
 
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Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,212
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Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
I probably only save about 3 grand, maybe more like 2. The only thing I added is upgraded audio and a cold climate package. I'll keep it in my own lane, I'll watch my own blind spots, I'm good with just a regular old mirror(no 1700 camera and diplay), I'll watch that I don't run into someone with my cruse control. Steel springs and steel wheels. Going to order it with the most common tires and turn them into parts, get some good tires.

You can't order it like that till fall. Right now the only 90's will be what they call First Edition trucks. That really is just a bunch of popular options at a slightly discounted price. But still pushing 60 grand. I too am not in at that price.
Yep.
And hopefully it will be pretty quick to get one on order the way you want.
 

DiscoHasBeen

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2016
1,171
262
Indy
I know it's not apples to apples (70k vs 40k) but LR and Ford have decided to resurrect icons from their past. It seems that LR has chosen to go with a variation of their lineup. Ford seems to be introducing something completely different from anything in their lineup and really going back to the roots of the Bronco. It will be interesting to see how it turns out.
 

DiscoHasBeen

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2016
1,171
262
Indy
What name calling? I just pointed out how you like to say stupid shit.

I'm not going to debate a 12-year-old, or an adult who conducts himself like one. I can only assume given your conduct here and the ability to afford a vehicle in the LR price range you're a member of the lucky sperm club?