'98 D1 Crank / Intermittent no start with clicking relay behind glove box

latarheel

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2011
183
4
AZ
I bought this 50th Anniversary edition LSE with AEL because it was in good physical shape and already had a 2" lift and sliders and the PO said he had issues starting in Park or Neutral and finally it stopped starting at all and the wife wanted it out of the driveway and gone so I picked it up in Columbia, SC, towed it to western NC and had a local mechanic who owned an RRC check it out. He replaced the CPS but could not get it to run and finally gave up when some tweakers cut the cats off. I have a '96 D1 trail truck in AZ with a great independent shop with long experience in Land Rovers so had it shipped to AZ for more trouble shooting. Inititally, it was bad shielding on the CPS wire loom shorting and the check engine light came back on at ignition. Still, intermittent start continued and the mechanic identified a loose retaining ring on the flywheel and tightened that up which seemed to fix the issue until it would not start at random intervals. ECU's were also swapped (thanks Will) and no change so back to the original ECU. When it wont start, there is a yellow fan relay behind the glove box that starts clicking in position II. Before I drop more $ on this truck, I thought I would get some input from the brain trust here as my mechanic is Land Rover master certified and does most of the work here in Phoenix on vintage Land Rover's so he's not ready to throw in the towel yet but clearly stumped. what say all of you?
 
Last edited:

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,713
1,016
Northern Illinois
Because that relay is clicking I would be checking that Battery voltage is the same in all the fuses. I’m thinking ign switch. Like it’s not fully powering up all the circuits all the time. Then likewise check the grounds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LRDONE

latarheel

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2011
183
4
AZ
When to the garage today at lunch and fan relay has been replaced and seems to be working properly. Started it a few times and it ran perfectly but mechanic has been stranded a few times driving on lunch break and had to wait for it to cool down. Once had to wait three days before it woudl start again. Once fixed, I will drive it back to NC over the holidays but its not road worthy just yet.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,713
1,016
Northern Illinois
Fuel Temp Sensor on the Fuel rail if faulty can cause a no start condition when the engine is warm.
I think it could cause a no start. Usually that makes the fuel trim stay very rich. The coolant temp reading stays cold and the fuel temp reading becomes implausible
 

Tedlou

Well-known member
Jun 30, 2004
209
6
64
Reading, Pa
My son's 98 LSE had a similar issue that started last summer, intermittently - after the truck warmed up, it would not start and threw an occasional P0171 code. We searched for cracked vacuum lines and replaced the Oxygen sensor but no relief. So, we checked the fuel pressure and it was ~ 18 psi. Doing some research here on DiscoWeb we learned a fuel pump for a 1996 Chevy Impala works in the 98 Discovery LSE with AEL - replaced the fuel pump with this one last summer - fuel pressure came up to 36 psi and have had no issues since. The truck has more "get up and go" too... At the very least, I would check the fuel pressure when it doesn't want to start. Good luck!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: latarheel

best4x4

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2015
595
72
Beaumont, TX
I am working on a 95 D1 from hell and although it's a 14CUX vs GEMS it still has the same sensor. This 95 ran like crap so the Chinese dizzy was yanked out and a good OEM dizzy was installed. It fired up, and I let it run to set timing. Shut it off and would not restart and smelled like it was flooded. Checked the LCD and it actually had a #14 fault stored. Coolant Temp/Fuel Temp Sensor fault. Just for kicks I slapped in another 14CUX ECU and just by turning the engine over a few times it also popped a #14 fault code (engine was still warm). I had a spare sensor, swapped it out and the 95 started right up, #14 fault has never come back, and no more hot start issues with it.

GEMS would report it differently but it would be reporting the same basic thing. Just something to check as in all my years I have honestly never changed out that sensor as it usually ended up a wiring/plug issue vs sensor. But this 95 certainly had a dead one and would refuse to restart after the engine was warmed up.
 

latarheel

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2011
183
4
AZ
When to the garage today at lunch and fan relay has been replaced and seems to be working properly. Started it a few times and it ran perfectly but mechanic has been stranded a few times driving on lunch break and had to wait for it to cool down. Once had to wait three days before it woudl start again. Once fixed, I will drive it back to NC over the holidays but its not road worthy just yet.

When to the garage today at lunch and fan relay has been replaced and seems to be working properly. Started it a few times and it ran perfectly but mechanic has been stranded a few times driving on lunch break and had to wait for it to cool down. Once had to wait three days before it woudl start again. Once fixed, I will drive it back to NC over the holidays but its not road worthy just yet.

clicking relay / crank no start
 

latarheel

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2011
183
4
AZ
picked up the truck last friday and everything seemed ok; engine seemed fine until it warmed up and started ticking badly , almost like a valve was stuck so I added some seafoam ; by sunday am, I had a CEL light come on and then it woudln't fire up anymore but started this clicking which it was doing before at the garage, the same yellow relay. The fix attempted by the garage was to add a ground from the ECU to the frame and everything seemed to be sorted until now. Its going on a AAA flatbed tomorrow back to the garage to get sorted. I'm hoping a pack rat hasnt chewed the harness but the no start issue was why the PO sold it so here I am. It has the mechanics baffled and they are experts at this so I need to get it sorted soon before It turns into a $ pit and I have to bail on the project.
 

latarheel

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2011
183
4
AZ
When to the garage today at lunch and fan relay has been replaced and seems to be working properly. Started it a few times and it ran perfectly but mechanic has been stranded a few times driving on lunch break and had to wait for it to cool down. Once had to wait three days before it woudl start again. Once fixed, I will drive it back to NC over the holidays but its not road worthy just yet.
 

Attachments

  • 854FFD5F-D693-4CD4-8B76-D73EF648E64D.jpeg
    854FFD5F-D693-4CD4-8B76-D73EF648E64D.jpeg
    401.4 KB · Views: 7
  • Like
Reactions: terryjm1

special ed

Well-known member
Apr 11, 2012
184
115
Elsinore
You are dealing with something that is heat cycling. Getting hot and dropping out. #1 is typically crank sensor. You need to do basic tests first. Fuel pressure test when failed, spark test and a noid light to check for injector pulse when failed. With that you can isolate it down to the area of failure and go from there. Sometimes it comes down to elimination to get probable failure and then replace a common part or 2. i wouldnt go any further until you have those answers.
 

latarheel

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2011
183
4
AZ
You are dealing with something that is heat cycling. Getting hot and dropping out. #1 is typically crank sensor. You need to do basic tests first. Fuel pressure test when failed, spark test and a noid light to check for injector pulse when failed. With that you can isolate it down to the area of failure and go from there. Sometimes it comes down to elimination to get probable failure and then replace a common part or 2. i wouldnt go any further until you have those answers.
I’m not the one doing the work as I’ve exhausted my expertise. The shop in Scottsdale are Land Rover trained master mechanics and they’ve already tested all of those recommendations . I was hoping someone on the forum has seen this before. Crank position sensor has been replaced for instance
 

latarheel

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2011
183
4
AZ
I’m not the one doing the work as I’ve exhausted my expertise. The shop in Scottsdale are Land Rover trained master mechanics and they’ve already tested all of those recommendations . I was hoping someone on the forum has seen this before. Crank position sensor has been replaced for instance
Look at the embedded link to see what it’s doing in ignition position 2
 

special ed

Well-known member
Apr 11, 2012
184
115
Elsinore
When its down it is it dropping fuel or spark? Also i have seen failed ignition switches cause an issue like that. All spitballs in the dark.
 

Rangeroversurfer

Active member
Jan 16, 2013
40
13
Alaska
I bought this 50th Anniversary edition LSE with AEL becasue it was in good physical shape and already had a 2" lift and sliders and the PO said he had issues starting in Park or Neutral and finally it stopped starting at all and the wife wanted it out of the driveway and gone so I picked it up, towed it to western NC and had a local mechanic who owned an RRC check it out. He replaced the CPS but could not get it to run and finally gave up when some tweakers cut the cats off. I have a '96 D1 trail truck in AZ with a great independant shop with long experience in Land Rovers so had it shipped to AZ for more trouble shooting. Inititally, it was bad shielding on the CPS wire loom shorting and the check engine light came back on at ignitioon. Still, intermiitent start continued and the mechanic identified a loose retaining ring on the flywheel and tightened that up which seemed to fix the issue until it would run hot and then not start until it had cooled. ECU's were also swapped (thanks Will) and no change so back to the original ECU. When it wont start, there is a yellow fan relay behind the glove box that starts clicking in position II. Before I drop more $ on this truck, I thought I would get some input from the brain trust here as my mechanic is Land Rover master certified and does most of the work here in Phoenix on vintage Land Rover's so he's not ready to throw in the towel yet but clearly stumped. what say all of you?
I have to contribute..........as I recently have gone thru this same thing........ I changed out the crank sensor, fuel temp sensor, coolant temp sensor, MAF Sensor, Stepper motor.........yeah......alot of stuff, and then.....one day it did not start at all..and guess what..it was the Fuel pump, apparently it was going out and well whenever the Rig would get to normal operating temp, run errands etc, it would sometimes note restart, act like it's flooded, I would wait 20-30 minutes for it to cool off and then restart. I now have a new Fuel pump and new fuel filter and it gets plenty of pressure and no more problems.. I hope this helps, but I had the same problem
 

latarheel

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2011
183
4
AZ
What’s was your pressure on the rail before replacement or was the fuel pump the next thing to try ?