All systems shutting down, inop instrument cluster, hazards, etc...

BDM

Well-known member
May 23, 2005
333
30
OR
Recently experienced an issue with my 08 LR3 w/ 145k on the clock that has been for the most part an amazingly reliable family rig. While driving, the radio flashed "all functions shutting down" and was coupled with hazards going on and off, instrument cluster shutting down, doors locking and unlocking, among other odd electrical behavior. Once I got it home, it would momentarily not start as well.

Knowing these vehicles tend to leak at the cowl and having a reputation for wiring faults at the passenger side floor board, that was my first thought. After pulling the seat and inspecting, it was completely dry and no sign of corroded wiring.

Stumped, I googled the symptoms and found on another forum that faulty soldering in the IC (instrument cluster) can cause these exact problems. The guys over at clusterfix.net came highly recommended and after a little more research on their website, found this:


  1. Intermittent or inoperative instrument cluster
  2. No communication with cluster via scan tool and setting of lost cluster communication U codes.
  3. No start condition with inoperative cluster with MSP CAN BUS problems
  4. HDC unavailable message coming up in message center
  5. Hazard lights turn off and on by themselves
  6. No turn signals
  7. Door locks locking and unlocking by themselves
  8. HVAC going off and on
  9. Misc. warning lamps illuminated
  10. Error Messages appearing on center display screen
  11. No data on display screen
  12. Using trip button affecting cluster operation
Send them my cluster 3 day and it came back just before the weekend with no problems. It was about 10min to take out the cluster and 10min to put it back in. Total cost was $349 and all the problems are completely gone. From what I understand, dealer cost would be close to $1500 for a new cluster and labor.

Thought this might help others who may have had this experience and save a little $ and time.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,706
1,015
Northern Illinois
That's awesome. I'm calling those guys. I've been fighting that exact problem since about '08. When that shit goes bad it's really hard to figure out. The cluster is the gateway on those trucks
 
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Gnomad

Member
Nov 12, 2018
5
2
Michiagn
does anybody know what soldering may be involved? I've got the same thing going on with my LR3, and Dr Google points to this as the issue. I'm also going to clean the CJB behind the battery and check under the sill plate, just to be sure.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,706
1,015
Northern Illinois
You have a med speed can issue. could be the cluster, could be a lot of things. I would google CAN network issues and learn how to make some measurements on the CAN network. I'm not sure it fixed his car. that problem can be so intermittent you think you fixed it.

The med speed can is in the diagnostic connector on pins 3 and 11. I usually disconnect the pos. battery cable and start measuring from the diagnostic connector. should have 60 ohms between the two. If you have 120 ohms the circuit has an open and only one of your terminating resisters is in the circuit. You can also check the voltage on each one of thos pins in the diagnostic connector with the car running. you should have roughly 2.3 and 2.6 volts. one will be a little higher than the other. It's best to measure that with a scope. because if they go to 2.5 volts on each wire that is a condition called awake at idle. the instrument cluster is the only thing I have ever seen do that. But by no means is the instrument cluster the only thing that can take down your network.
 
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BDM

Well-known member
May 23, 2005
333
30
OR
You have a med speed can issue. could be the cluster, could be a lot of things. I would google CAN network issues and learn how to make some measurements on the CAN network. I'm not sure it fixed his car. that problem can be so intermittent you think you fixed it.

The med speed can is in the diagnostic connector on pins 3 and 11. I usually disconnect the pos. battery cable and start measuring from the diagnostic connector. should have 60 ohms between the two. If you have 120 ohms the circuit has an open and only one of your terminating resisters is in the circuit. You can also check the voltage on each one of thos pins in the diagnostic connector with the car running. you should have roughly 2.3 and 2.6 volts. one will be a little higher than the other. It's best to measure that with a scope. because if they go to 2.5 volts on each wire that is a condition called awake at idle. the instrument cluster is the only thing I have ever seen do that. But by no means is the instrument cluster the only thing that can take down your network.

That's a bit disheartening but understandable. There's alot of electronics on this cars. That said, driving it for the last couple months and so far so good.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,706
1,015
Northern Illinois
That's a bit disheartening but understandable. There's alot of electronics on this cars. That said, driving it for the last couple months and so far so good.
I couldn't remember if it was you that or somwone else that told me this didn't fix his truck. If your good after a few months your truck is fixed. It's just a really difficult problem to run down. Not always the instrument cluster, but getting more common. At the cost you said they charged you it's worth trying it first in my opinion.
 
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Gnomad

Member
Nov 12, 2018
5
2
Michiagn
I had a look though my rig the other day, cleaned up the connectors at the TC and CJB, put a bit of anti-oxidant grease on the pins. Removed the cluster, decided that randomly soldering or resoldering SMD's without obvious signs of trouble was a bad idea, but did dab some deoxit on those pins too.
Now the fun part, found that the sill on the right side was completely full of water. Obviously I need to sort those sunroof drains, I removed the water and dried things out as best I could. I couldn't see any obvious splices in the harnesses.
I haven't tried the tests you suggested but that's good information to know, especially if there is a failure to proceed.
The LR3 did fire right up after I worked on it, but it's done that before.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,706
1,015
Northern Illinois
It helps to have a good fault code list of the complete vehicle. This is one of those faults that your going to need some things the average DIY guy doesn't have. A good meter will get you far, but at some point on this type of job you need to put the meter down and go for a scope. The 2.3 2.6 voltage readings on those two wires with the engine running is an average of many peaks and valleys you would see on a scope. Te 2.5 volts on both lines I called awake but at idle is a straight line on a scope, that's really the only way to know your looking at an awake but at idle condition. But if all you have is a meter then I would trust that that's whats going on I suppose.

I only wanted to mention it because I've seen lots of guys pull the trigger on that expensive instrument cluster and been wrong. But I will say that at the cost these guys are fixing it for, it would be worth trying it. But just understand your throwing a dart.
 

Gnomad

Member
Nov 12, 2018
5
2
Michiagn
I should be able to find a scope fairly easily, should have one anyways for my ham radio adventures. The gap gave me a long list of U codes, and checking the voltage and terminations is good information.
My concern is trying to narrow down the problem with any kind of certainty. I've had 3 good starts since I went though those connectors, but all of those were at home, not 10 miles away, 100 miles away or 1000 miles away.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,706
1,015
Northern Illinois
Think of a U code as a it's not me code. The body controller will store a U code for the instrument cluster. It's basically saying it's U dude, I'm fine. The other codes your going to see are invalid data faults. All that means is the module who's supplying info to another module has a fault code in it. So if you have an O2 sensor fault. The trans will probably have an invalid data fault stored for The Engine controller.

One thing I should point out that will make it more likely your dealing with a cluster problem. When I see a normal old coms failure like a short. Thats the best one to find. A dead short doesn't move and you can start unplugging connectors and pretty quickly isolate your short into a few areas. Even half the car is progress. But when you have a fault like that the codes usually pretty much the same all the time. Everybody has a U code for Park Brake for an example. Now if you had an intermittent failure like yours you clear the codes and it always comes back the same old way. Everybody throwing U codes for park brake.

When it's a cluster in my experience the codes that restore after clearing would make you think it's a whole different car. It's like a fucking grab bag of faults.Almost never an identical list. The reason the cluster will fuck up all these systems is that it's the Gateway on this system. So what that means is it's the Gateways job to let messages from the high speed can network cross over to the med speed and vise versa. An example would be that the climate control needs to know what the coolant temp is. Climate control doesn't have a coolant temp sensor on this car, it gets its coolant temp data from engine management on a different network.
 

Gnomad

Member
Nov 12, 2018
5
2
Michiagn
Discostew-I replaced the cluster and it's been 2 weeks without symptoms or unusual codes, so thanks for your advice!

So when I replaced the cluster, you can get a file from Gap to keep your mileage, I wasn't sure if I needed it to let the LR3 learn the correct VIN but as it turns out, there is a workaround for those interested. I replaced the cluster, did the IPC flash that was already in the Gap, tried to start the beast and nothing. The trick is to leave it on for a minute, then turn off for one minute, then back on for a minute. It took 3 cycles to get the LR3 comfortable with the new used from Ebay IPC but it did start and never looked back. The mileage is off so I will make sure the new owners, if I ever do sell it, know the mileage has been changed.

One other note, you need to have the correct IPC. My LR3 is a 2008, I tried the 2006-2006 IPC and it doesn't work. Noted for those who will have this same trouble, and hopefully find the ansers you need.
 
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