Anyone using a Detroit in front?

[kid4lyf]

I've always been a fan of Detroit rear/ARB front combo (Real Detroit, not TT) but started really thinking about it.
An ARB is basically a spool when locked. Both sides turn identically, regardless. This makes it a bitch to steer while locked and is why I've always opined that a selectable locker is a necessity in the front.
A Detroit, however, allows either wheel to "overdrive". IOW, while going around a corner, the outside wheel can spin faster than the inside is being driven.

I'm just wondering if this would make the Detroit a good candidate for front axle use on a daily driver.

Please don't jump in with a bunch of second hand opinions, I'm looking for actual first hand experience.

Has anyone used a real automatic locker (Detroit or any of the lunchbox lockers that work the same way) in the front of a Disco and how is it for daily driving?

 

[Nomar]

I think you should do it.

 

[kid4lyf]

Please don't jump in with a bunch of second hand opinions, I'm looking for actual first hand experience.

I think you should do it.

Well, that didn't take long.

 

[Nomar]

Was that a second hand opinion? I dont think so. I merely said you should do it. Give it a try and report back
Oh, and Brad, I dont think you'll find anyone here running a Detroit in front so there isn't likely to be any firsthand experience.

 

[Mongo]

You could try and ask on Pirate...you CAN'T use a detroit LOCKER in the front of a full time 4wd truck because it won't unlock when you try and turn...and seeing how you don't understand basic steering physic's (or the fact that just because someone doesn't do it, doesn't mean that they don't know what they are taking about), I stole this from GBR sites...

"One major disadvantage of a fully locked front diff, whether fully selectable or automatic, is the inability to steer or the effort required to steer. Consider this - you are negotiating a very difficult and highly technical section of trail with a sharp turn somewhere in it. Your options are 1) try to remember to unlock your front diff at just the right time hoping that there isn't too much preload on your axle components and that your diff actually unlocks because if it does't it may require you to stop to do so. 2) the other option is to try to muscle your steering around as required. The problem with this option is that if you are not successful you need to stop, unlock your diff, backup slightly, steer, relock diff and proceed. Oftentimes, if the turn is not too sharp, you can successfully negotiate the turn but you will put a tremendous amount of stress on your front end components, particularly if you have power steering, hence risking the possibility of a catastophic failure of these components. Personally when I'm negotiating a very difficult and highly technical section of trail, I like to concentrate on picking and maintaining my line and using just the right amount of momentum to successfully negotiate the trail. A Trutrac allows you to concentrate on your driving!

I figured seeing how I have a second opinion, I'd let an expert explain it...

 

[sven]

Maybe you should call Eaton and see if they recommend a Detroit on the front axle of a dailydriver. I bet they dont recommend it

Or check their website..."Can Detroit Locker be used in the front axles?
Yes they can, but you must have lock out hubs and they MUST be unlocked for on- road driving because of steering issues."

 

[Mongo]

and unlocked off-road everytime you want to turn....trust me,it's something that you don't want to do...



























oh, wait, that's a second opinion...

 

[kid4lyf]

You could try and ask on Pirate...you CAN'T use a detroit LOCKER in the front of a full time 4wd truck because it won't unlock when you try and turn...and seeing how you don't understand basic steering physic's (or the fact that just because someone doesn't do it, doesn't mean that they don't know what they are taking about), I stole this from GBR sites...

"One major disadvantage of a fully locked front diff, whether fully selectable or automatic, is the inability to steer or the effort required to steer. Consider this - you are negotiating a very difficult and highly technical section of trail with a sharp turn somewhere in it. Your options are 1) try to remember to unlock your front diff at just the right time hoping that there isn't too much preload on your axle components and that your diff actually unlocks because if it does't it may require you to stop to do so. 2) the other option is to try to muscle your steering around as required. The problem with this option is that if you are not successful you need to stop, unlock your diff, backup slightly, steer, relock diff and proceed. Oftentimes, if the turn is not too sharp, you can successfully negotiate the turn but you will put a tremendous amount of stress on your front end components, particularly if you have power steering, hence risking the possibility of a catastophic failure of these components. Personally when I'm negotiating a very difficult and highly technical section of trail, I like to concentrate on picking and maintaining my line and using just the right amount of momentum to successfully negotiate the trail. A Trutrac allows you to concentrate on your driving!

I figured seeing how I have a second opinion, I'd let an expert explain it...

I don't understand basic steering physics?! :rofl:
Do you understand basic reading fundamentals?
Try actually reading my post and come back if you have anything useful to contribute.
Oh, and you bring an expert who recommends a LS over lockers?! :rofl:
Perfect.

A Detroit WILL unlock when you turn because the outer wheel will be forced to roll at a higher rpm than the inner wheel is being driven. You know, basic steering physics stuff. (Call Detroit, they'll explain it to you)

So, to start over, I have used lockers for several years. I DO know how they work.
I'm asking about the on road manners from people who have tried them in this application.
If no one has tried it, I guess the thread'll die quietly, right?
I'm sorry, it really didn't sound like such a difficult question when I typed it.

 

[Mongo]

if you understand lockers, you wouldn't be asking this question...ok i'll edit my comment then:

It will unlock, but not until you start the turn. You'll be fighting the steering wheel to get it turn...which translates to if you need to make a quick turn, let's say to avoid accident, or something on the road, odds on that it won't unlock, keeping the wheels straight, and leaving you no control to avoid what's in front of you. Also, it could lock when coming out of a turn, forcing the steering to snap back straight before your out of the turn... this comes from several people who work on axles and diff's for a living.

I still think you should ask the guy's on Pirate what they think...

 

[kid4lyf]

if you understand lockers, you wouldn't be asking this question...

What part of how a Detroit works do you not understand?
Imagine two ratchets working side by side in line. When they turn left the left one spins the same speed as the drive mechanism and the right one spins freely (ratchets) because it's spinning faster than the drive is pushing the left.
If they turn right the same thing happens vice versa.
That's how a Detroit works. No wheel will ever go slower than the ring gear turns them but either side is free to go faster than the ring gear.
That's why a Detroit releases the outside wheel when turning.
That's also why a Detroit completely releases both wheels when you let off the gas.
Now, please explain what I'm missing here.

Jebus.

 

[Mongo]

You know what, ask the guy's from Detroit and post up thier response...it's how it was explained to me. Sorry, I must be stupid to listen to people who do this shit for a living and not make decisions based on something working flawlessly...

 

[Justin Kurosaki]

Jebus,
Take your theoretical "bench" detroit and put it in your truck and see what happens. It will bang like shit in a turn on the front. People complain about detroits onroad even in the back. Put them in the front and you are just asking for problems. Especially in a fulltime 4wd truck.

 

[kid4lyf]

You know what, ask the guy's from Detroit and post up thier response...it's how it was explained to me. Sorry, I must be stupid to listen to people who do this shit for a living and not make decisions based on something working flawlessly...

What's stupid is blindly following a path because it's common.
I talked to Detroit before I ever built my first trail rig. That's where my info came from. That's where I learned how they work. That isn't theory. It's reality.
I've been using Detroits for the rear ever since. I just always used selectables in the front due to the terrible steering issues they give because when locked, they're basically spools.
However, since a Detroit WILL unlock and allow the overdrive situation I described, I was reconsidering my thought process there.
That's a healthy thing to do occasionally.
You might try it some time.

make decisions based on something working flawlessly...

Yea, yea, yea, we all know you love your TT.
Some of us want to do stuff that requires a little more...
Let's just say, "nothing exceeds like excess."

 

[jasonmk12]

From a Trachtech vendor...

"For anyone considering performance driving around turns, the locker doesn't offer much."

This is basically what people are telling you, you just don't want to listen.

I have little to no experience with this stuff, so I'm sure you wont listen to me, but from all the tech articles I have read, it can be done, but its not recommended if you are going to be driving around on the road, mostly for trail rigs only.


JasonK

 

[p m]

A Detroit WILL unlock when you turn because the outer wheel will be forced to roll at a higher rpm than the inner wheel is being driven. You know, basic steering physics stuff. (Call Detroit, they'll explain it to you)

No, a Detroit will not unlock if your foot is on gas. Has nothing to do with "basic steering physics stuff."

 

[p m]

What part of how a Detroit works do you not understand?
Imagine two ratchets working side by side in line. When they turn left the left one spins the same speed as the drive mechanism and the right one spins freely (ratchets) because it's spinning faster than the drive is pushing the left.
If they turn right the same thing happens vice versa.
That's how a Detroit works.

No, that's not how a Detroit locker works. Look at the drawings.

 

[kid4lyf]

From Trachtech's website...

"For anyone considering performance driving around turns, the locker doesn't offer much."

This is basically what people are telling you, you just don't want to listen


Jason

Ding, ding, ding
Winner; stupidest post of the thread (and in this thread, that's saying something)
"PERFORMANCE DRIVING AROUND TURNS"?!
Who the fuck is talking about performance driving around turns.
No, for the record, I wouldn't recommend a locker for an SCCA race.
You got me there.

ONCE MORE (If you're too illiterate to read this please, please get someone to read it to you)

I ASKED FOR FIRST HAND ACCOUNTS.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE PLEASE START YOUR OWN FAWKING THREAD AND STAY OUT OF THIS ONE.

 

[jasonmk12]

Please don't jump in with a bunch of second hand opinions, I'm looking for actual first hand experience.

Has anyone used a real automatic locker (Detroit or any of the lunchbox lockers that work the same way) in the front of a Disco and how is it for daily driving?

As you can tell, not very much first hand experience, there might be a reason for that.....
Maybe its not a good idea, just maybe.

:victory:

 

[gil stevens]

damn man, your a dickhead.. if your going to ask a question, expect people are going to answer it. only a f*cking moron would put a detroit in the front of a disco. if you only expected that one moron to reply then you live in fantasy land.

 

[justinhaaga]

THE reason why Detriot makes the TT is for this exact purpose. In an AWD t-case the DT will not allow different rotation wheel spin. Mine dosen't on the rear, in tight spots in high unlocked I can squeal tires, but 90% of the time my power is going to the front because the TT I have is providing the less resistance.

For a street truck this won't work. A trail tuck, sure.