DI Brakes Just Not Good Enough
- Thread starter RBBailey
- Start date
Both of the calipers on my front brakes have been replaced - not sure if they are LR (probably not - was previous owner) and I have to say I wish my brakes worked better. They work - but just not great. Maybe that 110 swap is the way to go.
And, it has been a while but I think this is the same listing for the calipers I purchased.
Alternatively, Land Rover Direct has them as well with a number of brand options.
Part numbers - SEB500460 and SEB500470
If I was doing it again I would probably get the calipers from Land Rover Direct. I’d still buy the discs from Rock Auto, though.
Also, thinking on it a bit I had to buy new hard lines as the ones used on the D1 calipers dont fit. I was able to buy 2 new straight hard lines from O’Reilly Auto that worked well. I just had to do some careful bending.
Alternatively, Land Rover Direct has them as well with a number of brand options.
Part numbers - SEB500460 and SEB500470
If I was doing it again I would probably get the calipers from Land Rover Direct. I’d still buy the discs from Rock Auto, though.
Also, thinking on it a bit I had to buy new hard lines as the ones used on the D1 calipers dont fit. I was able to buy 2 new straight hard lines from O’Reilly Auto that worked well. I just had to do some careful bending.
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Thankfully LRdirect, Rockauto, and ebay provide great forum support, event support, and customer services in the states.
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Odd.... since I just bought the parts to "upgrade" my rear brakes on the 110 to Disco brakes with rotors! Winter project.
I am going to order SS lines for the Disco -- where can I get them where they won't cost 2x as much if I need them by the end of the week?
Also, pads. I'm sure I could get some pads someplace local, but where do you guys buy the originals?
Difference subject, but I'm tired of guessing with online parts, I need specifics! LOL.
I would recommend ditching the Disco rear brakes and go with the 110 style. The double pin retaining style is worth it by itself, the D1/RRC/D90 style is definitely inferior
I guessed that the NAS D90 was the same as the 110 fronts as everyone always said get the 110 setup. Everything fits perfect (NAS D90 calipers and vented discs).
And I agree on the 110 rears. Wish I had known about that option as I installed new D1 rear calipers the same time I did the upgrade on the front.
I got the stainless hoses from Rovers North. I think the brand was Goodrich. Spelling may be incorrect. They arrived very quickly.
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That is the total truth. Rovers North (and Zach in particular) was very helpful in making sure I got all the right parts. Big improvement in performance? Maybe. Priceless in ease of dealing with pad retention and replacement.
I must be missing something because I have a D2.
My brake install is super easy, monkey stupid.
I have thought about upgrading to a larger brake.....D110 on a D2????
So I'm confused about your comments on the 110 brakes being better than the DI brakes. My 110 has drums on the rear, I really don't want to put drums on my DI! LOL! I'm replacing those with Disco hubs and calipers and discs. Can't remember the part numbers. And I honestly can't remember if it was RRC/Disco hubs that I grabbed, or if it was Defender front hubs that I grabbed. I can't ever keep stuff like that straight, especially when there are several types for each model.
But about the Disco, I can't take on a conversion project at this time. I could put new pads in, and replace the hoses pretty quickly. So several people mentioned originals for the pads. Does anyone know if any of the standard parts places carry hoses that would fit? I hope to have this job done this week! This car is a daily driver, needs to happen quick.
But about the Disco, I can't take on a conversion project at this time. I could put new pads in, and replace the hoses pretty quickly. So several people mentioned originals for the pads. Does anyone know if any of the standard parts places carry hoses that would fit? I hope to have this job done this week! This car is a daily driver, needs to happen quick.
Ben, you have time to convert Salisbury drums with D1 calipers/pads but not to convert D1 front calipers/pads with 110 calipers/pads?
This is one of the easiest brake upgrades you can do on a D1. Don't need to touch the rotors if you don't want to.
The brake feeling is exactly how Nick (Tugela) described - softer pedal but the brakes grab very well.
There's also 110 rear caliper upgrade for a D1 - something I haven't done despite having parts forever - with main benefit being rear pads positively retained by pins, rather than diving uncontrollably into the rotor.
If you are in a hurry and dont want to take any chances, call Rovers North and you wont go wrong. They will know exactly what you need and ship quickly.
In my case I buy from Rovers North for those reasons and often buy from them just because they are such a good community member. However, if it is for a “get to it someday” project and for something like brake calipers and rotors, if the price is significantly higher from Rovers North, I bargain shop.
In my case I buy from Rovers North for those reasons and often buy from them just because they are such a good community member. However, if it is for a “get to it someday” project and for something like brake calipers and rotors, if the price is significantly higher from Rovers North, I bargain shop.
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Let's try to clear up your confusion on 110 brakes.
I'll repeat my earlier point because it's worth considering: if you haven't positively identified the source of your issue then there is no guarantee that replacing the calipers will solve your problem. As a general statement, installing D110 front calipers and pads on your D1 is a good idea, but unless you are certain that your current calipers are faulty and are the cause of your problem, you may find yourself in the same situation but with some nice new parts.
Also, parts vendors can get you new brake hoses (or anything, for that matter) fast, but you'll be paying expedited shipping. I didn't notice much difference in braking performance when I installed stainless braided brake lines, but it's possible the ones I replaced were in good shape. It was a pre-emptive choice.
- We're talking about front disc brakes from a Defender 110. That is the performance upgrade. Forget about the rear brakes for the time being and keep in mind the differences between the Land Rover 110 and the Defender 110. If you own one, you will appreciate this more than most people.
- Putting Defender 110 front calipers on a Disco 1 is a popular upgrade because the pistons are bigger, the pads are bigger, and the result is more stopping power. You get to keep your Disco rotors.
- The job is simple. Remove D1 calipers and hard pipes. Install D110 calipers - it's a direct fit, two bolts per caliper. Bend new hard brake pipes to connect the D110 calipers to the brake hoses. The Disco pipes will not fit. You can do this yourself with readily available specialized tools or get a shop to do it for you.
- Hook everything back up and bleed the system thoroughly.
- I have done this job twice and it only took me a couple hours, a little less the second time. And I am slow.
I'll repeat my earlier point because it's worth considering: if you haven't positively identified the source of your issue then there is no guarantee that replacing the calipers will solve your problem. As a general statement, installing D110 front calipers and pads on your D1 is a good idea, but unless you are certain that your current calipers are faulty and are the cause of your problem, you may find yourself in the same situation but with some nice new parts.
Also, parts vendors can get you new brake hoses (or anything, for that matter) fast, but you'll be paying expedited shipping. I didn't notice much difference in braking performance when I installed stainless braided brake lines, but it's possible the ones I replaced were in good shape. It was a pre-emptive choice.
Also, as A note of support to Rovers North, here are the part numbers with prices from Rovers North. This is for their Proline brand. When I originally purchased calipers I only recall the genuine LR items available from them, at over $650 each. I’d certainly go with them for these parts today.
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I think a large part of the confusion is that people keep calling it a "90" or "110" brake upgrade.
A 1998 Defender 90, 110, or 130 could have either vented or solid front rotors. A lot of people call the common conversion a "NAS 90" brake upgrade because the NAS 90 had vented rotors with larger calipers. The 110 had just as large(nearly) calipers with solid rotors. They are both an upgrade to the D1 front brakes.
The rear setup that I sell everyone is a 94-2002 110 caliper setup, which uses retaining pins rather than weak and insufficient cotter pins and is a little bit larger. Here are the axles I recently built for my 110(Vented front, 110 rear) on D1 axles
A 1998 Defender 90, 110, or 130 could have either vented or solid front rotors. A lot of people call the common conversion a "NAS 90" brake upgrade because the NAS 90 had vented rotors with larger calipers. The 110 had just as large(nearly) calipers with solid rotors. They are both an upgrade to the D1 front brakes.
The rear setup that I sell everyone is a 94-2002 110 caliper setup, which uses retaining pins rather than weak and insufficient cotter pins and is a little bit larger. Here are the axles I recently built for my 110(Vented front, 110 rear) on D1 axles
When I did the 110 rotors on the rear, I went with the Genuine pads. They were quiet but wore out a bit faster than I expected. I installed the Proline pads the second time, and they have squealed intermittently from the beginning (almost a year). I'm curious to see if there's a durability difference to justify the noise. Time will tell.
I always go with genuine pads, especially because it's basically a requirement to do the swap unless you can find the pins separately.
Defender Front Brake Upgrade Kit
New Rotors/Pads/Hardware and Calipers. 450.00 shipped CONUS. If its time to redo your front brakes on your D1 this is a great upgrade.
discoweb.org
This is the best explanation I have seen. I was confused as well when I ordered parts. Fortunately, it all worked out for me with what I received.
My brakes in my D1 were shot (seized calipers and rotten hoses) due to years of it being garaged and unused. Then I bought it and took a few more years to get everything else done. I have had several British built vehicles over the years and it always seems the brakes are undersized. I always found ways to get bigger calipers and vented discs on them. If you have to replace the brakes anyway on a D1, this is a no brainer improvement as the cost is almost the same as D1 parts. With the improved NAS 90 front brakes on the D1, they are actually really very good. I never drove it with the old brakes so I cant offer a comparison. For me the 110 rears is more about it just being a better design, less so as improved braking. If you are replacing them anyway, may as well go with the better design.
I assume we are talking the NAS 110, or Puma 110 rears being put onto a Disco front? or rear?
Time.... Well, put it this way. Normally, I have a 10 minute commute, so I leave at 6:30, get home at 3:30 if I'm lucky. I then have 3-4 hours of homework. So I save the weekends for car work, or projects needing to be done around the house. But I've been gone for the past 10 out of 12 weekends. I leave Friday from work, get back home Sunday evenings. This happens again this weekend. And luckily, the Defender has performed flawlessly for these weekends away -- it is a 6 hour drive over the pass and back, and has already been at 10 degrees with snow at 5000 feet a few times... no heat in the cab sucks though.
The Defender, and the Disco are both daily commuters, so to do any of the work I need to do on either of those vehicles, I need to use the Series as my daily, but it can't be raining because the roof leaks too much, and there is not heat or defrost.
Therefore, if I need to swap the brake hoses on the Disco, I'm realistically looking at a week of having the Disco sitting in the garage. It took me three days just to replace the master cylinder last month because I have to do the job overnight, or in intervals of 10-15 minutes per day.
In other words. I'm no good at carving out time to get the work done. Just doesn't happen right now. The Defender brake project has consisted of gathering parts over the past 6 months, nothing more. Once I get the heater/fan working in the Series, or figure out how to get the wheels off the Range Rover so I can replace the tires that are too old to drive on, I will start driving it to work, and park the Defender for the winter projects. (Wheels won't come off RRC because previous owner buggered up the lugs so badly that the fancy silver caps spin on the lugs by hand... so frustrating.)
Yes, my life is a basketcase of Rover goodness. I know, I know.