Engine Questions!

[Knightspirit]

OK engine experts - I just had a nice conversation with a local well respected machinist about getting my 4.0 block inspected etc. He has done 4 of these engines and he said that every one of them stripped out the head bolt threads when being re-assembled. He recommended that I do a steel insert for the head bolt threads on the block first thing - and then he could deck the block flat. I have never seen or heard of anyone having this problem - so I thought I would put it out there for any thoughts/experiences any of you have had with this! I guess there are kits for the insert? Anyone done this with their blocks and are there any tips I need to know? Thanks!

 

[discostew]

That’s weird. I don’t ever remember that happening to me. All the time on the new 5.0. But if you pay attention when you take those heads off you see that the threads came out on dissassembly

 

[Knightspirit]

That’s weird. I don’t ever remember that happening to me. All the time on the new 5.0. But if you pay attention when you take those heads off you see that the threads came out on dissassembly

I thought that was weird also - the threads on my block look clean. However - I would hate to have to unassemble the whole thing if they do blow and have the block re-decked. They are supposed to sit 1/32" below the deck - so maybe that wouldn't be necessary - but he recommended installing them prior to the machine work. The kit is $400. Maybe worth the peace of mind? Seems like it might be a solid upgrade.

 

[Knightspirit]

Here's the insert kit:

LAND ROVER/RANGE ROVER/JAGUAR HEAD BOLT THREAD REPAIR — NS300L™ PROFESSIONAL UNIVERSAL THREAD REPAIR SYSTEM SPECIALIZING IN HEAD BOLT THREAD REPAIRTOYOTA HEAD BOLT THREAD REPAIR KIT LAND ROVER/RANGE ROVER/JAGUAR HYUNDAI KIA 3.3/3.5/3.8L HEAD BOLT THR

97-2012 JAGUAR/LAND ROVER (WITH JAGUAR ENGINE) 4.0/4.2/4.4/5.0L M10x1.5 2010-2019 JAGUAR/LAND ROVER (WITH JAGUAR ENGINE) 3.0 V6/5.0 V8 M11x1.5 94-2004 LAND ROVER 3.9/4.0/4.2/4.6L ENGINE CODE “D” 7/16-14

www.huhnsolutions.com

 

[ukoffroad]

4 sets of head gaskets, never stripped one. I have broken bolts on the exhaust side.

 

[bovw]

Will Tillery has done 2 HG jobs for me, no stripped threads.

 

[Tugela]

In my vast experience of one entire head gasket job, I removed all bolts without stripping anything.

 

[p m]

Out of probably 8 or 10 HG jobs, not one stripped.

 

[discostew]

I’ve been working for Rover since the mid 90’s. I’ve done hundreds of head gasket jobs on this old stuff. Never had a problem like he’s describing. Always use new bolts, always blow the coolant out of the hole, and fully understand what 90 degrees looks like. Don’t do the 90 degrees and immediately do the second 90. You need to let the bolt rest before you stretch it the rest of the way.

 

[Knightspirit]

Great feedback on this - I thought it was a little odd that I have never heard of this being an issue with these engines - I will most likely skip the inserts and come back to it if I actually need to - which it sounds like I won't. This machinist and his friend both had trouble with this - but then they aren't rover guys - and probably didn't even have a copy of the manual etc. Who knows what they were doing to strip out the threads.

Good info on not stretching the bolts right away!

 

[discostew]

I think it's easy for people to get fooled by the fact that it almost feels like you pulled something out when the bolt is stretching. It gets easier to turn while that's happening. It's kind of exciting the first few times you do it. Just keep doing your 90 degree turn, don't stop or slow down.

The only time I remember a guy having a problem with these head bolts breaking when he was trying to torque them. The parts manager kind of thought it was weird that he kept coming up for more bolts. I asked the dope how much is 90 degrees? But that guy was a special kind of stupid.

 

[ERover82]

how much is 90 degrees?

That's pretty hot, but whether it's bearable depends on the humidity. Shouldn't pose any issues for a bolt.

 

[mearstrae]

I know it's a sore subject but, I like using ARP head studs on anything with aluminum heads and/or block. It takes a lot of the stress off the threads in the block, since you're not twisting at them. Also re-torquing them is possible, and they are re-usable. I think TTY bolts are a compromise between the engineers and the accountants...

 

[p m]

I know it's a sore subject but, I like using ARP head studs on anything with aluminum heads and/or block. It takes a lot of the stress off the threads in the block, since you're not twisting at them. Also re-torquing them is possible, and they are re-usable. I think TTY bolts are a compromise between the engineers and the accountants...

TTY bolts is nearly the only way to ensure tight tolerances on clamping force.
Of the ARP studs - how many users actually go back and re-torque the nuts?

 

[rovercanus]

TTY bolts is nearly the only way to ensure tight tolerances on clamping force.
Of the ARP studs - how many users actually go back and re-torque the nuts?

Me. Found they didn't need it.

 

[ERover82]

TTY bolts is nearly the only way to ensure tight tolerances on clamping force.
Of the ARP studs - how many users actually go back and re-torque the nuts?

Especially when you RTV the valve covers on. What a pain. No manufacturer is going to use a more expensive solution that requires a mechanic to tear the valve covers off later when quality TTY bolts work perfectly well.

 

[discostew]

Especially when you RTV the valve covers on. What a pain. No manufacturer is going to use a more expensive solution that requires a mechanic to tear the valve covers off later when quality TTY bolts work perfectly well.

There was a little 4cylinder General Motors was using back in the 80's that you had to go back in and retorque the cylinder heads after you ran it for a little while. That was a little overhead cam engine that was made in Brazil. It had a timing belt and we did a lot of those.

 

[rovercanus]

There was a little 4cylinder General Motors was using back in the 80's that you had to go back in and retorque the cylinder heads after you ran it for a little while. That was a little overhead cam engine that was made in Brazil. It had a timing belt and we did a lot of those.

I had one of those little 4 cylinders. They were known to spontaneously deconstruct themselves internally. They sucked.

 

[discostew]

I had one of those little 4 cylinders. They were known to spontaneously deconstruct themselves internally. They sucked.

Yeah they sucked. I can't remember what the displacement was. I think it was 1.8 or maybe 2.2 liter. The timing belt would let go and then the top end would get destroyed if I remember correctly.

 

[Swedjen2]

OK engine experts - I just had a nice conversation with a local well respected machinist about getting my 4.0 block inspected etc. He has done 4 of these engines and he said that every one of them stripped out the head bolt threads when being re-assembled. He recommended that I do a steel insert for the head bolt threads on the block first thing - and then he could deck the block flat. ...

The 4.6 I have needed a steel insert. Drivers side inside row. The engine was rebuilt and assembled around 150K by the P.O., a motorcycle mech. He had the block machined and top-hats installed at D&D. P.O. used ARP stud kit. I think the locating pin(s) for the head on D.S. were too high preventing the head from sealing on the gasket properly. Several stud nuts were on the loose side. Went back to stretch bolts. I don't know for sure if it was the block machining or P.O. assembly errors. Prolly the later since it was his first LR product. Naturally, I bought his mistakes. The "deal" was no deal, but when you get LR fever, rose-coloured glasses are the order of the day.