Get rid of 95 Dizzy and module and get aftermarket one?

[ozscott]

Hi all. Just had a 2.5 inch free breathing exhuast fitted to my 95 3.9 auto - sounds fantastic! I run either traditional petrol and Liquid Petrolium Gas. The problem is that on Petrol she goes well but LPG requires a very good spark - its intolerant of a half assed spark. Its very good down low on LPG but as the revs get beyond 3000rpm she declines fast. I have replaced ALL original components in the last 12 months with OE stuff - pick up coil, HEI ignition module, rotor button (just the other day), coil, leads, plugs etc. The cap was replaced 12 months and 10,000 miles ago. I have fuond that a new cap and rotor usually give her the grunt back on LPG when she loses it, and Im going to try a new cap today, but to replace rotor button and cap each year seems silly - it highlights that these systems only just put out enough spark to do the job and as soon as a component gets some wear there are problems.

The spark from the coil is blue and OK, but is nothing compared to say an American made Acel yellow coil.

I wonder if any one has ditched the old system and stuck in say a Mallery Dizzy with infra red pick up coil, inbuilt HEI ignition module and either all-in-one or external coil with a good result. Is it easy to replace the HEI Module and coil in an all in one unit?

Any assistance greatly appreciated fellas.

Cheers

 

[ptschram]

LOL, several of us have worked on this to try to fit a GM HEI to a Rover engine. There really isn't enough clearance on a serpentine belted engine due to the proximity of the power steering pump and the huge diameter of the HEI cap.

Some claim to have made it work, but I have yet to see pics.

What I have done-

 

[ozscott]

Thanks very much Paul - greatly appreciated mate. What do you reccomend I do for this old baby...new cap and rotor every 10,000 miles, and perhaps a bigger coil or is there an MSD dizzy I can use?


Cheers

 

[Paul Grant]

There's a Mallory that will work but it's not an HEI design.

 

[ptschram]

Summit or Jeg's (don't know how much help that is to you in Oz) lists distributors that will work. If you search, there was a gentleman here who found what he described as a direct fit Mallory (IIRC) distributor. Might be worth it to you to make a trip to summitracing.com or jegs.com and search for distributors that will fit a 3.5 l buick of early 60s vintage. There should be several, but they were too rich for my blood and my goal was water resistance, not ability to run other fuels or high performance.

PT

 

[ptschram]

http://discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27902

Has some references to the gentleman who has apparently put a Mallory in his Disco.

 

[Paul Grant]

I got mine from Summit a couple of years ago. Not a single problem since. I think it was around $300.

 

[ptschram]

Not a single problem since. I think it was around $300.

$300

That's a big problem for a cheap bastard like me!

 

[ozscott]

thanks very much fellas. It seems from the MSD catalogue that their HEI equipped Dizzy's have to run with an MSD Ignition...so price would be high and compatability low...

Im not sure what is best for the old girl now.

Cheers

 

[DennyDoler]

Check out ToddCo Suspensions and look at his ignition box. I put this on my 92' 3.9 and it really helped in a big way. It's a pretty easy install and cleans up the wiring and it's sealed against water.

Paul, I've got a 95' LWB in the front yard that has an HEI in it. I'll take some pics and post them for you.

 

[ozscott]

Thanks mate - i will have a look. I rang RPI Engineering in the UK - they do HP rover V8s. They want big money for reconditioned Lucas dizzy's with an A&R amplifier that will do dual fuel and give LPG a big advance... I can get just the amp (at about $350 AUD) but given the play in my Dizzy and the buggered vac advance an poor mech advance there is no point. If I got the kit its about $800 AUD including a set of Magnacores.

Cheers

 

[ptschram]

Check out ToddCo Suspensions and look at his ignition box. I put this on my 92' 3.9 and it really helped in a big way. It's a pretty easy install and cleans up the wiring and it's sealed against water.

Paul, I've got a 95' LWB in the front yard that has an HEI in it. I'll take some pics and post them for you.

I'm intensely interested in your HEI setup-as you might imagine!

As for the Toddco module, I suspect it is little more than a Ford or GM ignition amplifier. BTDT, have the posts on Pirate to show for it! The HEI amplifier makes a big difference on a Rover engine.

 

[Zarati]

OZ,
I did this on y 94' just 6-months ago. PT may be referring to me.
Basically here is the skinny. There are two Mallory Distributors that will drop right in. "Relative term" you Do have to drill the hole in the bottom for the Cam gear to attach to. Comes with a new pin but you have to measure your gear on the old Dizzy and put the old gear "Or buy a new one" and put it in the same spot. Cost me $20 at a Machine Shop to do it.

You can download the Mallory Catalog online and go to page 13, look under British Leyland and you'll find two dizzy's that will work
ALL V8/RH 215 Aluminum Block
(with 24° advance @ 3,200 rpm) - No Gear — — 4768901 — —
ALL V8/RH 215 Aluminum Block
(with 18° advance @ 3,400 rpm) - No Gear — — 4768902 — —

I got the one with 24Deg Advance at 3,200 RPM. I had slight pinging at WOT around 3,000 RPM so I put in a stiffer advance spring which moved my advance curve a little later. I may have also dialed my Max down to 22deg but I cant remember.

The beauty of this setup is.
All Optical so nothing to wear out.
Adjustable curves so you can tweak it later if you put in a CAM, etc.
Cheaper than an OEM Rebuilt unit but not by much. I got mine at Summit but by the time I had bought the Dizzy, Drilled the shaft at a Machine Shop, and purchased a High Output Coil the cost was close to that of a new unit.

BTW: I used Coil #21296 because its 50-state legal and apparently is better shielded for EFI Cars.
Tech Sheet 29216
Primary Resistance 0.7 ohms
Secondary Resistance 8.9K ohms
Maximum Voltage 51,000 volts

Also, as far as I can tell, this is the same Distributor that RPI Sells so it "Seems" they are happy with it also.

As for performance Gains, I cant say I noticed anything. But I suspect on a modified motor the adjustable advance curve would net you some gains, and the overall reliability should be much better.

HOpe that helps.

 

[ozscott]

Thanks very much mate- it certainly does help! Thats the beauty of this site is the sharing of info to keep these baby's going. I have been reflecting on the costs involved and the fact is that I cant expect to get away with not replacing a wearing part like the dizzy after so many miles. They dont go forever. Whilst a new Dizzy might be worth a quite a bit compared to what the vehicle is worth on the open market, I cant look at that...I have to buy the part and keep her going. I love the old bastard so I cant complain...

Cheers

 

[ozscott]

The Dizzy on the Mallory site with that number is a 3 wire. The original Lucas I have is 2 wire with exteneral Amplifier. I take it that the inbuilt amplifier causes the extra wire output...how is the mallory 3 wire wired up?

Cheers

 

[F-N Nuts]

kepe your factory distributer and just do the gm hei moduel bolted th a piece of alumnium so the heat is not buring up the module . make sure u have a good ground the the bolt that is going to the moduel. i have mine like that for 3 years . it is my back up ignition now . have mds distributer and msd off road box. but it is the cheepest up grade u can do. any questions just pm me.

 

[Zarati]

Oh Hell.
I dont remember how I wired it. That was way more than 12 Beers ago!
I dont remember it being an issue though. I thought maybe one went to each side of coil and one to ground. But I could be wrong.

Car is 3,000 miles away as I"m in Belize right now. But if you E-mail me in a month I can look and see. ;-)

Anyhow, I replaced mine as my Distributor acctually BROKE. So I was looking at $300 any way I looked at it. I decieded to try for something better. If I hand't of had to replace mine, I probably would not have done the "Upgrade". But when I break something, I always try to put something better in if I can. USUALLY I do but occasionally I go the wrong way.

I think this one was the right way. But probably not worht it as a stand alone "Upgrade".

l8r

Todd

 

[ozscott]

Thanks matey - yep that sounds about right - one to each side of the coil and an earth.

Cheers

 

[ozscott]

I have just read on the MSD site forum from their techies that they do not do an MSD Dizzy for a Rover V8 and that whilst some people say that the one for the Buick 215 will fit they are not sure. So it looks like Mallory.

Cheers

 

[DennyDoler]

I'm intensely interested in your HEI setup-as you might imagine!

As for the Toddco module, I suspect it is little more than a Ford or GM ignition amplifier. BTDT, have the posts on Pirate to show for it! The HEI amplifier makes a big difference on a Rover engine.

PT,

The HEI is very tight but with a little grinding on a couple of brackets and you're set. I don't know if it will fit a non-serpintine engine. As for the module, It's identical to a Duraspark. I think he figured out the wires and went with it. I figured it was worth it to me to pay for his R&D to get it right.