Ham Radio Questions

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
This winter I decided to work on my Ham license(s), so I've got a couple of questions for hams.

Licencing
After a week, I'm 80% through the Technician section on HamTestOnline. I should be done by the weekend.

I was planning on getting the General as well. The test in my area is 1st Thurs of the month, so I was targeting March. That gives me ~5 weeks. I don't have any doubts I'll be ready for the Tech/Gen by then.

My question is should I try to get my Extra as well? Is it worth it (see my Ham use objectives below)? If I have to take another month to study up on it, that's not a problem.

Equipment
I'm looking for Ham for using when I'm outdoors. I don't have to go far (< 20 miles) from my house and cell signal is zero. So this would predominately be for emergency use, but I may diddle around with it at home as well (monitoring some of the local EMS channels). Because of what I'm targeting it for, I'm thinking the dual band HTs are what I should be going for.

I've looked at the Yaesu FT-70DR, FT2DR, and the FT-270R.

The FT70 is pretty good - it's dual band, has digital capabilities and the price is good (~$225). The FT270 is rugged (submersible), is about the same price point, but is only 2m. The FT2DR is the Caddy of the three: dual monitor, digital, APRS/GPS, 2m/70cm band - but I'm really not a fan of the touch screen. Cost is ~$420 In fact, if I could find a used FT1XDR that would just about be ideal (I think).

I'm also thinking the Kenwood TH-D72A is a good option. I like the very good GPS and the capability of APRS. It too has dual channel monitoring and is 2m/70cm. It is analog - no digital. Price is ~$400.

I'm kind of leaning toward the Kenwood for the GPS/APRS because if it's just me out in the middle of no where, I'd like my friends/family to know where I am. The reviews on the Yaesu GPS is it is not very good, and like I said I'm not a fan of the touch screen. I also like that I can run the Kenwood at home while plugged in (and charge the battery); can't do that with the Yaesu (according to reviews).

I didn't really see any Icoms that fit what I'm looking for, and I don't want the cheap Chinese stuff.

So my questions:

1) Am I overthinking what I need/want? Just get a low cost 2m and be done? See what I need/want and buy later? (I'm not adverse to spending the $400-500 now vs $200 now and $500 later)

2) Is digital worth it (the Yaesu FT2D)? Or not (go with the Kenwood)?

3) Am I missing any other options?
 

p m

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 19, 2004
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La Jolla, CA
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Scott...

There are obvious limitations to any handheld radio. Mostly, output power, antenna, and very multi-function controls.
You want to achieve several goals with the same unit - it may work or it may not.

First, I don't know if TH-D72A is capable of supporting APRS position updates and simultaneous operation for communications. It would be amazing if it did, but the price point is borderline ridiculous.

Other than that, you don't want to use the same equipment for APRS and comms, believe me.

You can have your own APRS setup for about $100, give or take a few 20s:
- Buy a cheap Baofeng HT (about $30 to $50), Mobilinkd TNC2.2 controller ($64), a cable ($10), and use your own Android phone as a GPS using $5 APRSDroid software.
As an alternative - if the HT has VOX controls, you can skip TNC controller - an Android phone can function as one as long as transceiver is VOX-capable. You'll need the software and a cable (Amazon has one for $18).
You will need an external antenna - the rubber-ducky on handhelds is good for car-to-car communications within a few miles, but you can't count on having an APRS digipeater to always be within 2-5 miles from you. Count on $30 for a mag-mount dual-band antenna; if you plan on only running APRS on 2m band, a single-band antenna can be either cheaper or have a higher gain for the same amount of money (the same applies for a handheld - your options expand considerably).

Communications: you would be far better off with a vehicle-mounted single- or dual-band mobile unit than with a handheld, money-wise. Out of curiosity, a couple of years ago I bought a Chinese-made dual-band transceiver that fits on the palm of my hand (and I don't have large hands), and is rated at 50W VHF/40W UHF. The whole thing was ... hundred bucks. The unit worked fine out of the box - I keep it as a spare in case Yaesu FTM-10R gets wet or stolen; I would not, however, trust to run it at max power for any extended period of time. But even 20W is a lot more than 5W (that you _may_ get from a handheld when you power it from 12V source, more like 3W and dwindling rapidly running off its battery).
Once again, a good antenna is very important. You can even invest in an SWR meter to make sure all of your power goes out and not frying your transceiver's output stage.

Have fun!

Edit - oh, digital. Personally, I'd wait until Icom, Yaesu, and Kenwood duke it out and settle on one standard. Otherwise you may be very lonely in that five-or-ten-mile radius.
 
Jan 3, 2005
11,745
71
On Kennith's private island
Take the Tech, if you pass take the Gen, and if you pass take the extra. It's not additional cost and you can take all three the same day. If you fail, so what. It's a lot of information.

Peep the Kenwood TH-F7e. It's older but good and you can find them reasonable.
 

pdogg

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2005
1,216
29
Phoenix, AZ
Agreed on the comments made about HT's.. I tell people all the time to not make the HT your primary rig. As far as the license, the General will not get you much except for HF band, like 10M which you are unlikely to use in your use case.. I got mine, and never use it.

Buy a decent 2M radio with decent power and call it good.. learn to use it, program it... and go.. they can be had for just north of $100.

For my use case, I had a clear need for dual receive and that forced me into a much higher level radio, and I decided APRS was also important.. so I got the Yaesu FTM-350, which is now the 400 I believe..

As far as HT's go, buy a few cheap Baofengs to use around camp or whatever, and if you lose one or drop it.. no biggie..

Happy trails
 

p m

Administrator
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Apr 19, 2004
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La Jolla, CA
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Drillbit

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2005
5,943
1
Glasgow Ky
Sort of off topic but how seriously is licensing policed? If I bought some rig and had no license are the cops going to kick in my door?
 

pdogg

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2005
1,216
29
Phoenix, AZ
Sort of off topic but how seriously is licensing policed? If I bought some rig and had no license are the cops going to kick in my door?

No, especially on simplex frequencies; if you jump on repeaters, some moderators on there will ask you to identify (as per protocol) with your call..
 

Mongo

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2004
5,731
2
59
Sort of off topic but how seriously is licensing policed? If I bought some rig and had no license are the cops going to kick in my door?

just don't sell any fuel pumps via radio...


seriously, for occasional trail use, probably won't be a issue unless you run into a super geek with a 4x4

tech class is easy, couple hours of "pratice" and you'll memorize the answers. here's a link to the pratice exams:

https://hamexam.org
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
Thanks for the feedback. My thoughts below.

Scott...

There are obvious limitations to any handheld radio. Mostly, output power, antenna, and very multi-function controls.
You want to achieve several goals with the same unit - it may work or it may not.

Yep, I'm aware of the power limitations. But this is something that will go with me when I leave the truck and hike off trail - bird hunting, fly fishing, hiking, etc.

First, I don't know if TH-D72A is capable of supporting APRS position updates and simultaneous operation for communications. It would be amazing if it did, but the price point is borderline ridiculous.

Other than that, you don't want to use the same equipment for APRS and comms, believe me.
That was why I was interested in the Kenwood and the Yaesu RT2DR/RT1XDR - they have two separate transmit/receivers. I can APRS on one, and comms on the other, if needed.

I think this article covers what you were saying using the Kenwood? http://www.harpojaeger.com/2017/02/14/aprs-muting

It seems like it would do what I want.


You can have your own APRS setup for about $100, give or take a few 20s:

I see what you are saying. But if this is for a backpack - having everything in one package saves space/weight. If I buy a $200 HT then another $100...I'm at $300, so what's another $100 for simplicity???? That was my thinking.

As I get older, I like simpler for reliability. Of course the Kenwood isn't necessarily simple either.

Communications: you would be far better off with a vehicle-mounted single- or dual-band mobile unit than with a handheld, money-wise. Out of curiosity, a couple of years ago I bought a Chinese-made dual-band transceiver that fits on the palm of my hand (and I don't have large hands), and is rated at 50W VHF/40W UHF. The whole thing was ... hundred bucks. The unit worked fine out of the box - I keep it as a spare in case Yaesu FTM-10R gets wet or stolen; I would not, however, trust to run it at max power for any extended period of time. But even 20W is a lot more than 5W (that you _may_ get from a handheld when you power it from 12V source, more like 3W and dwindling rapidly running off its battery).

I agree. I really like the Yaesu FT-857D for all the reasons you cite (and more bands!), and the fact that it can be made portable. But then in "portable" mode its a load to carry. My objective is to have something fairly compact that goes in a pocket/backpack for in case the SHTF. If I was just going to be in/near a vehicle at all times, I'd get this one. Heck if I like ham and start doing it more as a hobby, I might just get as a home/truck station.

Once again, a good antenna is very important. You can even invest in an SWR meter to make sure all of your power goes out and not frying your transceiver's output stage.
I was planning on buying an new antenna for any of them. I've already got a SWR meter - bought one for a CB install at Radio Shack years ago for $5 - they were clearancing it.

Have fun!

Edit - oh, digital. Personally, I'd wait until Icom, Yaesu, and Kenwood duke it out and settle on one standard. Otherwise you may be very lonely in that five-or-ten-mile radius.
That's what I was thinking. I'm not sure I'd be missing much without it.
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
Take the Tech, if you pass take the Gen, and if you pass take the extra. It's not additional cost and you can take all three the same day. If you fail, so what. It's a lot of information.

Peep the Kenwood TH-F7e. It's older but good and you can find them reasonable.

That's what I was thinking - all at once.

Thanks for that tip. I'll take a look at it.
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
Agreed on the comments made about HT's.. I tell people all the time to not make the HT your primary rig. As far as the license, the General will not get you much except for HF band, like 10M which you are unlikely to use in your use case.. I got mine, and never use it.

Buy a decent 2M radio with decent power and call it good.. learn to use it, program it... and go.. they can be had for just north of $100.

For my use case, I had a clear need for dual receive and that forced me into a much higher level radio, and I decided APRS was also important.. so I got the Yaesu FTM-350, which is now the 400 I believe..

As far as HT's go, buy a few cheap Baofengs to use around camp or whatever, and if you lose one or drop it.. no biggie..

Happy trails

Thanks.
 

p m

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 19, 2004
15,617
838
58
La Jolla, CA
www.3rj.org
I would not trust a CB SWR meter to work for VHF/UHF.

Looks like TH-D72A might work for what you want. However, do you really need to be listening to voice comms (on what frequency?) and broadcasting your APRS packets at the same time? If you're really in a SHTF situation, your better bet is to have the list of local repeaters and their frequencies at hand; and seeing your position on the map (phone) is usually more convenient than knowing the GPS coordinates.

You may also look into FT-817ND. Shortwaves propagate far beyond line of sight.
 

az_max

1
Apr 22, 2005
7,463
2
I would not trust a CB SWR meter to work for VHF/UHF.
I have a SWR meter made for CB and it doesn't even move for HF. There's a bandpass filter in it. I borrowed one from work that does all kinds of crazy bands and it worked fine.
 

jymmiejamz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2004
6,008
361
35
Los Angeles, Ca
I just passed my Technician exam on Sunday (waiting for my call sign) and took the General after, which I failed. My friend with me passed Technician and General, but failed Extra. He actually gave up half way through but the VE's convinced him to just finish it. He got 26 right, which isn't bad considering he didn't study. I don't think there is a practical use for Extra for most of us, but I may be wrong.
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
I would not trust a CB SWR meter to work for VHF/UHF.

Looks like TH-D72A might work for what you want. However, do you really need to be listening to voice comms (on what frequency?) and broadcasting your APRS packets at the same time? If you're really in a SHTF situation, your better bet is to have the list of local repeaters and their frequencies at hand; and seeing your position on the map (phone) is usually more convenient than knowing the GPS coordinates.

You may also look into FT-817ND. Shortwaves propagate far beyond line of sight.

Good point on the SWR - I'll have to take a look at it. I think I know where it is.

My thought was to pretty much have the APRS sending my location as digital breadcrumbs so if I don't come home my friends/family know where to find the body. So no I don't need to have both. It is nice though

That was the plan - have the "local" repeaters programmed and marked on my maps (to give me an idea of which I might be able to hit). There are a surprising (to me) number of repeaters on 6m/2m/1.25/70cm and I think 23cm (going from memory of looking last week).

Like I said, I don't have to go far for cell service to cut out, so I always bring paper maps. Although I have thought about buying an Android tablet with GPS...But that's another story. (Printing off a topo before heading out is pretty easy, so...)

I forgot about the 817. I saw that when I first started looking, thought it would be overkill, and then forgot about it. That's another to consider. Thanks for reminding me
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
I just passed my Technician exam on Sunday (waiting for my call sign) and took the General after, which I failed. My friend with me passed Technician and General, but failed Extra. He actually gave up half way through but the VE's convinced him to just finish it. He got 26 right, which isn't bad considering he didn't study. I don't think there is a practical use for Extra for most of us, but I may be wrong.

Congrats
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
Just to follow up, I ended up buying the Kenwood TH-D72a and a Diamond flexible antenna to go with it.

Last night I passed my Tech and General. I didn't have time to study the Extra, and realized while studying for the General I probably would never use it anyway. But I took the test for giggles, just to see how I'd do - no bueno.

KN4KFS