Head Gasket Repair Done -- Still Leaks

[dhessler]

Hi Everyone!

I replaced the engine in my 2004 LR Discovery 2 about 3 years ago with about 37000 miles on 2nd engine now. Vehicle overheated for about 5 minutes before I pulled over and towed it to my mechanic. Ordered Head Gasket Repair Kit from Atlantic British, had my heads re-planed and leveled and my mechanic put it all back together. After job complete, same cylinder is leaking coolant EVEN THOUGH IT PASSED the pressure test. Atlantic British says that's weird and I and my mechanic are at a loss for words.

It's my daily driver and I have a young daughter SO....Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!

 

[Tugela]

Sorry to hear, that sounds like a stressful situation. The engines used in the 2003-2004 model years were manufactured at the end of a long production run when the tooling had seen better days and the higher quality units were in the rearview mirror. So in that sense, owners of later D2s have the deck stacked against them to some extent. Without knowing more details about the engine or the quality of the work done during the head gasket repair, I can think of two scenarios off the top of my head.

1. The head gasket re-install wasn't done correctly. There is a specific procedure for reinstalling the heads. If your mechanic is a seasoned hand with Rovers he should be familiar with this. If older Rovers are not his bread and butter, the nuances may have escaped him. Your post doesn't speak to this point so without knowing it's impossible to rule out procedural error.
2. Your engine block is cracked.

You might get some more detailed input here if you provide additional information. It would be helpful to know which cylinder is the recurring problem, as well as how closely the mechanic followed the reinstall procedure. I expect there are other possibilities, as well, which we may hear about from other posters.

 

[pinkytoe69]

After job complete, same cylinder is leaking coolant EVEN THOUGH IT PASSED the pressure test.

Is it leaking out the side of the engine or leaking inside of the cylinder?

If inside, Tugela is right...which cylinder?

 

[dhessler]

Thanks for the reply, Tugela! I'll send my mechanic the Atlantic British video on this subject and find out which cylinder is leaking. Is it possible to warp or crack an engine block driving 5-10 minutes on a overheated engine?

 

[mearstrae]

I was involved with such a scenario with a friend's 2003 with a 4.6. Gaskets changed twice, new bolts used each time, head straightened. It turned out to be cracking around the upper bolt holes in the block. An industrial engine block sealer was used to fix the problem (CRC brand block sealer, it's a real ritual of steps, but works). It seems that some dealers know of this problem and lay in a supply of sealer for their used cars with 4.6's. Land Rover denies this problem exists.

 

[pinkytoe69]

It turned out to be cracking around the upper bolt holes in the block. An industrial engine block sealer was used to fix the problem (CRC brand block sealer, it's a real ritual of steps, but works).

I did this as well, but with Irontite instead of CRC.

I don't know where my crack was, but it worked great for about 25,000 miles until a head bolt thread let loose.

 

[Swedjen2]

I was involved with such a scenario with a friend's 2003 with a 4.6. Gaskets changed twice, new bolts used each time, head straightened. It turned out to be cracking around the upper bolt holes in the block. An industrial engine block sealer was used to fix the problem (CRC brand block sealer, it's a real ritual of steps, but works). It seems that some dealers know of this problem and lay in a supply of sealer for their used cars with 4.6's. Land Rover denies this problem exists.

I believe John Robison's blog on the various issues he has experienced with late model 4.6 engine blocks mentions the cracking around the upper bolt holes in the block. He doesn't mention the use of block sealers to fix the problem, however.
He comments here once in awhile.
Will review his comments.

 

[xalty]

Thanks for the reply, Tugela! I'll send my mechanic the Atlantic British video on this subject and find out which cylinder is leaking. Is it possible to warp or crack an engine block driving 5-10 minutes on a overheated engine?

Absolutely, the big bore V8 blocks do NOT like being overheated. The two interior cylinders on each bank (3,4,5,6) are the ones that suffer the most and if found to be steamed cleaned, it's a cracked block.

https://www.amazon.com/Moroso-35500-Ceramic-Engine-Seal/dp/B000COU1TE

I believe John Robison's blog on the various issues he has experienced with late model 4.6 engine blocks mentions the cracking around the upper bolt holes in the block. He doesn't mention the use of block sealers to fix the problem, however.

Probably because he runs a business for non-cheapskates.

 

[Tugela]

Xalty makes a good point. You say you drove the truck in an overheated state for 5 minutes, but I bet it was actually for longer. Why? Because the dash temperature gauge does not give an accurate measurement of engine operating temp. It's basically a three-stage display showing one of the following states: you're cold, you're fine, or you're fucked. I was interested to observe on an old truck of mine the temperature range that the engine could take without showing any movement on the dash gauge. Watching the live data from an OBD-2 scanner, between 160 degrees and 230 degrees the needle never budged. You may have been cooking your engine without being aware of it. This is one advantage of running live data on your truck - you can set an alarm to go off when the temperature reaches a certain point, likely saving you from further damage.

 

[dhessler]

To answer an earlier question... Yes it is leaking coolant inside the cylinder. And facing the engine from the front it is the second cylinder in on the driver's side.

 

[xalty]

To answer an earlier question... Yes it is leaking coolant inside the cylinder. And facing the engine from the front it is the second cylinder in on the driver's side.

Definitely time to try and seal it up then.

 

[pinkytoe69]

Definitely time to try and seal it up then.

Yup, inner cylinder is likely a block crack.

 

[discostew]

Definitely time to try and seal it up then.

By seal it up, do you mean sell it?

 

[xalty]

By seal it up, do you mean sell it?

if you're feeling a little scheisty, why not both?

 

[dhessler]

Hmmm... some interesting points to consider. I will follow up with my mechanic. Not sure right now if I want to keep it or trade it in.
It was pressure tested at operating temperatures and passed the test. It's leaking inside the same cylinder of the original problem which is when facing the engine is the 2nd cylinder in on the driver's side of vehicle. The leak is internal inside that cylinder. No misfires.

I mean I love this old car. It's been my daily driver for the past 4 years. The 2nd engine was a re-manufactured engine from reputable dealer in Florida. Unfortunately, the one year warranty has expired.

I'm done with these flawed 2003-2004 Discovery engines. Anyone have any luck with engine conversion, like a LS engine swap? I don't have to worry about inspections in my state.

 

[Tugela]

It's a tough spot. If you sell/trade the truck you won't get much money given the state of the engine. Transplanting another engine is not going to be cheap, no matter what donor you choose, although a less expensive option might be another 03-04 block but then you're gambling again. Do you love the truck enough to keep pouring money into it or do you take a bath selling it? There's always going to be something else you need to repair or replace. If the Disco is structurally sound and rust-free, then spending the money to keep it running isn't crazy, because you know it's not going to rot to pieces in a couple years.

 

[pinkytoe69]

It was pressure tested at operating temperatures and passed the test. It's leaking inside the same cylinder of the original problem which is when facing the engine is the 2nd cylinder in on the driver's side of vehicle. The leak is internal inside that cylinder. No misfires.

Forgive me if this is a dumb question...

How do you know it is leaking there if it doesn't have misfire codes on that cylinder?

 

[Parrie]

Hmmm... some interesting points to consider. I will follow up with my mechanic. Not sure right now if I want to keep it or trade it in.
It was pressure tested at operating temperatures and passed the test. It's leaking inside the same cylinder of the original problem which is when facing the engine is the 2nd cylinder in on the driver's side of vehicle. The leak is internal inside that cylinder. No misfires.

I mean I love this old car. It's been my daily driver for the past 4 years. The 2nd engine was a re-manufactured engine from reputable dealer in Florida. Unfortunately, the one year warranty has expired.

I'm done with these flawed 2003-2004 Discovery engines. Anyone have any luck with engine conversion, like a LS engine swap? I don't have to worry about inspections in my state.

Yes, a majority of these motors are flawed however a properly rebuilt 4.6 is a better option than an LS swap IMO...much cheaper and everything bolts up.

 

[Swedjen2]

Hmmm... some interesting points to consider. I will follow up with my mechanic. Not sure right now if I want to keep it or trade it in.
It was pressure tested at operating temperatures and passed the test. It's leaking inside the same cylinder of the original problem which is when facing the engine is the 2nd cylinder in on the driver's side of vehicle. The leak is internal inside that cylinder. No misfires.

I mean I love this old car. It's been my daily driver for the past 4 years. The 2nd engine was a re-manufactured engine from reputable dealer in Florida. Unfortunately, the one year warranty has expired.

I'm done with these flawed 2003-2004 Discovery engines. Anyone have any luck with engine conversion, like a LS engine swap? I don't have to worry about inspections in my state.

You might sniff around https://nas-row.com/index.php. They have a powertrain section with conversions - but they are primarily a Defender oriented site.
Try Trailhead in Ohio - https://www.trailhead4x4.com/

 

[gimebakmybulits]

At this point if you have nothing to lose you might just dump a bottle of K-Seal in it and see what happens. My 98's cooling system was being pressurize by a crack/leak in the #5 cylinder and I tried a bottle. Two years later it still runs but do your own research and know the potential gotchas.