high copper count in oil analysis
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ptschram
Well-known member
So let's look at this from a rational persepctive.
Your '95 Disco has been merrily running along for 20 years and magically all of a sudden, your using high zinc oils begin to leach copper from your oil cooler?
I say bullshit!
1: your oil cooler is brass, not just copper.
2: Your zinc levels are NOT nine times greater than what one would expect based upon the analyses and the HUGE database the boys at Blackstone have seen.
3: If it were your oil cooler leaching copper, we would expect to see a correspondingly high increase in zinc content.
4: your engine is nearly worn out after 20 years.
Do you know what you oil pressure is? Declining oil pressure and increasing coolant temps are the major indicators of main/rod bearing failures.
I guarandamntee you that you will find the rod bearings/journals are worn well past the point of the crank needing to be turned and it is highly likely the same with the main bearings/journals.
These trucks will run for a LONG time, but not forever.
Your '95 Disco has been merrily running along for 20 years and magically all of a sudden, your using high zinc oils begin to leach copper from your oil cooler?
I say bullshit!
1: your oil cooler is brass, not just copper.
2: Your zinc levels are NOT nine times greater than what one would expect based upon the analyses and the HUGE database the boys at Blackstone have seen.
3: If it were your oil cooler leaching copper, we would expect to see a correspondingly high increase in zinc content.
4: your engine is nearly worn out after 20 years.
Do you know what you oil pressure is? Declining oil pressure and increasing coolant temps are the major indicators of main/rod bearing failures.
I guarandamntee you that you will find the rod bearings/journals are worn well past the point of the crank needing to be turned and it is highly likely the same with the main bearings/journals.
These trucks will run for a LONG time, but not forever.
ptschram
Well-known member
Think about it. Just how high would the zinc content have to be to result in such unreasonably high levels of copper?
It's a nine-fold increase! As one of my chemistry profs used to say when discussing Avogadro's Number, "That's a HELLUVA lot"!
How long have you owned the truck and how long have you been using "high-zinc content" oils? How much higher are the zinc levels in this oil you've been using with the higher zinc levels?
It's late, I'm tired, I don't feel up to the task of even beginning to derive the calculations necessary to "estimate" the amount of copper that would be leaching out of the oil coolers-much less the amount of zinc that would be coming out of the brass. For that matter, I don't see a reason for zinc in oil to be attacking the brass in your oil cooler to begin with.
While I managed elemental spectroscopy labs for quite a while-all but one of which did oil analysis (when Blackstone Labs is in the same town where you own a testing lab, why bother duplicating the effort they are already doing?), it's been 22 years since I did it daily.
It's a nine-fold increase! As one of my chemistry profs used to say when discussing Avogadro's Number, "That's a HELLUVA lot"!
How long have you owned the truck and how long have you been using "high-zinc content" oils? How much higher are the zinc levels in this oil you've been using with the higher zinc levels?
It's late, I'm tired, I don't feel up to the task of even beginning to derive the calculations necessary to "estimate" the amount of copper that would be leaching out of the oil coolers-much less the amount of zinc that would be coming out of the brass. For that matter, I don't see a reason for zinc in oil to be attacking the brass in your oil cooler to begin with.
While I managed elemental spectroscopy labs for quite a while-all but one of which did oil analysis (when Blackstone Labs is in the same town where you own a testing lab, why bother duplicating the effort they are already doing?), it's been 22 years since I did it daily.
owned it since february of this year, ran the oil that was in it (it was fresh) for 1500 miles, then changed it with rotella 15w40. ran that for 3k, and that is this sample. no idea what oil was in it, and for the last 8 years or so of it's life it only got 3-4000 miles a year put on it. like i said, i have no reason to suspect the engine is worn except for the oil analysis. this thing pulls like a freight train (well, a 180hp 2.5 ton one) from a dead stop and from 60-90 in overdrive on the highway.
'preciate the knowledge.
'preciate the knowledge.
I just left my job in a petroleum lab, would have gladly run a sample through the GC to take a peak for you.
ptschram
Well-known member
ptschram
Well-known member
Given this info, you might try switching to a less expensive synthetic, running it for a few hundred miles, changing, rinse, repeat a few times, then run it for 3000 miles and send another sample in.
Oil pressure will reveal much though.
my only hold up on the oil pressure gauge is that the threads are a little tight from powdercoating. i'm gonna run the sender and hockey puck thing through a NPT tap/dye before i attempt to put them together, and try to get that all in this weekend. any harm in flushing the thing with some ATF or other sort of snakeoil? maybe some MMO?
ptschram
Well-known member
The only time I have flushed an engine, I broke the crankshaft.
Oil is supposed to go in the sump. IMO, the best way to flush an engine is with frequent oil changes.
Once again, we're looking at a concentration issue (just like coolent). If we flush periodically, we can reduce the concentration of contaminants to an acceptable level-that's what oil changes are all about.
maybe I was a tad to generic, would have run it through the ICP (or an AA with a graphite furnace), for Al/Si/Ni/Fe, it would have to be ashed, fused, then run...Everything else would require ashing, dilution and then run. I would not go with an aqueous dilution method. traditionally everything I dealt with was heavy fuels/industrial fuels/vgo's/ crudes/heavier distillates and so on. If i needed something more technical (specific to lubes), such as antifreeze content, or fuel content, that would have been beyond my scope.
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My motor was "running strong" and had no noises or oil pressure issues. I pulled the crank to have top hat liners installed for an intermittent overheating issue. Needless to say the block is trash.
