Kneeling NFL players

seventyfive

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Jan 3, 2010
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Brett,

I am all for an employer's right to terminate employment. If an employer had an employee handbook and the employee signs it, the employee agrees to the employers employment guidelines.

Fuck first amendment stuff. We as a society have lost track of proper workplace behavior. Show up to work with a swastika tattooed on your forehead you're outta here! Why? You are expressing YOUR ideologies not the company's.

A grown ass man shows up to work in high heels and a skirt, I tell him to go home and change, and now I'm an intolerant homophobe? No. You're a welder and a welder needs longvpants and closed toe footwear. But not anymore!! Now I'm a bigot and and insensitive.

Interestingly enough it was company policy, for NFL employees, to be on the field at attention during the anthem until this season. So as an employer the NFL no longer can enforce disciplinary actions. What they did was act in a manner that was not proper workplace behavior

The bitch of it is you and I have fixed monthly outflows so before we make our choice we have to really weigh the consequences. The downside to living in a capitalist society...we're free to make choices until it jeapordizes the mortgage payment and shoes for the kids!

But to the point of this, the NFL played right into trumps hands. And what actually makes my stomach turn is the nhl is getting pressure to kneel. If the nhl players play into this stupid shit...But hockey players are more focused on their job so I'm hopeful.
 

seventyfive

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Jan 3, 2010
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My wife is a middle school teacher. This year's issue is girls dressing like whores. Get this, girls wearing those shorts where the ass cheeks literally hang out with no underwear. If a teacher mentions ANYTHING to the child the school's administration gets a shit storm. Why? Not due to the teachers union or county school board but due to being sued by the PARENT.

I know people love to accuse public education as the problem but the reality is teachers join the union for collective bargaining AND liability insurance My wife is covered up to a couple million in liability insurance, thru her union. Years ago she actually couldn't hold her tongue and told a kid to put his marijuana leaf medallion in his shirt because it was distracting the class. He kept blinging it and joking. And yes the next day the parents were threatening a lawsuit because my wife violated his first amendment rights. Dead serious.

My point is WE are failing as parents. Not all of us but a lot of parents are failing to be a parent first and putting the honus on everyone else.

A 20 something today has no concept of proper workplace attire due to never being taught what it is! If my wife is not allowed to address a child's attire and explain to them why it is not appropriate you know the parents aren't fucking doing it either.
 

aliastel

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Sep 27, 2009
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Champaign, IL
But to the point of this, the NFL played right into trumps hands. And what actually makes my stomach turn is the nhl is getting pressure to kneel. If the nhl players play into this stupid shit...But hockey players are more focused on their job so I'm hopeful.

Isn't the job of NFL and NHL players to play football and hockey? As far as I can see, as long as they are doing that, it doesn't matter what they are doing before the game, as long as their bosses are Ok with it. And since many of the bosses were out there locking arms with them when they kneeled, I guess it's all good with them too.
 

seventyfive

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Jan 3, 2010
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If the owner of the maple leafs tells his employees to stand and stare at the dangling cloth then that's also their job. It's not about blind nationalist loyalty it's simply the employees duty to fulfill his obligations as an employee.

If the owner says I don't give a fuck what you do until the puck drops its up to the employee to act in a manner he feels best represents his organization.
 

aliastel

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Sep 27, 2009
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Champaign, IL
My wife is a middle school teacher. This year's issue is girls dressing like whores. Get this, girls wearing those shorts where the ass cheeks literally hang out with no underwear. If a teacher mentions ANYTHING to the child the school's administration gets a shit storm. Why? Not due to the teachers union or county school board but due to being sued by the PARENT.

I know people love to accuse public education as the problem but the reality is teachers join the union for collective bargaining AND liability insurance My wife is covered up to a couple million in liability insurance, thru her union. Years ago she actually couldn't hold her tongue and told a kid to put his marijuana leaf medallion in his shirt because it was distracting the class. He kept blinging it and joking. And yes the next day the parents were threatening a lawsuit because my wife violated his first amendment rights. Dead serious.

My point is WE are failing as parents. Not all of us but a lot of parents are failing to be a parent first and putting the honus on everyone else.

A 20 something today has no concept of proper workplace attire due to never being taught what it is! If my wife is not allowed to address a child's attire and explain to them why it is not appropriate you know the parents aren't fucking doing it either.

This reminds me of a civil rights case against the KKK up in Minnesota. A teenager burned a cross on the lawn of a black family. The family filed charges, and the prosecutor made the mistake of filing it as a hate crime. The teenager was convicted, but the case went to appeal and the court found him innocent due to freedom of speech. The moral of the story is that if the prosecutor had filed the case as damaging property or threatening the family, then it would never have been overturned.

So, don't say that you are punishing the kid for wearing a marijuana medallion or short-shorts. Punish them for distracting the class.

After all, Al Capone was convicted of tax fraud, not murder or running contraband. . .
 

aliastel

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Sep 27, 2009
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Champaign, IL
If the owner of the maple leafs tells his employees to stand and stare at the dangling cloth then that's also their job. It's not about blind nationalist loyalty it's simply the employees duty to fulfill his obligations as an employee.

If the owner says I don't give a fuck what you do until the puck drops its up to the employee to act in a manner he feels best represents his organization.

What if the owner is out there supporting the protest?
 

seventyfive

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Jan 3, 2010
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What if the owner is out there supporting the protest?

Here's what I would do if in the same situation.

Let them do what they want and I will stand at attention and stare at the flag. Why? Because I've been deployed and when I see that flag I don't think about politics gay rights black rights trans gender sensitivity rights what anyone thinks of me if I don't do what society tells me what I should do

All I think is I'm finally home. The flag represents my home. This country is definitely fucked and we are slaves to the corporate over lords but it's my home. Any port in the storm? This is my port in the storm. We have an ugly history but we can change how we proceed

And we can't begin changing it for the better when we constantly allow ourselves to be tricked into regressing.

This whole sit kneel stand pray shit is nothing more than divide and conquer And we buy into it every fucking time.
 

aliastel

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Sep 27, 2009
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Champaign, IL
Here's what I would do if in the same situation.

Let them do what they want and I will stand at attention and stare at the flag. Why? Because I've been deployed and when I see that flag I don't think about politics gay rights black rights trans gender sensitivity rights what anyone thinks of me if I don't do what society tells me what I should do

All I think is I'm finally home. The flag represents my home. This country is definitely fucked and we are slaves to the corporate over lords but it's my home. Any port in the storm? This is my port in the storm. We have an ugly history but we can change how we proceed

And we can't begin changing it for the better when we constantly allow ourselves to be tricked into regressing.

This whole sit kneel stand pray shit is nothing more than divide and conquer And we buy into it every fucking time.

I understand your point, but I'm pretty sure that the same argument was used by the British loyalists in the American Revolution, and Nazis when they ordered German soldiers to load the cattle cars. . . Countries are not flags or anthems in the end, they are people standing for the values for which a nation stands, and being willing to stand up against those who would try to use the flag or anthem to support actions which violate the principles for which they stand. . .
 

seventyfive

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Jan 3, 2010
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I understand your point, but I'm pretty sure that the same argument was used by the British loyalists in the American Revolution, and Nazis when ordered they German soldiers to load the cattle cars. . . Countries are not flags or anthems in the end, they are people standing for the values for which a nation stands, and being willing to stand up against those who would try to use the flag or anthem to support actions which violate the principles for which they stand. . .

I get it. You're one of those the flag represents the white Anglo Saxon Protestant that exploited every non white anglo saxon Protestant to make this country what it is only to consistently deny them their rights as humans.

Anyone who salutes the flag is a nationalist robot programmed to obey.


Look I have lots of First Nation blood in me. I absolutely fucking hate white bread racists. I know the real history of this country. So what am I supposed to do? Constantly iterate it and label those who I despise OR do I raise my children to change this country for the better and make it a place where all men actually are created equal?
 

seventyfive

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Transcending those things means treating everyone equally. That's tough for a country who's original sins are slavery and the destruction of Native Americans.

Like I said, you can't change history but you can change the future. You can't change the future if you're living in the pst. Even jethro Tull knows that.
 

seventyfive

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Destruction of First Nation? It was a fucking genocide. The First Nation still standing are still treated like they were 100 years ago...you see them kneeling?
 

aliastel

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Sep 27, 2009
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Champaign, IL
I get it. You're one of those the flag represents the white Anglo Saxon Protestant that exploited every non white anglo saxon Protestant to make this country what it is only to consistently deny them their rights as humans.

Anyone who salutes the flag is a nationalist robot programmed to obey.


Look I have lots of First Nation blood in me. I absolutely fucking hate white bread racists. I know the real history of this country. So what am I supposed to do? Constantly iterate it and label those who I despise OR do I raise my children to change this country for the better and make it a place where all men actually are created equal?

It's not about talk. It's about action. Above all it's about education. Discussions like these are good for both sides, even if they won't admit it openly. I went to Standing Rock and stood with the Sioux because I wanted to learn for myself. I think I learned some things that were not possible watching TV coverage. Did it change anything? Well, Trump bulldozed them anyway, but in the end it made the world pay attention to the cause for a brief moment. That could not have happened without people protesting, getting beaten, gased and arrested. It took the sacrifices of people who could have just as easily stayed at home complaining about the injustice of the world. The real warriors were the ones who were out there taking fire. Not a bad lesson I feel.
 

aliastel

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And by the way, I am also a U.S. Army veteran, and there were countless other veterans who went under the gun to support the Sioux at Standing Rock. I would say we all know what the flag really means as much as any other American.

And I took my 17 year old daughter with me because I am raising her to take a stand for the things she believes in too.
 

seventyfive

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yeah and how many libertarian tea partiers did you see flying don't tread on me flags resisting the tyrannical federal government???? Now how many would you've seen if those resisting an oil line being installed were white? A shit load!

First Nation are resisting not just to keep their water clean BUT everyone's water clean. How were they handled? Pepper spray cannons, private security companies dogs, water cannons in sub zero temperatures.
State and federal law enforcement
They were unarmed trying to get into turtle island yet the law enforcement officers declared it was a violent action.

Good stuff.

Notice how nobody gives a shit? Notice how the libertarians on this forum never started a thread about it? Is it due to First Nations not being white? Of course it is.

Like I said this country is led by devious fucks brainwashing people what to believe. I choose not to buy into the horse shit. I also don't buy into the flag only represents the horse shit. It also represents the freedom we have to change it...
 

seventyfive

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Jan 3, 2010
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And by the way, I am also a U.S. Army veteran, and there were countless other veterans who went under the gun to support the Sioux at Standing Rock. I would say we all know what the flag really means as much as any other American.

And I took my 17 year old daughter with me because I am raising her to take a stand for the things she believes in too.

Army doesn't count!

Fwiw my 11 year old son wears his smokey the bear Resist t shirt. Yes I too am raising thinkers not followers. That's about all we really can do. You and I aren't going to change a 30 year old resnecks mind but we can raise our children to be open minded empathetic critical thinkers. As long as you keep them away from social media and advertising they have a fighting chance.
 

aliastel

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Sep 27, 2009
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Champaign, IL
yeah and how many libertarian tea partiers did you see flying don't tread on me flags resisting the tyrannical federal government???? Now how many would you've seen if those resisting an oil line being installed were white? A shit load!

First Nation are resisting not just to keep their water clean BUT everyone's water clean. How were they handled? Pepper spray cannons, private security companies dogs, water cannons in sub zero temperatures.
State and federal law enforcement
They were unarmed trying to get into turtle island yet the law enforcement officers declared it was a violent action.

Good stuff.

Notice how nobody gives a shit? Notice how the libertarians on this forum never started a thread about it? Is it due to First Nations not being white? Of course it is.

Like I said this country is led by devious fucks brainwashing people what to believe. I choose not to buy into the horse shit. I also don't buy into the flag only represents the horse shit. It also represents the freedom we have to change it...

Amen.

The so-called Oath-Keepers said they were coming to support the Sioux but never showed up.

I personally witnessed the North Dakota police taunting the Sioux via loudspeaker with chants of "Ten Little Dirty Indians". Despicable.

I saw warriors, women and men marching unarmed trying to reclaim their ancestral burial mound, which the police had parked their vehicles on as a taunt and outright disrespect. Then they beat them bloody when they came up the hill.

Ugliness. . .

Let me tell you that the one thing I learned more than any other is that treatment of the First Nation has not changed much over the last century.

But nevertheless, the Sioux, and many other nations, from South America and Australia even, would rise each morning and thank the sun for rising and bringing a new day.

I could go on, but for me and my daughter, we left there with a real sense of what it means to be a true American.