Kneeling NFL players

aliastel

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2009
942
0
Champaign, IL
I take that as liberals turn into conservatives as they go though life and deal with all the nonsense. The old red white and blue fist can get tiring.

Look back in time, those akin to Bernie Sanders a hundred years ago were pushing an eight hour workday and they won it. Who is speaking against that now? The truth is the truth whether you want to admit it. Argue all you want, but history has shown that the conservative if the moment is a dying breed. The very definition of a conservative is the one who is trying to hold on to the past. . . Good luck with that. . . It's a factor of life. . . Wake up. . . lest you end up like Don Quixote singing the impossible dream. . . Like Donald Trump is now. . . Lol. . .
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
Look back in time, those akin to Bernie Sanders a hundred years ago were pushing an eight hour workday and they won it. Who is speaking against that now? The truth is the truth whether you want to admit it. Argue all you want, but history has shown that the conservative if the moment is a dying breed. The very definition of a conservative is the one who is trying to hold on to the past. . . Good luck with that. . . It's a factor of life. . . Wake up. . . lest you end up like Don Quixote singing the impossible dream. . . Like Donald Trump is now. . . Lol. . .

Unless we get rid of currency or all jobs go away there will always be conservatives. Mind you conservatives are short for fiscal conservative and social conservatives. I will not argue social consertatives are a dieing breed. Fiscal, not so much, not even close. Watch how this tax reform works out real close in the coming weeks and it will prove my point just fine. Have you looked at your pay stub recently? Happy with the return? Don?t worry my fiend, you?re not alone.
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
Given the failure of the ACA I doubt that?s true. Strong regulation and large group plans are the way forward.

Lol. You keep describing the ACA. Then say it's all a monstrosity.

Large groups (through the mandate)? Check

Strong regulation? Check (defined what the plans must cover - yet you say the EO is great because it refunds those regs)
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
Lol. You keep describing the ACA. Then say it's all a monstrosity.

Large groups (through the mandate)? Check

Strong regulation? Check (defined what the plans must cover - yet you say the EO is great because it refunds those regs)

There are key differences Scott, guess.

I?ll give you a hint, it involves subsidies that are not paid out by taxpayer money.
 

1920SF

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
2,705
1
NoVA
Unless we get rid of currency or all jobs go away there will always be conservatives. Mind you conservatives are short for fiscal conservative and social conservatives. I will not argue social consertatives are a dieing breed. Fiscal, not so much, not even close. Watch how this tax reform works out real close in the coming weeks and it will prove my point just fine. Have you looked at your pay stub recently? Happy with the return? Don?t worry my fiend, you?re not alone.

Wait, does that mean the economy isn't doing good-b/c I thought the market is doing great and thus the economy is awesome and unemployment numbers that were fake are now real and other miracles of the election?

Watch how this tax reform works out in the coming weeks indeed; I'd offer you aren't really paying attention to how things work if you think that's going to go well. You aren't alone there, that tendency to focus on the sideshows instead of the substance is situation normal (it is actually the title of this thread)

I also have to laugh at the idea that fiscal conservatism means anything; other than Rand (whose ideas don't have merit in the real world; like many things they sound great till you realize execution isn't feasible-much less desirable).

To tie it back to how the thread started; did we win with the NFL kneeling thing? Has it now spun off to an incredibly disgusting conversation about how we honor our fallen?
Is that winning? Cause I am definitely tired of that.
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
Wait, does that mean the economy isn't doing good-b/c I thought the market is doing great and thus the economy is awesome and unemployment numbers that were fake are now real and other miracles of the election?

Watch how this tax reform works out in the coming weeks indeed; I'd offer you aren't really paying attention to how things work if you think that's going to go well. You aren't alone there, that tendency to focus on the sideshows instead of the substance is situation normal (it is actually the title of this thread)

I also have to laugh at the idea that fiscal conservatism means anything; other than Rand (whose ideas don't have merit in the real world; like many things they sound great till you realize execution isn't feasible-much less desirable).

To tie it back to how the thread started; did we win with the NFL kneeling thing? Has it now spun off to an incredibly disgusting conversation about how we honor our fallen?
Is that winning? Cause I am definitely tired of that.

And Ray, oh Ray.

I know this typing helps you vent and I'm here for you. If fiscal conservatives don't mean anything why aren't the Republicans shifting into the Lemmings the Democrats always were? Why do our republicans differ in their thought process and fiscal goals enough not to ram through legislation like you think should happen in 9 months?

You and Scott, so special to me.

Cheers!
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
Like I said above: Your position is - I've got mine, fuck everyone else.

Let's try this:

If 'some' of 'everyone else' said "I don't want/need medial insurance you're saying 'Fuck you, you're getting it whether you like it or not.'

Does this help describe your line of thinking?

Create large Group Policies that are under membership/organizational umbrellas that are NOT subsidized by our Federal Government. You guys like Unions right? Unions would LOVE this shit. Think about GEICO offering medical insurance, hell, sky's the limit. And on top of all that make this work Nation Wide, across state lines. When presented with possibilities our economy can tackle this with ease.
 

1920SF

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
2,705
1
NoVA
And Ray, oh Ray.

I know this typing helps you vent and I'm here for you. If fiscal conservatives don't mean anything why aren't the Republicans shifting into the Lemmings the Democrats always were? Why do our republicans differ in their thought process and fiscal goals enough not to ram through legislation like you think should happen in 9 months?

You and Scott, so special to me.

Cheers!

The power of delusion is strong. Keep listening to conservative talk radio; it has the answers for your dysfunction.

Adults would suggest you don't start when the clock starts, that's like beginning to coach a team after the game begins (since sports metaphors keep this simple...).

All the rhetoric in the world, and no substance.
 

1920SF

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
2,705
1
NoVA
That?s it? That?s your rebuttal?

Lol

Why don?t you read Ray.

What is there to respond to-you haven't said anything substantive. Again.

When you get to something that is worth responding to, I'll be happy to comment.
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
What is there to respond to-you haven't said anything substantive. Again.

When you get to something that is worth responding to, I'll be happy to comment.

You don?t respond Ray because you have no hands on business knowledge. Let?s be real here. Again, large group plans regulated under corporate/membership umbrellas that are offered across state lines. Tell me how and why this plan won?t work, go. Competition has always been at the heart of our growing economy. It’s woven into our fabric and no protest on wall street or democratic congressman will ever change that, at least, not in our lifetimes.
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,913
457
Darien Gap
You don?t respond Ray because you have no hands on business knowledge. Let?s be real here. Again, large group plans regulated under corporate/membership umbrellas that are offered across state lines. Tell me how and why this plan won?t work, go. Competition has always been at the heart of our growing economy. It?s woven into our fabric and no protest on wall street or democratic congressman will ever change that, at least, not in our lifetimes.

There are issue with single-payer, but let's acknowledge two main issues with your group plans..

Multiple redundant bureaucracies - Many billing targets means more admin work in each office, a large source of costs here. Many insurers means many companies providing redundant services with redundant people in redundant positions. Competition will drive to optimize human resources, but it's not as efficient as a well run (I know this is the lynch pin) single entity.

Corporatism - This is well understood. No explanation necessary. It's a very real risk, born out in several industries we all know.

Both have potential if done right, and risky if not. Neither side of the pond seems to have confidence that the other with be implemented right.
 
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brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
There are issue with single-payer, but let's acknowledge two main issues with your group plans..

Multiple redundant bureaucracies - Many billing targets means more admin work in each office, a large source of costs here. Many insurers means many companies providing redundant services with redundant people in redundant positions. Competition will drive to optimize human resources, but it's not as efficient as a well run (I know this is the lynch pin) single entity.

Corporatism - This is well understood. No explanation necessary. It's a very real risk, born out in several industries we all know.

Both have potential if done right, and risky if not. Neither side of the pond seems to have confidence that the other with be implemented right.

Eric, all I can say to your fears (that I completely understand) is implement strong oversight regulation and audit the audit so to speak. What I do know is that our government will create more admin work and more problems as they always have. Think nightmare on insurance street. We can?t even develop a website that my personal company could have created for 100k or less. No shit, we examined it throughly. Trust our government with state parks, military and NASA. Anything above and beyond is a stretch.
 

1920SF

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
2,705
1
NoVA
You don?t respond Ray because you have no hands on business knowledge. Let?s be real here. Again, large group plans regulated under corporate/membership umbrellas that are offered across state lines. Tell me how and why this plan won?t work, go. Competition has always been at the heart of our growing economy. It?s woven into our fabric and no protest on wall street or democratic congressman will ever change that, at least, not in our lifetimes.

Large group plans regulated by corporations are going to be the savior eh? Does that fold in with your 'strong oversight regulation' commentary too?

Simple questions: who does the oversight? Who writes the regulation?

I didn't respond because for the most part you spout nonsense. Competition actually hasn't always been at the heart of our growing economy, anyone with any knowledge of history knows that. When did the US economy explode into becoming the global power that it is now? WWII. Was there competition then? I mean, aside from the competition with the Nazis and the Japanese.

That doesn't mean I think we need to have a centralized economy that creates full industrial potential; merely pointing out the fallacy of what you state.

Why your concept won't work with healthcare is pretty much because all you are doing is working the margins of what we have now. It likely won't drive prices down significantly, nor will it create better care for a broader cross section of society. The idea of self governance and regulation, in case that's what you want to propose, has worked out really well in other sectors.

No amount of irrelevant drivel about protests or complaints about congressmen actually makes you more correct.
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
Large group plans regulated by corporations are going to be the savior eh? Does that fold in with your 'strong oversight regulation' commentary too?

Simple questions: who does the oversight? Who writes the regulation?

I didn't respond because for the most part you spout nonsense. Competition actually hasn't always been at the heart of our growing economy, anyone with any knowledge of history knows that. When did the US economy explode into becoming the global power that it is now? WWII. Was there competition then? I mean, aside from the competition with the Nazis and the Japanese.

That doesn't mean I think we need to have a centralized economy that creates full industrial potential; merely pointing out the fallacy of what you state.

Why your concept won't work with healthcare is pretty much because all you are doing is working the margins of what we have now. It likely won't drive prices down significantly, nor will it create better care for a broader cross section of society. The idea of self governance and regulation, in case that's what you want to propose, has worked out really well in other sectors.

No amount of irrelevant drivel about protests or complaints about congressmen actually makes you more correct.

But real corporate group plans that work for real people that provide real affordable care accounts for nothing? Ray, you sound like a fool. I won?t go as far to say you are. When you have some real experience with real plans that help real people come back and we?ll talk.

And working the margins of what we have now? Are you kidding? You don’t have a clue about the private sector sir. No worries, there are pentagon workings that I’d have no clue. Perfectly normal.