Lithium-Ion Tools

[Ian95rrc]

Has anyone bought any of these tools yet? I'm lusting after the new Makita tools. I didn't care for how the Milwaukees looked but these Makitas are awesome. As far as I know, they are the only companies making them at the moment. $629 for the Makita combo kit seems like a really good deal.

http://www.makita.com/

 

[syoung]

Lithium Ion batteries can be a blessing in some cases and a nightmare in others. They just now have the capability to make the batteries tolerate a large current draw. They are VERY temperature sensitive and can explode if too cold, explode if too hot, explode if discharged too far, explode if overcharged... and when they go, the vent a flame like a blowtorch. I've been using them in hi performance R/C planes and I've seen them vent (luckily none of mine have, yet). I store them in a fire safe in the garage. I dunno if I'd jump on them until the safety record is proven.

 

[Ian95rrc]

I highly doubt Makita and Milwaukee would sell a product likely to explode. That would pretty much be suicide to them. Lithium Ion is definitely the future of power tools like it or not.

 

[syoung]

They don't make the batteries- there are only three sources for LiIon. I'd let others to the initial testing before dropping the money. Lithium Ion is the future of all battery powered stuff, but they have to work out the temperature sensitivity first.

 

[lagged]

Doesn't Dewalt use Li Ion in some of its batteries? I could have sworn my drill has them. They are guaranteed for life regardless.

 

[Ian95rrc]

No Dewalt's are all the regular NiCd or NiMH. Hitachi is the only other one with LI-ION, but they are only selling them in Japan at the moment. I think there is also a rumor that Bosch has them in the works.

The Makitas have a 3 year warranty so I don't think there's much risk in them. They have been out for awhile in Japan so evidently they work.

So who does Makita buy their batteries from Steve? Evidently you know everything about this technology so please inform us mere mortals.

 

[Brian...]

Ian,

Forget that Makita crap! What you need is this piece of lovin':

Panasonic EY6432GQKW

It kicks the hell out of most other 18V drills and drives like a dream.

And the best rechargable screwdriver I have used yet:

Panasonic EY6225CQ

Now, you could always pony up the dollars for these babies, but I'm not that rich:

What the tool god did on the 7th Day...

Cheers,
Brian...

 

[landrvrnut21]

The Makita and Dewalt Li-ion stuff is crap. Milwaukee has a patent on the technology, and the Li-ion tools have been in development for 6 years. They are expensive, but everything so far shows that it is a superior technology.

Milwaukee V28

Makita just wanted to build the same weight tool, with longer run time. Dewalt did the same. However Milwaukee built theirs to be the same weight tool, with 4x the run time, and greater power. Thats why they are able to provide a cordless bandsaw for the first time.

Secondly, Milwaukee tools are better built, and last longer to begin with. All my tools are Milwaukee except for my Makita 10" compound sliding miter saw, and Bosch 1" rotary hammer. They get used daily, abused, and they still look and function like the day they were bought. My grandfather trusted them, and some of the tools I use he bought new before any of the other companies existed.

Milwaukee are also the only tool manufacurer left in the US, and they intend to stay in the US.

If I were you, I would stay away from the Chinese crap, and buy Milwaukee. But remember, they are not for the average joe, hanging shelves in his house. They are built to take the abuse of daily work in a hostile enviroment.

 

[syoung]

So who does Makita buy their batteries from Steve? Evidently you know everything about this technology so please inform us mere mortals.

If you get one, send me a picture of the cells and I can tell you who made it. I've been following this technology closely since I build high performance and large scale R/C aircraft with high current motors. We run those batteries to their limits and sometimes beyond in a firey smokey mess. Motorola's PR machine squashed the reports, but LiIon cells in consumer devices HAVE vented before and caused fires and injuries... and those were simple 2 cell 7.2V 340mah batteries. Short out a 3600mah 4 cell 14.4V pack and you've got a burned down house or truck. I have lots of these batteries and like i said- they are stored in a fire safe in a temp controlled garage.

 

[Ian95rrc]

The Makita and Dewalt Li-ion stuff is crap. Milwaukee has a patent on the technology, and the Li-ion tools have been in development for 6 years. They are expensive, but everything so far shows that it is a superior technology.

Milwaukee V28

Makita just wanted to build the same weight tool, with longer run time. Dewalt did the same. However Milwaukee built theirs to be the same weight tool, with 4x the run time, and greater power. Thats why they are able to provide a cordless bandsaw for the first time.

Secondly, Milwaukee tools are better built, and last longer to begin with. All my tools are Milwaukee except for my Makita 10" compound sliding miter saw, and Bosch 1" rotary hammer. They get used daily, abused, and they still look and function like the day they were bought. My grandfather trusted them, and some of the tools I use he bought new before any of the other companies existed.

Milwaukee are also the only tool manufacurer left in the US, and they intend to stay in the US.

If I were you, I would stay away from the Chinese crap, and buy Milwaukee. But remember, they are not for the average joe, hanging shelves in his house. They are built to take the abuse of daily work in a hostile enviroment.

Most of my Makita tools are made in the USA or UK, so don't give me that BS about them being Chinese. My makita tools are used and abused everyday, just like my Milwaukee, Rigid, Porter Cable, Hilti, and Hitachi tools. I'm using a Porter Cable drill at the moment but it's lived out it's life. No one tool manufacture makes the best tools, they each have good and bad. For instance, I would never buy a Makita nail gun. I have a Rigid FRH framer and a Hitachi finish. It makes sense to stick with one brand for cordless tools, but otherwise I see no reason for brand loyalty.

Sure the Milwaukee LiION tools are probably the best overall in performace, but the 28V does weigh more than the 18v. I personally don't really need anything over 18v. Notice I never said anything bad about Milwaukee, all I said was I didn't like how they looked.

"Dewalt did the same." That's interesting because the Dewalts won't be out until 2006. They will be 36V not 18. Can you post a link to the 18V LiION Dewalt?

 

[Steve Rupp]

Ian- I'm pretty sure that the Lithium Ion 28v milwaukee set is the same weight or lighter than the 18v set. I could have sworn I read that in their little pamphlet. If all this stuff is true I can't wait to get it. Although, I think Steve is right though. I'll wait a bit to see how this stuff pans out in the field.

I've used them all and I will never buy anything other than milwaukee. I have a 12v Rigid drill that I use for screwing in devices and boxes but kind of consider it to be disposal. The Milwaukee tools that I use just seem to last so much longer than the others. I had some bad luck with the makita. I think of them as the little smoker winch.

 

[Ian95rrc]

The Milwaukee 28V is 6.7 pounds vs. 6.3 for their 18V.

I was actually refering to the 28V Li-Ion vs. 18V Li-Ion. I think the 18V Makita is something like 4.9 pounds. That's a pretty big difference. I'm not saying one is better than the other, that wasn't the point of this thread. I like them both I just think personally for my needs the Makita is probably better.

I can totally respect your loyalty to Milwaukee Steve. I really like my Milwaukee tools. I just think you can never say that one tool manufacture is superior to all others for every tool they make.

I think Makita has made great improvements in quality. I didn't have any experience with them until about 2001. I think in some ways they are like Rigid. The newer Rigid tools are pretty good, yet the old are crap. So understandibly they carry a bad reputation with some people.

 

[Steve Rupp]

I understand what you're saying about manufacturers. However, this is a tool that I use every day with my job and I've seen and used them all. So yes I do get pretty particular on the tools I use.

Ok back to battery talk.....

 

[Ian95rrc]

I'm not approaching it from the DIY perspective. I'm a GC so I use them everyday too.

Well apparently, they have chips in these batteries to prevent any accidents. We all know how reliable computer chips are though, so perhaps Steve will be right. Time will tell.

 

[syoung]

They have safety circuits in them and the chargers now have cell balancers which help immensely. I think they've probably done all they can to amke them safe. The one thing I bet they haven't fixed is the temp sensitivity. If you work in cold weather or leave your tools in your truck on a cold winter night, it might kill 'em. Read all the caveats first- it would suck to drop that kind of money and find it isn't well suited for the job.

 

[Ian95rrc]

This is what Milwaukee says about cold weather operation.

"The V28 Lithium-Ion Battery pack can be used in temperatures down to -4 degrees F. When the battery pack is very cold, it may pulse for the first minute of use to warm itself up. Put the battery pack on a tool and use the tool in a light application. After about a minute, the pack will have warmed itself up and operate normally."

They also say it will shut off if it overheats during use. You then have to put it back on the charger until the charger says it's ready to go.

 

[Ian95rrc]

There are some things I really like about the Milwaukee. For instance that you can put the battery on from the rear or front. The impact driver has a whoping 325 ft. lbs. of torque. That would be sweet for breaking lug nuts or driving huge lag bolts. However, I don't need 325 ft. lbs. to drive screws. The Makita is 1/3 the power but it's also 1/3 the size. Personally, I have more problems getting something to fit into a tight space rather than not having enough torque to fasten. Using a drill to drive screws will never work as good as using a compact impact driver, IMHO.