Lockers, axles, gears, and tires... it's time

Jan 3, 2005
11,745
71
On Kennith's private island
Enlighten me o wise one

Really? A reserve tank is as great as endless air supply? The Power Tank's were great until the invention of the Lithium battery that can be recharged off a USB port. Way back in the day you could run some air tools off the power tank if needed, as well as inflate your tires. Somewhere along the way someone made a kit to run your lockers. These days companies make battery powered tools with more power/torque than you'll ever see from a 10lb tank of CO2.

Not to mention the Power Tank is large. It's a bulky kit to carry and mounting options are awkward. It also cost you ~$15 to refill after you've pumped up your tires about 4 times - that's more expensive than the gas station air pump.

The Power Tank is fast at airing up your tires. Probably takes about 45 seconds to 1 minute per tire, which is pretty good. The ARB pumps take about 2.5 minutes if you don't have a reserve tank. If you got all crazy and made a bracket to fit the Rover, a York pump would take about 20 seconds per tire and you could run an impact at the same time.

The 12v pumps are a smaller package, easier to tuck away, and never run out of air.

Power Tanks fill your tires faster. I can't think of another good thing to say about Power Tanks.
 
Jan 3, 2005
11,745
71
On Kennith's private island
I have two tanks. They're 15lb tanks with high flow regulators. They sit in the garage and I use one about once, maybe twice, a year to do random stuff. When you just need to blow in a few nails with an air nailer or pump up your lawn mower tire. That's really about all they're good for. Whenever they run out of CO2 I doubt I'll ever refill them.
 

K-rover

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2010
2,163
62
Raleigh, NC
Ive only been running my Ashcroft air lockers for 2 yrs with the middle of the line ARB compressor, and I have had zero issues. Also using the ARB wiring kit for the switches.
I will be moving the compressor from the engine bay to the interior to help keep the heat and dust away from it. I will say that the air line supplied with the lockers seems stout, but I wrapped it in split wrap all the way from end to end anyway to help protect it a bit more. With 35s filling the tires is painfully slow, but it does get the job done.
Power tanks are cool, but Id rather have a compressor.
 
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discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,706
1,015
Northern Illinois
It is pretty cheap to do if you already have a good block. There are plenty of D2 4.6s out there with cracked blocks (also incorrectly diagnosed as 'slipped liners'). Get a good rotating assembly and install it in your block. If you want even more power, use the pistons out of your 4.0 with the 4.6 crank and rods.

Lets talk about this for just a bit. I'll try not to hijack the gearing thread to much. I've heard this explained a couple ways Jymmie, and I really don't know so `help me out. The way I understand it, the pistons are pretty much the same when measuring from the wrist pin center to the top of the piston. I know some of the special addition Range Rovers had high compression pistons. I'm assuming those are 4.6 engines but again I don't know.

As far as the gearing changes you guys are talking about. I like the chart that helps you put the tire size and the gear ratio to get as close to stock RPM ranges at speed. I'm building a truck right now I would like to call unmolested. It has stock gears, slight lift, 30" tires. I'm looking for a Detroit locker for my rear axle. I've pulled thousands of pounds of crap out of this truck. Including 2 ARB lockers, safarigard front and rear bumpers, 9,000 warn winch, a complete safarigard stage2 suspension(whatever that fucking means). The closer this truck gets to stock the better it drives.
 
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p m

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 19, 2004
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Well I don't see 3.75 gears on your lockers page, but I'm sure you could do that, for sake of argument here's the comparison:
Here's something to ponder - IIRC, I posted that already, but not sure if in this thread or another.
Picture yourself this.
You build your dream truck, take it to a gnarly trail, bump up the rocks and ... your ring or/and pinion let go.
If you had factory ratio, the replacement is in the nearest junkyard.
If you bought something around 4.10 (4.11, 4.12) from Lucky8 or another US retailer with good stock and shipping turnaround, you just order a replacement, it arrives a day or two later, and off you go.
If you bought something overseas, it will be a little or a lot later. And it just might be out of stock - hang on 'till we get more of them parts.

This is not a negligible consideration. It applies to other parts, especially tires, as well. If you bought a beautiful but unobtanium tire and it is no longer in production or stock....
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,706
1,015
Northern Illinois
I'll take it a step further with something that I was shown by a Camel Trophy driver. If you get a really steep incline and are walking the truck forward up the hill. When you slowly raise the rpm and wait for the torque converter to multiply torque, you see that everything is in play. Axle ratio, transfer box ratio, tire size, all of it. These guys at Land Rover built an incredible truck. They all had engineering degrees. Your redesigning the fucking thing and all this shit has already been sorted. By a damn engineer.

Sure some mods make sense because the vehicle in the end had to fit every buyers needs best possible. So we know when we have trouble and make some mods. Some of them make sense. But some just make things shitty.
 

Jeff Blake

Well-known member
May 6, 2016
429
16
Pacific Beach, San Diego
Here's something to ponder - IIRC, I posted that already, but not sure if in this thread or another.
Picture yourself this.
You build your dream truck, take it to a gnarly trail, bump up the rocks and ... your ring or/and pinion let go.
If you had factory ratio, the replacement is in the nearest junkyard.
If you bought something around 4.10 (4.11, 4.12) from Lucky8 or another US retailer with good stock and shipping turnaround, you just order a replacement, it arrives a day or two later, and off you go.
If you bought something overseas, it will be a little or a lot later. And it just might be out of stock - hang on 'till we get more of them parts.

This is not a negligible consideration. It applies to other parts, especially tires, as well. If you bought a beautiful but unobtanium tire and it is no longer in production or stock....

Honestly my experience has been the opposite. I've done a lot of business with US vendors: AB, Roversnorth, lucky8, you name it. Stock can be hit and miss, ships ground (unless you pay an arm and a leg for air), and it all comes from across the pond anyway. I mostly order from LRdirect, Turner engineering (engine parts), and Ashcroft (axles, etc) - all three ship DHL 2 day express with live shipping rates - cheaper than domestic vendor express rates - and are at my door in 2 days, and all in cost savings are 10-60%. Cam bearings? $160 domestic. From turner? Something like $35. And ironically, the bearings are US made... Durabond I believe.

edit:
cam bearings
RN- $180 "ships in 7-9 days" i.e. they order it from the UK, then re-ship it to you: https://www.roversnorth.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=STC1961
AB $175: https://www.roverparts.com/Parts/STC1961RVF
Lucky8: $155 - https://www.lucky8llc.com/products/finished-bearing-set
Turner UK: $45 : https://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/stc-1961-camshaft-bearing-set-c2x20634667
 
Last edited:

fishEH

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2009
6,927
201
Lake Villa, IL
The shipping from LR Direct is indeed freaky fast. It's like when you order something from Amazon and choose the slow shipping option to earn a movie credit or whatever.
I bought a cheap boat cover last week on Thursday and chose the slow shipping. Said it would be delivered this Friday, three days from now. All of a sudden it's on my doorstep when I get back from Easter church service. I think it is more difficult to purposely delay shipping than to just get it out quickly.

Regarding the cam bearings, it makes you wonder how long these US based companies can continue with their current business model in this global economy? Not that I want US businesses to fail, but charging 3 times as much for a product and having it take 3 times as long to get to you doesn't seem like a successful long term business plan.

Honestly my experience has been the opposite. I've done a lot of business with US vendors: AB, Roversnorth, lucky8, you name it. Stock can be hit and miss, ships ground (unless you pay an arm and a leg for air), and it all comes from across the pond anyway. I mostly order from LRdirect, Turner engineering (engine parts), and Ashcroft (axles, etc) - all three ship DHL 2 day express with live shipping rates - cheaper than domestic vendor express rates - and are at my door in 2 days, and all in cost savings are 10-60%. Cam bearings? $160 domestic. From turner? Something like $35. And ironically, the bearings are US made... Durabond I believe.

edit:
cam bearings
RN- $180 "ships in 7-9 days" i.e. they order it from the UK, then re-ship it to you: https://www.roversnorth.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=STC1961
AB $175: https://www.roverparts.com/Parts/STC1961RVF
Lucky8: $155 - https://www.lucky8llc.com/products/finished-bearing-set
Turner UK: $45 : https://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/stc-1961-camshaft-bearing-set-c2x20634667
 
Jan 3, 2005
11,745
71
On Kennith's private island
You build your dream truck, take it to a gnarly trail, bump up the rocks and ... your ring or/and pinion let go.
If you had factory ratio, the replacement is in the nearest junkyard.
If you bought something around 4.10 (4.11, 4.12) from Lucky8 or another US retailer with good stock and shipping turnaround, you just order a replacement, it arrives a day or two later, and off you go.
If you bought something overseas, it will be a little or a lot later. And it just might be out of stock - hang on 'till we get more of them parts.

I could see this being an issue if you buy from GBR. He never has anything in stock.

I don't believe R&P are a common failure point on these trucks. I see Detroits and stock carriers grenade pretty regular, but rarely R&P's. I have seen it, but maybe only once?? And I had a spare 4:11 for the guy. My theroy is to create a fuse, or a weak link. Just retain the 1300 series u-joint. I'd much rather repair a joint or driveshaft than a diff.
 

Jeff Blake

Well-known member
May 6, 2016
429
16
Pacific Beach, San Diego
The shipping from LR Direct is indeed freaky fast. It's like when you order something from Amazon and choose the slow shipping option to earn a movie credit or whatever.
I bought a cheap boat cover last week on Thursday and chose the slow shipping. Said it would be delivered this Friday, three days from now. All of a sudden it's on my doorstep when I get back from Easter church service. I think it is more difficult to purposely delay shipping than to just get it out quickly.

Regarding the cam bearings, it makes you wonder how long these US based companies can continue with their current business model in this global economy? Not that I want US businesses to fail, but charging 3 times as much for a product and having it take 3 times as long to get to you doesn't seem like a successful long term business plan.

Agreed. The examples go on and on... I saved $500 ($960 vs . $1500 domestic) by buying a set of 5 WHEELS from LRDirect, including shipping.

Small update, just amassing parts and planning while I wait for the diffs. I'm going to move that entire electrical setup in the rear side cubby area to somewhere else, and instead use that space for the tank and compressors. The idea is to build an aluminum frame / shelf-like thingy, so that the compressors are above the tank. I thought about keeping the tank where it was - up higher - and mounting the compressors to the steel window guard... but I think the pumps are too heavy for that, and it would look like crap from the outside. Also better to keep the weight lower.

Would be a lot simpler if I had the VIAIR 2-on-2 bolt on system, as the tank has built-in mounts for the compressors. But I'm not going to spend $500 and swap it out
 

p m

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 19, 2004
15,617
838
58
La Jolla, CA
www.3rj.org
I guess it depends on what and where people do.
For a club member who grenaded a transfer case in his P38A on Rubicon, having a replacement from a junkyard near Placerville was a boon.
 

jymmiejamz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2004
6,008
361
35
Los Angeles, Ca
Lets talk about this for just a bit. I'll try not to hijack the gearing thread to much. I've heard this explained a couple ways Jymmie, and I really don't know so `help me out. The way I understand it, the pistons are pretty much the same when measuring from the wrist pin center to the top of the piston. I know some of the special addition Range Rovers had high compression pistons. I'm assuming those are 4.6 engines but again I don't know.

The 4.6 pistons have a deeper dish which lowers the compression. If you use the 4.0 pistons it will raise the compression because the dish on the top of the piston isn't as deep.
 

CORover

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2007
745
65
Colorado, USA
My thought exactly! We're going with hydraulics, bounce that Disco. I am sure it will work well though.

As for the diff, I grenaded a stock one going down Vail pass on a ski trip. No warning, downshifted, kaboom, rear tires locked up, kids screaming as I am doing 360s in the fast lane. Got it under control and it stopped half on and half off the highway. State Patrol asked me why I did not pull off the road for traffic. When he saw the rear tires skipping as the tow truck loaded it, he understood why. I will not run stock Disco diffs again for any gear ratio.
 

roverover

Well-known member
Feb 27, 2005
3,819
28
68
Lancaster PA
www.UsedLandRoverParts.com
Everything wears out, On the Rover diffs the cross pins wear then spin over sizing the holes and then work their way out till they catch on something then explode. The question is when should you replace them nobody is going to go to the expense until they fail
You have the same thing with flex brake lines everybody swears by stainless lines but in reality if they had replaced their old swollen lines with most anything new there would have been a marked improvement.. Same with Head gaskets, inlet seals most of the issues we see are caused by lack of maintenance