Making D2 Brakes Better - What's the Solution?

Swedjen2

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2018
552
111
California
I've got a '90 RRC and an '04 D2.

The '90's brakes are firm right at the top, not soft, no mush, no double pumping required. If I had to lock'em up in a panic, they'd lock and squeel like a pig until the ABS kicked in.

The D2...well, I couldn't skid the tires if I tried. In a panic stop, there is no stop, just a slow-down thanks to the soft, mush filled pedal.
I've had a shop bleed the system per RAVE and after driving it, they said, "Well, that's pretty normal for the D2s". Well, that's not acceptable.
What are prople doing to get decent D2 brakes??

I know this has been a subject many times on many different sites, but what's the latest?

Thanks!
 

DiscoPhoto

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2012
2,571
70
Vermont
Not sure how to get it done on the D2, mine was always subpar. Getting rid of the ABS modulator on my D1 made it stop on a dime.
 

K-rover

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2010
2,100
43
Raleigh, NC
I have the same issue, double pumping firms them up. That tells me I have an internal leak in the master cylinder. I'll eventually get it.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
169
North Carolina
I don't completely understand why everyone seems to have trouble with DII brakes. I've owned three (one since new) and they all stopped on a dime and left nine cents change.

The pedal is mushy, mind you; annoyingly so, but I can certainly lock the wheels on tarmac from pretty much any reasonable speed. I'm running EBC brakes, but still, the others were fine, as well; and so was my main vehicle when it was stock.

Right now I need to bleed mine again, and it's a pain in the ass. Have you power bled the system recently? That clears out air in the modulator. It's not the easiest system in the world to bleed in general, but that may help. It's probably one of the most annoying, actually. I don't know where the hell all that air comes from, but once it's out they work fine.

I'm thinking that's where the majority of the issues come from.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
169
North Carolina
I have the same issue, double pumping firms them up. That tells me I have an internal leak in the master cylinder. I'll eventually get it.

Not necessarily. I replaced mine a while back for the same reason with no effect. I had to do a fuck-ton of bleeding to sort it, and it's still not quite right.

I'll get it, though. I just need some time to spend on it.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

K-rover

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2010
2,100
43
Raleigh, NC
Not necessarily. I replaced mine a while back for the same reason with no effect. I had to do a fuck-ton of bleeding to sort it, and it's still not quite right.

I'll get it, though. I just need some time to spend on it.

Cheers,

Kennith
Im going off of other people's experiences and from what Ive read. The only things on the entire brake system I havent replaced are the master cylinder and the ABS modulator. So it would make sense that after 18yrs something finally gave up in the MC.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
169
North Carolina
Im going off of other people's experiences and from what Ive read. The only things on the entire brake system I havent replaced are the master cylinder and the ABS modulator. So it would make sense that after 18yrs something finally gave up in the MC.

You're right, though. People do complain quite a bit, and I do believe them.

It's just strange, to me. Until all that sitting, I never had a lick of brake trouble minus the Amigos. Now it's going to take a few runs to get it completely air free; but when it is, it'll be great again. I mean, they never really have good pedal feel, but they do stop.

You may want to try bleeding that modulator. I think that's what's happening with other DIIs. I've encountered a lot of shops and even dealerships that have never performed the procedure before, so I'm wondering if it's ever been done on most of the vehicles. One would think the stuff would be more isolated, but I suppose not.

The Blackbox products will do it, but you can't really borrow one, as they're locked to a vehicle most of the time because most consumers just buy the licenses for one. Maybe something else does, as well, or there's a shop nearby that can do it.

I'm sure there's a way to just jump a wire somewhere, but for all I know the thing is running through some set pattern and needs to be computer-activated. I wouldn't try to redneck it unless someone else who knows more about that part of the system chimes in.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
169
North Carolina
i always had so-so brakes until i bought an obd2 reader that had two programs for power flushing and flushing the brake module.

Yup. I think that's got something to do with it. I don't know for sure, but I believe the only separation between mine and others, in regard to brakes, is the fact that I've insisted upon power bleeding the modulator at every fluid change.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Maybe someone can better illustrate it.

Cheers,

Kennith
 
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discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
6,372
477
Northern Illinois
On Disco1 I always look at the surface of all the rotors. The caliper pistons get shitted up and don't apply. I've seen a few I can't get the piston out of the caliper.
I think people who make an improvement to a Disco1 by removing the Wabco modulator must be having problems with unwanted ABS activation. Like at parking lot speed the pedal sinks and you glide thru a stop. Not sure but can't really think of anything that would fix with no codes stored.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
169
North Carolina
Air can sit in the modulator that will be next to impossible to get out unless they get cycled. It's hard to find a scanner that can do that.

My Faultmate MSV-II Extreme does it, and I believe the Nanocom does, as well. I don't know about anything else, though. I can't remember what the competing product is called. Obviously the Dealer Testbook probably does it; if they even have them anymore, but I never encountered a service tech at a dealer that understood that part of the system after a few years ago.

It's as if they replaced most of the techs, or trained them so hard on the new stuff the old stuff had to leave their brains to make room. That does happen. If you don't do something for a long time, and new procedures are installed in your head, you can flat-out forget the simplest of tasks. It certainly happens to me with some things.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Swedjen2

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2018
552
111
California
Had a very good local shop power bleed the master, modulator and calipers.
It was better, but not great for about a day, then back to a double-pump mush machine. They didn't check the master or booster though.
It's most noticeable when I look up and see a rear bumper about 10 feet off the bow. That stop and go b.s.

(The shop only does Jag and Rover and the owner's duaghter owns a D2.)
 

Swedjen2

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2018
552
111
California
On another thread, someone mentioned Tillery sold the magic combination of rotors/pads, etc that "transformed" the brakes.
Anyone familiar with the Tillery solution?

I emailed him awhile (month) ago, but no reply.
 

rovercanus

Well-known member
Apr 24, 2004
9,462
147
Call him, You'll have a better chance of getting through.
The Foxwell 520 scanner does power bleeds also.
 
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kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
169
North Carolina
On another thread, someone mentioned Tillery sold the magic combination of rotors/pads, etc that "transformed" the brakes.
Anyone familiar with the Tillery solution?

I emailed him awhile (month) ago, but no reply.

He's almost exclusively a phone guy. I don't think I've ever called him once when he was sitting on his ass. The dude is working constantly.

You can get rotors and pads that are far superior, such as those I use and probably whatever he's doing. It won't fix the pedal, though.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
169
North Carolina
Had a very good local shop power bleed the master, modulator and calipers.
It was better, but not great for about a day, then back to a double-pump mush machine. They didn't check the master or booster though.
It's most noticeable when I look up and see a rear bumper about 10 feet off the bow. That stop and go b.s.

(The shop only does Jag and Rover and the owner's duaghter owns a D2.)

It's a bit like the cooling system, at times. One procedure isn't always enough.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

coop74

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2015
287
7
Alcoa TN
Air can sit in the modulator that will be next to impossible to get out unless they get cycled. It's hard to find a scanner that can do that.
the one i have has two programs as part of the tool. One to power flush, and another to purge the modulator...
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
169
North Carolina
the one i have has two programs as part of the tool. One to power flush, and another to purge the modulator...

Yeah, but how much was it? I think my Faultmate ran up to $800 or so once the exchange rate with Cyprus at the time hit the numbers.

Not everyone is going to buy one of those, but shops will often at least have a Nanocom or similar.

Cheers,

Kennith