No Power to fuel pump, no spark, turns over. Seriously confused

[JD9900]

Did much searching to try and diagnose and cant get this figured out.

I parked the car then the next morning went to start and it just cranked over, no start.

I thought it was the fuel pump (replaced 2.5 yrs ago). Checked that and it wasn't getting power when the key was turned to position 2. I had someone turn the key while I listened to the pump, nothing. I tested the voltage and the white/purple wire was not getting any voltage. Checked the wire harness under the rear wheel well. Then checked the inertia switch, it was ok. I unplugged the multifunction unit and jumped 12V+ to the white/purple wire and got the fuel pump to run. So I dont think it is a faulty fuel pump.

Tried to start it with the pump running and it wouldn't start. Then realized that the multi function unit probably needed to be plugged in for it to run. Plugged that back in and jumped the fuel pump from the inertia switch and it still wouldn't start.

Then checked the spark. No spark. Checked all the fuses under the hood, all ok. Checked voltage to the fuse box, all ok. Checked the fuses and voltage on the fuses inside the drivers side, all ok.

This is all very strange. I thought it was the multi function relay, but not sure.

Decided to run my OBDII code reader to see if there were codes and it gives a link error. It wont read.


Another strange thing that has been happening for a few months is when I went to start it and turned the key it would not immediately turn over, then after a few seconds it would crank and start right up. This used to happen maybe 1 out of every 20 times I started it. Not sure if this is related or not.


So to summarize what I have checked:

1) jumped the fuel pump, it runs.
2) no spark when it cranks over
3) no code read on the OBDII reader
4) no check engine light
5) no 12v+ to the fuel pump
6) checked all fuses - all ok
7) checked all voltage at the fuses - all ok
8) battery voltage ok
9) inertia switch ok
10) alarm functions normally, will still lock door, etc.
11) other electrical functions normally - lights, etc.

Any help would be appreciated, dont know what else to check.

 

[aliastel]

The link error message suggests checking the ECU. Corrosion inside maybe?

David

 

[JD9900]

I took the ECU out and checked it. looked clean with no corrosion at all. I even opened it up to check for water dammage, etc. nothing. It looked perfect. Here are pictures.

 

[riceybean]

Possibly the ignition switch itself? I had a 96 that would jam up sometimes and not start at all unless I gave it few good whacks from time to time.

 

[JD9900]

the starter turns over its just not getting power to the fuel pump or spark. does that run through the ignition switch?

I also noticed that the check engine light is not on. It usually is.

 

[ptschram]

Fuse number four

 

[JD9900]

already checked all fuses. twice. and checked that there was power to the fuse terminals.

 

[carlosz]

internal short of fuse box giving false test results perhaps... it happens on p38's and d2's

 

[JD9900]

Already checked every individual fuse post with a volt meter. Everything checked out ok.

Just replaced the Multifunction relay and still no spark or fuel pump.

Does anyone have any ideas ... I read it could be the spider box (alarm) ?

 

[aliastel]

You may be on to something with the alarm. I believe it does cut spark and fuel out . I looked for the spider behind the climate control panel on my 1996, but it didn't have one. Not sure about 97 though. The alarm on mine was always doing crazy things, so it bears checking.

 

[DarylJ]

I read it could be the spider box (alarm) ?

Could be......I'd bypass it anyway before it causes you problems, even if it's not the cause right now.

Here's a great post on it: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=86

 

[JD9900]

OK. Thanks guys. I'm going to give it a shot today and look for the spider box. I read on another post that it was located behind the glove box on a 1997. Any clues before I start to get into the dash ?

 

[oneryan]

if it's not the inertia switch then check the crank position sensor..

 

[Plain2000DII]

if it's not the inertia switch then check the crank position sensor..

Bingo

 

[aliastel]

Before you dig into the spider box. I would go with the others and at least check the wiring on the crank position sensor. That also cause the no fuel or spark condition, because the engine gets its timing from the signal. The wiring often gets cooked by the exhaust. It's located down on the bellhousing on the drivers side. Follow the wiring to it and check condition. It's really not a bad idea to to go ahead and replace the sensor if its original.

 

[JD9900]

Yes. I'll check the crank position sensor tomorrow during the day. But....right now I've got the entire dash torn apart and cant find the spider box. It isn't there. I read the other thread about where it is and what it looks like. Its not there. I don't even see the wire loom or plug for it so I don't think a previous owner took it out. I'm also looking behind the glove box...got that torn apart too. this is not fun.

Any ideas on where it would be?

 

[aliastel]

Mine didn't have one either when I took it apart. I've heard that some, if not all U.S. models don't have it.

 

[Plain2000DII]

I thought it odd that on your original list of things checked, that the crank sensor wasn't one of them. What you described is exactly what happened to me. One day all is good, next morning -no starty- new ckps - starty right up. Tearing into the dashboard is way down the list of things to do.....

 

[JD9900]

so here is the current status. dash completely torn apart, no spider box. I just simply cant find it. Looked for over two hours...
one thing I did do was take the alarm receiver box out (green box) and open it up to check for corrosion or water damage. It looked fine. The strange thing is I cant get the OBDII code reader to read. It says link error. would the Crank position sensor cause this?

I also swapped the green relay in the picture above with another green relay to test.

Now when I set the alarm the LED on the dash doesn't flash anymore.
Noticed that when I try to crank the engine, I am getting the delayed cranking every time I turn the key. With the alarm receiver unplugged it would not crank at all.

Crank position sensor is the only thing left to check but it is strange the code reader wont read, makes me think it may be something with the alarm disabling access to or cutting off the computer.

Almost reached the end of the line with this.

 

[ptschram]

If you cranked the engine with the 10-AS alarm unit disconnected, you're fucked until you can find someone with a Rover-specific diag computer. I'm not even sure the Verus will allow you to put the ECU into "Security Learn Mode".

I too ma curious as to why you have a link error and suspect a fusebox issue.

What diag tools do you have? Any chance you have access to a graphing volt meter or oscilloscope? Let's rule out the CkPS before we go any further.