Parts list for D1 swivel preload job

[discostew]

I just want to

Hmm - guess i missed that - thanks! Will try that tomorrow.

I think I should tell you that your plan to just take out a thin shim is a bad one. Also keep in mind I take the caliper off the truck and leave it attached to the brake line. Hang it from the spring with a coat hanger.

I know a lot of people will do what your doing with just removing a shim and hoping for the best. After doing lots and lots of these I would never go thru all that on just a hope and prayer that it makes it to the correct preload. Getting the preload right will make the truck drive so much better. Its worth doing the whole job.

 

[p m]

Its worth doing the whole job.

But that's a lot bigger job, needing removal of the axleshaft and swivel seal.
As far as parts go, start with buying a pack of 0.25mm shims. The factory set seems to be a mix of 1mm and very thin ones (0.03 and 0.05, IIRC).

 

[Tugela]

But that's a lot bigger job, needing removal of the axleshaft and swivel seal.

It's true, there are more steps involved in doing the complete job and doing it correctly. But if a shade tree mechanic who works at the painfully slow pace that I do can finish this project in one afternoon - on both sides, no less - then most halfway competent people should be able to do the same, if not better. From post #3 in this thread:

I just did a complete swivel rebuild myself. And by "just", I mean when I was home 3 months ago. It was easy but went slowly. I went all in and replaced the swivel pins, CV shaft end bearings, wheel bearings, swivel bearings, shims, 1-shot, seals, the works. But only because my truck has 150K miles and I don't think any previous owner touched any of these things and I always get sucked into the "While I have everything apart I might as well also..." mentality.

 

[discostew]

We've had this conversation before. I just don't think it's that much harder to do it the right way. You don't have to replace the swivel ball seal, just get it out of the housing and then put it back. It might take a couple hours a side. There was a bulletin that called it a steering improvement procedure. I think it paid 4.6 hours. If the trucks a '98 then you should replace the flat roller bearing if the cage is plastic. They did that plastic caged bearing only that year.

 

[Jimmy]

Shim list I dug up on the 'net:

Non-ABS: 0.003" part# 571743 0.005" part# 571744 0.010" part# 571745 0.030" part# 571746

ABS: 0.003" part# FRC2883 0.005" part# FRC2884 0.010" part# FRC2885 0.030" part# FRC2886

I did the full job last December. After the experience of getting the right thickness of shims in there for appropriate preload (which I did by feel versus using the special tool), I'd recommend only removing one 0.003" shim (if you must go this route). Or, figuring out what the thickness of the set of shim currently installed is, and reinstalling with no more than 0.003 removed. It made that much of a difference in the feel. I did the full job since I was swapping out the swivels; mine were pitted quite a bit and the swivel seals were leaking badly (was running gear oil versus one shot).

I will also say that a few years prior, I pulled a shim on each side in the hopes of getting rid of (or at least reducing) the death wobble I had. I couldn't tell you which shim I pulled; I'd like to think I pulled one which was the thinnest. I don't even recall if it reduced the death wobble. What I can say is, as part of the full job, I tore down the assembly to just the swivel and knuckle to "feel" the rotation. It sucked! It was not smooth and left me wondering if blindly pulling a shim was the smart decision back then. I wondered if I put too much preload into it.

The rebuild (which included new wheel bearings) made it drive better than it EVER has in the 14 years I've had it. It was stunning.

I'm sold on doing it right, versus blindly pulling a shim... there's no way to know if you're doing harm or good.

 

[Chuckwagon976]

In the middle of a complete tear down of all four wheels. Painfully slow, but very doable. Found this series on youtube very helpful. Rave also a great resource along with the videos.

Land Rover Front Axle Overhaul Tutorials

Td5 Defender , Discovery, Defender to the 300tdi Range Rover Classic. In these tutorials we take you through overhauling the components on the front axle. Ma...

www.youtube.com

 

[WaltNYC]

It's true, there are more steps involved in doing the complete job and doing it correctly. But if a shade tree mechanic who works at the painfully slow pace that I do can finish this project in one afternoon - on both sides, no less - then most halfway competent people should be able to do the same, if not better. From post #3 in this thread:

Another shade tree mechanic here. It takes a bit of time to do it properly, but you should be done with a day's work.

Here is my parts list for both fronts.

I found Trevor at Rovahfarm to have the best pricing for the whole job. He is also super knowledgeable and able to add some expertise.

 

[Knightspirit]

Well - I tried the pull the thinnest shim routine and it did nothing for my wobble. I just finished replacing all of the rear bushings including the ball joint at the dif - this after having already replaced all of the front bushing and ball joints and the steering damper, and guess what? WOBBLE!

I have to say - I am rather enjoying working on the Disco - Harbor Freight and Will T. are my new best friends! So I'm going all in on the two front wheel rebuilds, thanks to having all of the info here in this thread. I was wondering also if having the swivel-pin preload too tight could be worse than just leaving it alone. Since I removed the shims - I am now leaking gear oil from both sides plus my anti-lock brake light is on - so the writing is on the wall, lol!

Thanks for the great info in this thread!

 

[p m]

Well - I tried the pull the thinnest shim routine and it did nothing for my wobble.

Have you checked Panhard rod bushings, tie rod ends, and bolts holding the steering box to frame?

 

[Knightspirit]

Have you checked Panhard rod bushings, tie rod ends, and bolts holding the steering box to frame?

Panhard bushing are new (all bushings front and rear are new) - tie rod ends are new, steering shaft replaced, steering box adjusted. I'll check the steering box bolts. Nothing is loose - the truck drives tight.

What's really odd to me is that when I got the truck - and had replaced nothing - it didn't have the wobble. It only started after I started replacing bushings and ball joints. Checked the alignment twice - not even a mm off. Honestly - I don't think my swivels are even worn. This car has never been modified or driven off road - everything is stock and untouched. Next step is to properly adjust the preload and check for any play - which I will do and take a test drive before starting a complete rebuild of both sides. Only other thing to do are new shocks and springs - but have read where that can fix it for a while and then it just comes back - so you have to get to the underlying cause - which I am still hoping to find... I guess there is a chance that the tie rod or panhard bar are wanky - but I would call that a long shot.

 

[p m]

One more question - is it vibration in a turn, or while driving straight?

If in the straight-line driving - all you said puts you in the same boat as I am with my last 95 LWB. Everything is tight, and yet there's vibration.

Three more things to check -
- tires being out of round (lift an axle at a time, put on jackstands, put a brick next to the outer surface of the tire tread, rotate and see what the max runout is);
- one or both front shock absorbers or their bushings worn out (observe the motion of the lower end of each shock as someone else pushes the front end of the vehicle down repeatedly);
- if you have steel wheels, they may have runout - check similar to tire runout, but with a corner of a brick or something better against the edge of the rim.

 

[discostew]

If you made it too tight it won't return to center after a turn.

 

[Knightspirit]

One more question - is it vibration in a turn, or while driving straight?

If in the straight-line driving - all you said puts you in the same boat as I am with my last 95 LWB. Everything is tight, and yet there's vibration.

Three more things to check -
- tires being out of round (lift an axle at a time, put on jackstands, put a brick next to the outer surface of the tire tread, rotate and see what the max runout is);
- one or both front shock absorbers or their bushings worn out (observe the motion of the lower end of each shock as someone else pushes the front end of the vehicle down repeatedly);
- if you have steel wheels, they may have runout - check similar to tire runout, but with a corner of a brick or something better against the edge of the rim.

Not a turn related thing - driving straight, there is absolutely no vibration - runs smooth and tight until I hit a series of small bumps - like lines across the road for instance, and it starts a complete full body shimmy. Can happen at 30 mph or at any speed. It will not stop until you practically come to a full stop. I am essentially un-driveable at this point, as freeways are not an option. I did replace upper bushings on the shocks - and they seem to be fine. What irks me is that I drove the truck for several 300+ mile trips before I started all of this with no wobble at all - which makes me think tires/shocks are OK. Wheels ore original - not steel.

It's kind of amazing how many people seem to encounter this and there doesn't seem to be any one thing causing it. Frustrating! I'm actually hoping that my swivel housing is loose or the swivel pins are shot - at least that would give me something to pin it to...

 

[p m]

You should have started with this description.
I would seriously look at your rear suspension. My guess is that BOTH upper A-arm ball joint AND one or both trailing arms' bushings are worn out.

 

[Knightspirit]

You should have started with this description.
I would seriously look at your rear suspension. My guess is that BOTH upper A-arm ball joint AND one or both trailing arms' bushings are worn out.

I think you missed my rundown:

ALL front bushings and balljoints replaced
ALL rear bushings and rear ball joint at diff replaced
Steering shaft replaced
Steering box adjusted
Checked all bolts re steering box to frame etc - all tight
Checked shocks and replaced upper front shock bushings - could still be a rear shock issue - but am not seeing anything obvious.

I was really hoping that it was a rear bushing/ball joint issue - but alas it didn't help!
Ordering the Swivel Pin rebuild kits next.

 

[p m]

ALL rear bushings and rear ball joint at diff replaced

Well, rear axle is out as a cause then.
Any play between the pitman arm and sector shaft on the box? It is rare, but it can be loose.

 

[Knightspirit]

Just an FYI for anyone about to rebuild their swivels - the following two kits from Bearmach, UK cover everything on this list except for the lower swivel pin and gaskets, and the specific shims listed.

BK 0153S - swivel pin kit

BK 0105 - wheel bearing kit


Swivel seal FTC3401 Included
Front driveshaFT SEAL FTC3276 Included
Swivel to axle gasket FTC36416 Included
Drive member to hub gasket 571752 Included
Top swivel bush FTC125 not required for your Vin
Hub seal RTC3511 incorrect for your vin CORRECT SEAL Included in BK 0105
Swivel pin shims - .003, .005, .01, .03 FRC2883-6 3 each NO - One of each size here BR 3639 0.75, BR 3640 0.130, BR 3641 0.250, BR 3642 0.750mm included
upper swivel pin w/thrust washers and bearing STC226 (kit) Included
Lower swivel pin FRC2894 not included
Lower pin gasket FTC3647 not included
Stub axle gasket FTC3648 Included
Taper roller bearing, lower 606666 Included
Needle bearing FTC2065 Included
Thrust washer FTC2066 Included
Front driveshaFT SEAL FTC3276 Included

Total price with shipping and tax was just under $200. Same parts from Atlantic British were coming in at over $500! Strange!

 

[Knightspirit]

After completing this whole project - I am now getting the anti-lock brake light on the dash - and it isn't clearing. Anyone else get this after replacing the upper swivel pins? Do I need to disconnect the battery to clear this?

Thanks!

 

[p m]

After completing this whole project - I am now getting the anti-lock brake light on the dash - and it isn't clearing. Anyone else get this after replacing the upper swivel pins? Do I need to disconnect the battery to clear this?

You have to clear it yourself, it won't go away on its own. Likely, one or both front sensors are either not fully seated, or they exhibit intermittent failure by repeated bending of non-stress-relieved cables going into them.

 

[Knightspirit]

You have to clear it yourself, it won't go away on its own. Likely, one or both front sensors are either not fully seated, or they exhibit intermittent failure by repeated bending of non-stress-relieved cables going into them.

Clear with a scanner then? Definitely seated properly.