School me on driveline

Jan 3, 2005
11,727
60
On Kennith's private island
I don't really understand your logic. You're not building a rock crawler and the main purpose of the truck is driving the back roads of Utah, but you want to keep the Salisbury/D60 because it's beefy and perfect for what you do? That's basically the same axle they put in rock buggies, although different inner axles, to run 44" swampers and 400hp.

And 3.54:1 gears with a 300tdi? I've never spent a lot of time driving a 300tdi truck, but the little time I have spent has had be wanting more get-up-and-go, especially on gradual grades. Maybe you can live with that. But the 3.54:1 gears are weak. The gears would now be the weak link in your drivetrain. You're adding "HD" axles and CVs and a TT, but you're going to keep the weak stock gearing? I don't know if you went the Tom Woods route with 1310 u-joints on your driveshafts, but I would guess the 3.54 gears would crumble even before a 1300 u-joint popped.

I don't get why folks like these Salisbury axles unless you're going to be getting into some rough terrain. With some 35-spline inners, aftermarket gears, and a DT locker you'd have a set-up that would probably never fail. But it's a beast of an axle. It needs to be shaved and you need tires tall enough to get it off the ground. You'll see.

Jeff makes a good point about the drum brakes, too. Who still runs drum brakes in 2015? Convert that shit if you're hell bent on keeping that axle. One of the single biggest mistakes people make, especially on Dweb, is overlooking the braking systems on these trucks when modifying the truck from stock. They lift the truck, add larger tires (in your case heavy as fuck tires), toss on a heavy winch bumper and winch, cram the cargo area full of crap, but never think twice about how all the affects braking. I saw your "build" thread on EE and you're more worried about the fucking brake fluid than actually addressing the real issue.
 

chris snell

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2005
3,017
145
The Sals is put on this vehicle for it's vehicle load rating, not for its driveline power rating or off-road prowess. It's the right axle for the 3-door 110. I don't need to "fix" the engineering of this vehicle with a RRC/D1 axle just so I can run an Ashcroft air locker or some 32-spline Toyota conversion. I don't need that shit and that axle is potentially ill-suited for the 110 at max GVW. I'm probably one of the few people here who has ever broken a D1/RRC/D90 axle housing. I realize that the failure was due to a poor factory weld but I've experienced it first-hand so forgive me if I don't want to run a potentially under-rated, non-stock axle on my truck. That's just not happening.

As for brakes, there's nothing wrong with drum brakes at all. They supposedly have diminished wet weather performance but I live in one of the wettest towns in the USA and I've never noticed it. I've got 15,000 miles on this truck, at least half of which are off-pavement with a cargo bay full of heavy shit. I've never once had a problem with brake strength or brake fade.

Dan, you're showing your cluelessness when you suggest 4.11 gears on a three hundy. This truck has outstanding get-up-and-go and climbs anything I need it to in 1st-Low. 4.11 would be a disaster. It would be worse than my 2.5NA. As it stands, I can do 70mph on the freeway or put along on a county road in third getting milage in the high 20's. This truck is just about perfect. It doesn't even really need the lockers.
 

chris snell

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2005
3,017
145
The Sals is put on this vehicle for it's vehicle load rating, not for its driveline power rating or off-road prowess. It's the right axle for the 3-door 110. I don't need to "fix" the engineering of this vehicle with a RRC/D1 axle just so I can run an Ashcroft air locker or some 32-spline Toyota conversion. I don't need that shit and that axle is potentially ill-suited for the 110 at max GVW. I'm probably one of the few people here who has ever broken a D1/RRC/D90 axle housing. I realize that the failure was due to a poor factory weld but I've experienced it first-hand and that shit left me stranded at the beginning of a trip in one of the most remote spots in the lower 48. Forgive me if I don't want to run a potentially under-rated, non-stock axle on my truck. LOL.

As for brakes, there's nothing wrong with drum brakes at all. They are plenty powerful. They supposedly have diminished wet weather performance but I live in one of the wettest towns in the USA and I've never noticed it. I've got 15,000 miles on this truck, at least half of which are off-pavement with a cargo bay full of heavy shit. The other half are mostly on city streets in the rain. I've never once had a problem with brake strength or brake fade.

Dan, you're showing your cluelessness when you suggest 4.11 gears on a three hundy. This truck has outstanding get-up-and-go and climbs anything I need it to in 1st-Low. 4.11 would be a disaster. It would be worse than my 2.5NA. As it stands, I can do 70mph on the freeway or put along on a county road in third getting milage in the high 20's. This truck is just about perfect. It doesn't even really need the lockers.
 

jymmiejamz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2004
5,817
229
33
Los Angeles, Ca
The rear drum brakes on my 110 would lock up pretty easily when wet, but other than that, I had no issues with them. I can't think of any time I thought I needed more braking power, even when towing.
 

chris snell

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2005
3,017
145
Let's hear your argument for tossing out the Sals and spending the money to put together an entirely new axle setup, Dan. Is it....the 1/4" of extra ground clearance? The ability to run an Ashcroft locker that I don't need? The ability to interchange axles with friends? (hint: many of my wheeling buddies run the Sals) The 30 lbs of saved weight? Disc brakes?
 
Jan 3, 2005
11,727
60
On Kennith's private island
Let's hear your argument for tossing out the Sals and spending the money to put together an entirely new axle setup, Dan. Is it....the 1/4" of extra ground clearance?

1/4"? Hardly. The Sals is a potato plow. It's fucking huge. The ring gear alone is 1.5" larger in diameter. But the housing itself is much larger than that. I don't know exactly what the measurement would be from the bottom of the axle housing to the center-line of the axle, but it's far greater than 1/4". We're talking some where between 2" and 3", easy. I mean, look at this lump!

sals-diff-swap-151-900x675.jpg


That's a huge differential. That's not just huge, that's a fucking monster. That's basically the same axle I have in my Ford F-250 Super Duty with over 300hp and 500ftlbs of torque. The weight of my Ford not only exceeds the weight of your truck, but my truck alone exceeds the weight of your truck plus the max payload of your truck.

Now, I could see that axle in a 110 pick-up truck that's used for work. I have a Chevy 2wd 2500 with a GM 14-bolt in it. The 14-bolt is probably stronger than the D60 in the rear of my Ford, but is capable of carrying half the payload. Over kill? Maybe. I could probably get by just fine with a shitty 10-bolt.

That explains how "beefy" your rear axle is and probably why they put in in the 110 in the first place. I doubt the British army had crawling around the back roads of Utah with your Engle fridge, North Face tent, and Snow Peak tea set in mind when they built the 110. Rather, they probably loaded down the truck with troops, supplies, ambulance bodies, armor, or fire engine pumps.


The ability to run an Ashcroft locker that I don't need?

It really does not matter what locker you run to me. You came here asking to be schooled on Defender driveline. I learned something, too. But if I had my choice I would take that Ashcroft locker over a Detroit any day of the week. Don't get me wrong, the DT is a nice locker. We could argue for days the pros and cons of a mechanical locker vs a selectable. It's personal preference. I've owned both and to me I like one over the other.

The ability to interchange axles with friends? (hint: many of my wheeling buddies run the Sals)

Chances are you would never have to swap axles with friends as you wold never break an aftermarket Sals axle, or carrier, or R&P. You will, however, break your front 3.54 R&P. They break just by spinning in the mud. You spin on a rock in Utah and it's going to be a disaster. Now you could peg the front diff and buy yourself some time. But when that big ass rear diff hangs you up and you start spinning the front, you'll be doing more than swapping diffs with friends.

The Rover 3rd's are such a great design. You pop them out and work on them on the work bench or the tailgate of your truck. I installed a new carrier in a Rover diff wearing a white shirt in about 20 minutes once and never even got dirty. It does not work that way with a Sals. It's possible you could find a carrier bearing or other parts for your Sals at a parts store easy enough, but it's going to take you hours to shim that diff back up properly so you don't burn your gears up on the way home. If you've never rebuilt your Sals diff, I encourage you to give it a shot sometime. Let us know how it goes.


The 30 lbs of saved weight?

You're kidding, right? Not that unsprung weight really matters.


Disc brakes?

You still think drum brakes are superior to disc brakes?

I can't even fathom the idea of coming down one of those Colorado passes with drum brakes. I bet the brake fade is about as awesome as when I raced a motorcycle down a Virginia mountain in my dads Chrysler LeBaron back in 96. I'm not saying you can't stop with your current set-up, but why would you go through all that work you've done and not address the shitty braking system?

Personally, I think you should put some drum brakes on the front, too.
 

jafir

Well-known member
May 4, 2011
1,628
0
Northwest Arkansas
That explains how "beefy" your rear axle is and probably why they put in in the 110 in the first place. I doubt the British army had crawling around the back roads of Utah with your Engle fridge, North Face tent, and Snow Peak tea set in mind when they built the 110. Rather, they probably loaded down the truck with troops, supplies, ambulance bodies, armor, or fire engine pumps.


All 110s had the sals. (Up until about 2002). It's not like the 109 where it was an upgrade for the MOD.
 

jafir

Well-known member
May 4, 2011
1,628
0
Northwest Arkansas
You made it sound like the only reason to have it was if you were going to load your vehicle like the British army did. Land Rover obviously thought there was a reason the put a stronger axle in the 110 than they put in the 90 or Range Rover.
 

chris snell

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2005
3,017
145
D Chapman said:
You still think drum brakes are superior to disc brakes?

I never said that drums were superior. I said that they work:

chris snell said:
As for brakes, there's nothing wrong with drum brakes at all.


D Chapman said:
I can't even fathom the idea of coming down one of those Colorado passes with drum brakes. I bet the brake fade is about as awesome as when I raced a motorcycle down a Virginia mountain in my dads Chrysler LeBaron back in 96. I'm not saying you can't stop with your current set-up, but why would you go through all that work you've done and not address the shitty braking system?

I can tell you haven't spent much time in a manual transmission Defender, much less one with a three hundy. These trucks have amazing engine braking. I drove this truck over Monarch Pass, loaded down with all my shit. I never even touched my brakes. Fourth gear and let it engine brake the whole way down. I did the same thing in my V8 truck although it was less effective. You drive an automatic transmission Disco and LR3 so I don't blame you for not knowing the reality of my truck but I do find it entertaining to watch you talk out of your ass like you're some kind of Defender Jedi.
 

jafir

Well-known member
May 4, 2011
1,628
0
Northwest Arkansas
There are disc brakes for sals. No sense in converting to a disco axle if the drum brakes are the biggest complaint.

Though I personally hate working on drum brakes. That was 50% of why I put a disco axle in my 90.
 

Roverdoc

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2004
1,100
0
43
California
Feeling like Dweb around here again. Thanks Chris and Dan. Chris, let me know when you are getting rid of the detroit. I want to swap out my rear trutrac 4.11 for a detroit 4.11
 

chris snell

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2005
3,017
145
Feeling like Dweb around here again. Thanks Chris and Dan. Chris, let me know when you are getting rid of the detroit. I want to swap out my rear trutrac 4.11 for a detroit 4.11

Hey dude! It's sitting in a painters bucket, ready to ship. PM me.
 

p m

Administrator
Apr 19, 2004
14,812
347
56
La Jolla, CA
www.3rj.org
One thing is true - screwing around with a Dana/Spicer diff is a lot more involved than with a 3-rd member-style axle.
I didn't know your truck had a Detroit in the rear, Chris.