SD Roof Rack Flooring

jymmiejamz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2004
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Los Angeles, Ca
For those of you with Starboard flooring on your SD rack, how did you attach it to the rack? Right now our Disco has the classic chicken coop flooring, but I don't like how it limits how you can strap down items and it also isn't really suitable for mounting a jerry can holder.

I was thinking of using rivnuts drilled directly into the rack, but I'm sure that will lead to the rack rusting out.

I should also add, since this was always part of the debate with the chicken coop flooring, that the zip ties have deteriorated from the sun and I had a couple snap yesterday when I was strapping stuff down.

 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
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North Carolina
I used outdoor rated stainless D clamps, such as those you might use to attach wiring to flat surfaces. They include rubber insulators, and are available in the tube size. I then drilled through the HDPE, counter-sunk the holes, and passed 1/4X20 stainless machine screws through, fastened by a washer, a lock washer, a nylock nut, and a dab of Loctite.

Now, there's a reason I did it in this specific way, and it's a good one.

That's a lot of polymer, and the stuff expands and contracts a bit. The hardware holds it down under the most abusive conditions, but the fact that the rubber will indeed give just a touch, and the D clamps can indeed slide a bit under great force allow such expansion and contraction. No matter the weather, it's always perfectly flat and not under stress.

This also keeps such forces off the hardware. If they move a bit, and all of them move a bit, they can each take up a small portion of that expansion or contraction without having to slip all over the place. It's solid as a rock up there. The stuff isn't dirt cheap, but it's not particularly expensive.

The HDPE alone costs quite a bit, and at that point the hardware cost is essentially immaterial.

Some use U bolts. I didn't, because I don't like putting two holes right next to each other on HDPE that's expected to alternate between tension and compression, and I wanted it to have "breathing room". It holds up fine on washboards. The rubber insulators will go eventually, but various materials are available; each with different properties.

They're small enough and cheap enough to carry spares for the rubber, or just do what I do and carry a couple of bicycle inner tubes. If you lose the rubber, though, it's not the end of the world. It'll just rattle if enough go. It takes a long time for that to happen. Age gets them, not mileage or abuse.

The whole point is to keep stress off the assembly. So long as it's not stressed, you can go jump school buses through rings of fire if you like. It'll stay up there.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

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kennith

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Apr 22, 2004
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Notice the hardware is offset from the tubes. That's because this is how the floor is attached.

You can go in any direction with quality, but even just regular old rubber holds up fine for a number of years.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

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kennith

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Apr 22, 2004
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North Carolina
One more thing:

You really want to consider those holes I cut. There are two in the front, and four in the rear. Their placement will be obvious as hell. The picture I posted shows you all you need to know to find the spots. They allow you to more securely fasten cargo by keeping the straps closer to small items, such as a single water can, wood, chainsaws, PVC tube... You get the idea. You can also strap front to back over a shorter distance.

I used a hole saw I keep around for case-modding, but be warned!

It may seem to cut like wood, but it ain't wood. You have to manage your speed carefully, hold that drill dead straight, and keep your tongue in your mouth.

If you don't, you'll regret it very quickly. A hole saw that big is a lot of leverage, and it will bind easily as things heat up if you aren't careful.

I've been cutting polymer over here for many years, but that first time with a hole saw through HDPE that thick will be... Illustrative. Absolutely test a piece if you've never done it before. Test your cutting methods, as well. Wood-specific blades will cut it, but the speed you'll be moving is hard to describe, and I've never actually measured it.

Make a few 1-2ft practice cuts. Buy a smaller piece or find some scrap to do this if you're too close to dimension, or just get a whole "4X8" (you're often buying it like lumber, so it may be bigger and not necessarily straight) sheet and use the extra area. Go to a boat store... Whatever. Just practice first. HDPE is expensive, and if you fuck up royally on a large piece, you'll not be a happy camper.

I don't want this post to run anyone off of using HDPE, as it's pretty easy once you get the hang of it, but it's also really easy for those who do it all the time to forget to warn people about the headaches involved. They may be minor, but failing to mention them can lead to pointless expense or injury.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

jgdisco2

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Feb 24, 2006
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Goldsboro, NC
I use UV zip ties and just change them each year. Also with tie downs I just cut a few pieces out where I needed it. I’m at work now or else I’d snap a picture ( I have the chicken coop flooring)
 

jymmiejamz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2004
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Los Angeles, Ca
I use UV zip ties and just change them each year. Also with tie downs I just cut a few pieces out where I needed it. I’m at work now or else I’d snap a picture ( I have the chicken coop flooring)

I'm not a chicken coop flooring hater. I just think I want to go a different route. I think the Starboard looks much cleaner.
 

CORover

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2007
745
65
Colorado, USA
I lost a section last month and did not even know it. I looked at the rack from the upstairs window and it was missing a section. Went back and traced my steps, it was right at the beginning of our neighborhood. Must have flown off when I turned up the street. The cable ties were all gone and the flooring did not even have a scratch on it. I am still looking for the perfect solution. Obviously I did not replace the ties in time.
 

K-rover

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Jan 15, 2010
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Raleigh, NC
I used HDPE to replace my rear quarter glass after I kept breaking it while wheeling. That stuff is super strong and very flexible, BUT it does expand quite a bit in direct sunlight. I bought a 4x8 1/8" sheet for right at $100.
 

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kennith

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Apr 22, 2004
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I'm not a chicken coop flooring hater. I just think I want to go a different route. I think the Starboard looks much cleaner.

You're going to love what this does for your climate control in the summer. (y)

I went with 1/2", which is quite a bit more than $100. I'm not sure I'd go for 1/8" on a rack floor, but it's fine for that window. I'd say the absolute, bleeding, edge of the razor lower limit for anything spanning those distances (upon which you intend to stand periodically) is 1/4".

If you have trouble deciding what thickness to use even after looking up properties, go to Bed, Bath, and Beyond. Find the polymer cutting boards; the sort that are generally textured, translucent white, and reasonably heavy; though they do come in other colors. It's the same material (just like a milk jug), and you can see how easily it'll flex in varying thicknesses. At the very least you'll be able to test one of them, which should give you a general idea of what you can expect.

Remember you'll be fastening it to the rack, and it's a large sheet, so it won't flex nearly as much in practice as it will in the test. Get thick enough, and you won't usually notice. If you go too thin, though, even attached to the rack it'll find a way to flex noticeably (especially when you step near the front of the rear section), and it's ability to resist penetration will be compromised.

Another factor to consider, in that regard, is cold weather. It's tough stuff, but as it gets thinner, the likelihood of a crack under sharp and/or sudden force increases dramatically in very cold conditions.

Cheers,

Kennith
 
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kennith

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Apr 22, 2004
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I keep thinking of stuff...

If you cut the holes, absolutely hit them with a router or otherwise smooth them over. You don't want your boot catching on a sharp edge nearly eight feet in the air on a small, swaying platform.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

jymmiejamz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2004
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I keep thinking of stuff...

If you cut the holes, absolutely hit them with a router or otherwise smooth them over. You don't want your boot catching on a sharp edge nearly eight feet in the air on a small, swaying platform.

Cheers,

Kennith

I was thinking about using one of these router bits for the tie down holes
. klein-abrundfraeser1.jpg
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
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That's what I used. (y)

I'd send you mine, but I was looking for it just last week and have no clue where it is.

You'll find routing is also a matter of very specific speeds. Both moving too fast and too slow will provide nearly immediate negative results. So, again, practice everything several times.

With wood or metal it's not a big deal. With polymers of that volume, however, that changes. It's not as if you can just hop down to the store and pick up a sheet in a few hours for $30. It's several hundred dollars and a couple of weeks at the least. :eek:

Cheers,

Kennith
 

K-rover

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Jan 15, 2010
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Raleigh, NC
Ive tried to break the HDPE and even folding it 180 degrees back on itself and I still cant break it or crack. Again thats 1/8". Im sure 1/4" would be more than enough. I bought mine from Piedmont Plastics. They have a warehouse down the road here in Raleigh and had 40-50 sheets in stock. They even will do straight cuts for free. They had 2 different kinds of HDPE. Cant remember the differences, but I went with the cheaper of the two. I had no issues cutting or drilling it either. Just used a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade and low speeds. Regular drill bits worked fine, and so did the countersink bits. It can be sanded and is chemical and paint resistant. Thats why I had to use screws vs adhesive. Google Piedmont plastics. They have locations around the country.
 
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kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Anywhere you'd recommend I buy from? West Marine sells a 48"x54"x1/2" for $359. I know that wouldn't cover the whole rack.

Where are you located now? U.S. Plastics has U/V stabilized, textured sheet. Pretty sure that's where I bought that piece. I have another sheet, but shipping it would be more expensive from me than it would someone who makes a business of shipping the stuff whole.

I think they're branding the stabilized sheet "Seaboard". Doesn't really matter what it's called unless it gets you two finished edges.

I personally just cut a piece for the rear and one for the front. I didn't want to have a giant, unbroken piece up there. You could do it, as this stuff can be shaped with a heat gun, but that's a lot of work and one hell of a wing.

Ive tried to break the HDPE and even folding it 180 degrees back on itself and I still cant break it or crack. Again thats 1/8". Im sure 1/4" would be more than enough. I bought mine from Piedmont Plastics. They have a warehouse down the road here in Raleigh and had 40-50 sheets in stock. They even will do straight cuts for free. They had 2 different kinds of HDPE. Cant remember the differences, but I went with the cheaper of the two. I had no issues cutting or drilling it either. Just used a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade and low speeds. Regular drill bits worked fine, and so did the countersink bits. It can be sanded and is chemical and paint resistant. Thats why I had to use screws vs adhesive. Google Piedmont plastics. They have locations around the country.

Jigsaws are about the best way to get through that stuff, but not everyone can keep them straight easily. You'll want some butch blades to ensure they don't just start drunkenly scalloping their way down the line where you can't see it happening. The Bosch units usually have enough meat in them.

HDPE is tough stuff. That's why it's used for wheel well liners and milk jugs. Hell, if you laminate it right it can help stop a bullet, but it will indeed break if it's pushed. It "work hardens" in it's own way, and becomes more sensitive after years of exposure and in cold temperatures. It's better than plywood, of course, but you can indeed crack it if the right conditions are met.

It won't tear or split from just stepping on it within it's temperature range, but it's a touch slippery. Too much flex in the rain, on something that's already a bit slick, can add up to an injury without a fun story to go with it eventually. It's not hard to walk on, but it's not chicken coop or plywood, either. That same slick factor both helps load and unload cargo, and yet makes strap positioning more important for retention.

It's a give and take.

Of course, nothing is going to beat that clean look. There are no practicality concerns, in the end. The weight won't be a problem up there, it's not too slippery to be safe (people walk on it in boats all the time), and it's got a very wide temperature range. Cut it right, and it'll absolutely out-last your interest in reaching up that high; and it'll always look new when wiped down. (y)

As for breaking:

There's one small section I had to cut off the rack when a piece split off. I tried to fly too close to the sun when fitting that, and a stress riser caused a split when the sun caused it to expand on a cold day in the rear corner where the light tab is. Rack got smaller, sheet got bigger, and that one corner got stuck right where I thought it would; the one place that had nowhere to go. That little piece bound up and snapped right off like an ice cream bar.

Oh, well. It was worth a try. The other option was to cut it exactly where it snapped, anyway. No harm done.

It was a "Why not?" feature; about a two inch width that I figured I'd leave for aesthetics if it would stay. Didn't surprise me. The piece wasn't required, but it does illustrate the sort of conditions under which HDPE will break. A lot has to be happening at once at the right temperature.

It's certainly resistant to most chemicals. That can be a problem, at times. It's very difficult to get anything to stick to it. So far as I am aware, there is still only one product out there that will actually stick it to anything else. 3M makes it, and it's just not priced or packaged for small jobs.

Even Dynamat Extreme comes right off with no residue, and if you've ever got that soft butyl stuck on anything else in the universe shy of a Teflon frying pan, you know how impressive that is. :)

Truck bed liners, wheel wells, milk jugs, cutting boards, coolers, rotary molded cases... HDPE is chosen for those uses for solid reasons, but notice that every last one of them avoids sharp corners and leaves room to expand and contract.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

specops1526

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2007
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11
Los Angeles, CA
Right now our Disco has the classic chicken coop flooring, but I don't like how it limits how you can strap down items and it also isn't really suitable for mounting a jerry can holder.

Just curious how you're limited to strapping down items with the chicken coop? Does yours not have big cut outs where the bars cross underneath?

I cut a bunch of holes in mine before I installed it and I used huge UV zip ties that have lasted probably 8-9 years. I probably have some extras if you need some.

I agree though, the starboard looks much better but costs much more clearly.
 

CORover

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2007
745
65
Colorado, USA
Which zip ties did you use? Mine did not last very long, a year or two maybe and I let them go too long and they started to crack. The sun here really eats them up.
 

specops1526

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2007
845
11
Los Angeles, CA
Which zip ties did you use? Mine did not last very long, a year or two maybe and I let them go too long and they started to crack. The sun here really eats them up.

I think I bought them from Farmtek at the time, I believe. They are pretty wide with some sort of UV rating. I'd link to them but the Farmtek site sucks and I can't find them. It's been almost 10 years. Granted my truck was stored indoors up until 2 years ago.
 

chris snell

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2005
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152
Do you do CAD? I'll bet that ABS brackets would hold it really well and you could design some and print them on a 3D printer.