Silicon Impregnated Nylon

[bri]

This is the coolest product making it into camping. I have just been sold on it big time. I wish I could just afford to replace all my heavy stuff with this material that is less htan 1.5 oz per square yard.

I did however rationalize these:

SilShelter:
http://www.integraldesigns.com/bshl.htm
G-pack:
http://www.gregorypacks.com/prod.php?ID=15
Packing System:
http://www.granitegear.com/products/packing_systems/air_line/index.shtml

These products alone save me about 5-6 pounds. A new down bag saved me another. Not to mention space.

Now off on a tangent...
If you really want a trick pack and are not hell bent on really low weight (it is pretty light though), then check this out. Top/Botton/Front access, adjustable harness... the list goes on.
http://www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/ultralight/nimbus_latitude/index.shtml

Another space/wight saver is this item. Assuming that you are not dealing with super grungy water supply and can wait 30 minutes, this is killer:
http://www.msrcorp.com/filters/miox.asp


Brian

 

[offroven]

That stuff is awesome, I work in a camping store and our Gregory rep just stopped by last week, he demonstrated the materials strength/resiliency by sticking a bic pen though it, then worked the material around between his fingers and the hole was gone. The Miox is definately sick.

 

[bri]

Yeah, when I purchased the pack they showed me that demo and I promptly asked to get another. I pointed out to the guy where all the bic pen holes were. It does repair *pretty* well.

The reason is that with the nylon and silicon the threads of the fabric *tend* to separate and let the object through. Scraps and non-pointy objects will still cut or rip it though and it really is very light weight (ususally 30 denier nylon), so it is not going to handle really harsh treatment.

Brian

 

[dent]

does this stuff had rip stop on it too?

 

[jmonsrvr]

silicone impregnated nylon has been around for a while now. over ten years. moss tents used them on some of their expedition tent models. i have two of them and the material is killer and very bomber. orignaly this type of material was not legal in many states because the material did not pass fire laws. good to see that its coming back.

as far as packs go.....get a dana, best fitting and most bomber. chris if you work in an outdoor store then you should already know about dana designs.

the shelter is pretty cool but you should check out the black diamond mega mid. super light weight and great design that holds up to strong winds and snow.


cheers

 

[dent]

I agree those dana packs are great and the fit on them is next to none but for a 80+ litre pack the $$$, i can't afford them... got a Jack Wolfskin pack and love it...
for a tent got a north face 3 season tent and took it with me on some climbs out west and held up pretty good with the snow and the wind...
How water proof and wind proof is this stuff? is it mainly used for day trips or can it be used for expedition type uses... suspect if Moss had made their tents with it, it should be pretty good knowing Moss quality...
_dent

 

[bri]

I figured it had been around for a while since I have seen tents tested by quite a few people years ago. Thing is-- now, with the ultra light hiking trend hitting the populous a lot more stuff hit the market this year.

As far as I know silnylon is water proof. I left mine out in wind (20-30MPH) and rain the other night as a test and it did not have any rain go *through* it.

I classify Dana in there with manufacturers like Arc'Teryx, Osprey, Jansport, Kelty, Mountainsmith and Lowe. They don't really focus in on light weight minimalist packs and since I already have a large comfy pack for heavier weights, all of these were ruled out pretty quickly since I wanted to stay as close to 2 lbs as possible. When I was looking at packs, Dana had nothing to compare size and weight with Golite or Gregory and Gregory was less expensive than the Golite.

With packs, similar to fitting boots, fit is the most important thing; I care not about the manufacturer. It is my opinion that all of the manufactures these days make "bomb" packs and fit is the big concern. My advice on purchasing boots and packs is, buy at a store where you get personalized service by someone trained in fitting boots and packs. Forget about what everyone has told you about manufacturer and buy the most comfortable pack that meets your personal requirements.

My goal with the shelter was to stay as close to 16 oz as possible and as small as possible. Regarding the megamid, it was out of my weight range by about 2.5 lbs. I would definitely have gone for the megamid light. But even that is about a pound heavier than siltarp so it was out. Size on both is well over twice the size of the siltarp. My goal is to get a light setup for 3 season use and my encounters with snow will be rare with this setup. Besides I already have a light 4 season tent only slightly heavier than the megamid including poles and fly. I also did not like the way that you have to join poles together on the megamid. The silshelter is less expensive.

I am not arguing the point about Dana or Blackdiamond. Both good products, but in the end it is a personal preference and these products did not meet my needs.

Cheers,

Brian

 

[jmonsrvr]

bri you mentioned that for packs fit is very important..well it doesnt get any better than dana or osprey. the weight is an issue if you want a super light pack, but if you do long trips in the back country or climbing trips then fit and comfort is huge....even more of a consideration than the weight of your pack...you can have a super light weight pack that weighs nothing, but once it is loaded up with all your gear and you are wearing it for a few hours-it may or may not feel comfortable.

a lot of packs are made with bomber materials, but not all of them have the fit, comfort, or functionality of a dana, osprey or even a gregory who makes killer lightweight climbing packs. one thing though you mentioned that the rep was poking holes in the material with a pen...if you can poke a hole through your pack with a pen then the material is total crap!! that means anything abrasive in your pack can make a hole and any branches you come into contact with on the trail can do the same thing. unless all your time is spent above treeline.

all of this comes from years of experience (clmbing, mountaineering, and being a guide- i used to lead backpacking and climbing trips in wyoming and montana as well as the southern sierras...
also kelty jansport and mountainsmith are nowhere near the quality of dana and osprey...

just out of curiosity what kind of trips are you taking??? let me know i may be able to offer you some good advice... if you want to go super light dont forget to cut your tooth brush in half and dont bring boots bring sandals you wont need the support of a boot since your gear is so light (i used to do this in my minimilist summer hiking stage a few years back) lol

 

[dent]

Bri, wondering what kinda camping or hiking you're doing where you'd want the thin light weight fabric?
living in cananda and going through the bush or heading out in the winter, I'd prefer something strong rather and durable than light weight.
But then I guess it's to each their own. Depending on what kind of camping/ hiking you're doing and which manufacturer you prefer over the others. As jmon said, for the most part, the better quatility manufactures all pretty comparible which then depends on preference...
sam

 

[bri]

"if you can poke a hole through your pack with a pen then the material is total crap!! "

Well all-righty then... all silnylon is crap.

If that is what you are telling me and/or you are trying to tell me that I made the wrong decision, you might as well give up now. Because I am very happy with this gear.

You you can poke a hole through *many* backpack and tent materials. Definitely any ultra light silnylon. I guarantee I can poke a hole through a Megamid or any backpacking tent for that matter. My goal is to lose weight, not gain durability. I already have durable gear (Osprey pack, Zamberlain boots, NF bag, SD tent...) and if the situation calls for it, I use it.

What is cool about silnylon is that the threads separate instead of being frayed or cut, so in many cases it can self mend and is actually more durable than traditional materials.

I like the Gregory pack because it is comfy *and* light and as a result I can hike faster and am more comfortable in general. I am currently training with 25-30 lbs, nearly all of my gear for a 3-5 day hike. I have loaded it up with 35 lbs and I have no issues with the pack. At that point it is pretty full, fits well and is comfortable *for*me*.

Weight and durability is the trade-off for ultralight gear vs heavier gear. At this point silnylon is the best (available) of both worlds. They will figure out the durability isssue eventually. Likely by using heavier denier nylon. But what is the point? I want light not durability. I can offset durability 100 ways, but heavy gear is well... heavy.

I do a many 3 day/2 night trips and a number of longer trips, most at and above 10000'. I am trying to get to 20+ miles a day on marked trails like the Colorado Trail, Continental Divide Trail, Brookside-McCurdy trail. I also do a fair amount of hiking in the San Juans and day hikes. Other than summits, I stay on trail. I have managed about 15 miles on extended trips with my existing gear and it starts out at about 40-50 lbs. I want to start out around 30 lbs the first things to change out were the largest heaviest items I must carry. These were shelter, pack, bag, boots and clothes.

I am fairly knowledgable about ultralight and minimalist techniques, but at my age I have no intention of hiking in sandals and the .5 oz that I save by cutting my toothbrush makes little difference to me. I am after weight reduction of the few heavy items where you can save serious weight easily (including my belly).

Cheers,

Brian

 

[jmonsrvr]

lol.....bri you are funny....anyway with the pen thing i meant that toward your pack not tents.....duh! and if you are only doing weekends 3 to 5 days with only 35 pounds on your back...christ why were heavy boots (you dont need the support since you are carrying very little weight and by day two your pack is super light weight since you have eaten the majority of your food)...you dont go off trail you stay on trails all of which are pretty well maintained...you should get a good pair of trail running shoes or approach shoes to hike in (many of which now have some sort of a shank for this very purpose. i used to summit a lot of peaks in the summer with no snow with my tennies and or approach shoes (glorified tennies). by far the lightest and best way..i were my gators with my tennies in case of heavy talus.

also hiking in sandals is great.....chacos are very good for river running, rafting and hiking. they also supply a surprising amount of support.

i never said sinylon is crap...for tents and lightweight shelters its great...for a pack thats going to get a lot of use and beat to death...well.....

you mentioned training for weekenders... highly recommend getting into good walking shape. your trips will be much more enjoyable and safe. trust me (if you dont already know) i used to take people out all of the time that claimed to be in shape and they had the worst time ever on hiking/climbing trips...always wanted a refund.


anyway good luck on your adventures.....cheers

(the king of all minimilist- john muir- used to hike in the yosemite area for days...up to something like 15 days with just his wool coat,wool hat, pants, shirt and boots. food was carried in his pockets....)

 

[bri]

Most of the products that I have seen are pretty much all the same silnylon. Of course each manufacturer likes to name it something specail, but its not. Its all 1.5 oz 30 denier on the ultralight stuff.

I do not plan to beat my light weight stuff to death so it will do just fine. On the Gregory G-Pack the parts that really need to be durable, i.e. the bottom, are not silnylon and they are pounds lighter than the other packs.

I actually have two pairs of trail runners, I just have not been able to use them for distances with carrying any significant weight. I think if I can drop some of my own body weight I might be able to manage them, but many of the trails I do are too hard on me to manage with runners. Talus and Scree being the most difficult for me with weight and no boots.

With my heavy pack, boots and gear I can manage about 15 miles per day above 10000' with the heavy gear. Last year with this gear my pack weight was around 50 lbs. The gear I am training with this year, and the topic of this discussion is much different. 15 miles is not great, but a fun pace and I get to explore.

Weekend and one nighters I do a lot of and are not a challenge for me weight wise. What I am training for is these short trips in general and the occasional 5 night or more trip. On these trips keeping the weight around 35 lbs is more opf a challenge for me. This year on a trip like this I hope to average 20 miles per day.

I tend to stay away from groups. I either go completely solo or with a close friend. I don't like to listen to people like you talk about.

If you get backpacker magazine they have an awesome 8 week training program in last issue. Really awesome, designed by some really good coaches. So far I am having good results (week 4) with it aerobically and strength wise. I am just not losing any weight, which is a bit frustrating since I am also paying decent attention to my diet. ARG!

Cheers,

Brian