Started, quit, and the mystery began...

[Spark6]

No updates on new ECUs or anything like that, but I took the Disco out for a proving run today. Bypassing the ECM to power the pump really seems to work, because the old warhorse fired right up, and ran well, then started up again after several hours of sitting in the cold and got me home without hiccup! Seems like there might be a little roughness around 2500 rpms when accelerating hard, and there are definitely some bushings that need attention, as the ride is a bit clunky. Idle is down around 550 when warmed up, and smooth. I'll report back if anything changes and as we learn more.

To all of you who have helped as we've picked through this one, thank you!

 

[Frobisher]

Looking good!

 

[Spark6]

Well, well, well... I’m back! And now the Disco is stranded in the snow. Since bypassing the ECM and running the fuel pump relay directly from the ignition switch, we’ve put 300 happy, trouble-free miles on the truck. It’s climbed steep grades, waded through snow, been up on the highway, run errands, and generally been terrific... Until this morning, when it quit while warming up, and then wouldn’t restart. Cranked and cranked, no fire. My first thought was that the wire bypass bypassing the ECM for the fuel pump relay must have come loose. Nope. I can hear the fuel pump running, and I have a little geyser of fuel at the fuel rail. Just for grins, I swapped multi-function relays. No dice. Irritated, I went inside to stew about it. After an hour or two on poking around online, I still didn’t have much in the way of a new plan, but I remembered that way back when the whole no-start saga began in a grocery store parking lot, I’d managed to get the engine to start by pulling the IAT sensor. Imagine my glee when the truck started instantly after pulling the IAT plug. Just as an experiment, I plugged the IAT back in, and the truck kept idling away happily. I left it to idle for a few minutes, and then drove a short distance, shut it down, ran an errand, and came back... truck started without a hiccup! Drove a bit further stopped to fill the tank, and wouldn’t you know it, the old war horse started without hesitation. Guess the IAT is either intermittently failing, or a red herring. I hopped in the Disco, and headed out for a longer drive. It ran as smoothly as it ever has.

So imagine my surprise (or lack thereof) when after several hours of working, I came back to the rig to find that it won’t start. My IAT-pulling trick does nothing (I really think that’s a red herring) and after 90 minutes of fussing, fretting, checking connections, swapping relays, I called my wife for a ride. In the pitch dark, we ended up leaving the Disco where it sat, on top of a hill, in 8” of snow, out of reach of any AAA tow truck I’m aware of. Great.

Tomorrow morning we’re headed back up to try to replace the 300-mile-old CKP sensor, as that seems the most likely candidate for taking the truck down. After that... I’m at a loss. I’ll report back...

 

[Spark6]

And the saga continues...

Got back up to the truck this morning. Even with a freshly charged jumper pack, the starter would barely turn the motor. The battery was well and truly pooched. Before heading down the hill to buy a new battery, I crawled under the rig and swapped the “new” Crank Sensor for the old one we had pulled out before realizing we had an ECM problem, not a sensor problem the last time around.

With a new deep cycle battery in hand, we headed back to the Disco, hopeful we’d be driving the confounded thing home shortly. Boy does a fresh battery make a world of difference. The motor hasn’t cranked that hard the whole time we’ve owned it! Didn’t make a difference though - the fuel pump ran, the motor cranked, but there wasn’t even a hint of a start. Next thing to check is spark, right? So I grab the nearest spark plug boot to pull the lead and remove the plug. It snapped off in my hand. How this thing has been running at all is somewhat baffling to me.
So now I have a set of spark plug leads and plugs on order from the local Auto Zone. I’ll pick them up first thing tomorrow. I know, there are preferred brands for our trucks, but I’m just trying to get this darn thing back home, or at least to a road where I can get a tow. If this doesn’t fix it, then I suppose at least it winnows down the list of possible failures...

 

[Spark6]

“Success is going from failure to failure, without losing enthusiasm.” Or in our case, substitute “success,” for “Land Rover ownership!”

In spite of crusty snow and bitter cold, we got the plugs and leads swapped out. Boy does the top of the motor look better without the crusty old leads on there. Every plug I pulled was dark, and badly worn, but not fouled, so I guess that’s a good sign. The bad news is, there is definitely no spark. We can deal with that though... I’m figuring at this point that one of the following is at fault:
- Both of my crank position sensors are bad (at this point, for $30, I’ll buy a new one anyway and keep it as a spare if I’m wrong).
- Despite the fact that we checked it for continuity a month or so ago, the wiring harness for the CPS is bad. (I’ll check it again when I get back from work this week, but the wife was darn near frozen through, and it was time to go home.)
- The ECM is bad, and isn’t signaling the coils to energize. (This, to me, feels probable, given we had to bypass the darn thing to turn on the fuel pump, I think it’s just dying. My wife the computer nerd, however, has noticed several similar threads online that have pointed out that it is very rare for an ECM to fail, and so is hesitant to start the roller coaster to replace it.)
- The wires from the ECM to the coil pack have gone bad. (I’ll devise a test for that this coming week... if anyone has any ideas, please advise!)

It seems HIGHLY unlikely that the entire coil pack died at once with no warning. I rank the likely candidates as:
1) ECM
2) CPS / CPS harness
3) Coil harness

If anyone has ideas on no-spark cases beyond this, please let me know!

 

[best4x4]

ECU should be a PNP swap. I've only had one ECU that had to be paired with the 10AS.

 

[rover rob]

ECU should be a PNP swap. I've only had one ECU that had to be paired with the 10AS.
[/QUOTE
I must have shit luck as all 3 I have swapped needed to be paired.

 

[Spark6]

Has anyone tried a ECM-cloning service like precisionecu.com ? They say that you send them your ECM, and they build you a clone so it seamlessly plugs in without needing to be paired. Idk. Feels a bit good to be true, but if it works... The site says they deal with the part number ECM we have, but at $495, I’m close enough to the price of an unlocked ECM from Tornado that I have to wonder...

But if it were possible, I’d much rather plug in a junkyard ECM for $100 if it would work. Is there anyone near Pittsburgh, PA who can help me pair a junkyard ECM if it needs it?

 

[best4x4]

$100.00 at a junk yard? Last 3 I bought = $100.00 total from LKQ. I yanked em out, brought em home, plugged em in, to test em, and every one started the 97 D1 non AEL without a single issue. You can also grab the 10AS green box at the same time as a CYA, but I've never had to do so.

 

[Spark6]

$100.00 at a junk yard? Last 3 I bought = $100.00 total from LKQ. I yanked em out, brought em home, plugged em in, to test em, and every one started the 97 D1 non AEL without a single issue. You can also grab the 10AS green box at the same time as a CYA, but I've never had to do so.

Well, by junkyard, I meant eBay, and I’ve not seen any on there much cheaper than that.

 

[best4x4]

Oh yeah Ebay is usually 199-250ish, I've scored 2 14CUX for 25.00 each, and the 3 non AEL GEMS ECU's for 33.00 each all from LKQ. They used to have an online site with parts, but they were more because they were pulling the parts. I just check my 3 local LKQ's and when a RRC/D1/D2 comes in I try my best to get there ASAP. The LKQ a bit further away = a friend will usually run by and grab what I'm looking for if he can.

 

[Spark6]

Well, now you’ve got me paging through all the local wrecker websites! We’ll see where it leads...

 

[rovercanus]

Well, now you’ve got me paging through all the local wrecker websites! We’ll see where it leads...

Did you call Will Tillery?

 

[Blueboy]

Did you call Will Tillery?

(540) 462-7353 in case you need the number.

 

[Spark6]

Update!

Mr. Tillery came through and found us an unlocked, parts-matching ECM, and got it to us under budget and on time. (Although UPS did their best to undermine that.) Thank you!

By the time the part arrived and we got up to the rig, it was pitch black and about 7 degrees. By headlamp, wifey and I pried the doors and hood open against the ice that had built up on the outside and got to work. The old ECM came out after some wrangling, and it became immediately clear why the ECM had failed:



I’ve seen a lot of rusted stuff over the years... but that’s a horse of a different color.

Before we swapped the ECM, we had to undo the ECM bypass for the fuel pump relay I’d engineered. With that done, the new unit went in without too much stress. Turned the key to position II, and the fuel pump engaged and then disengaged! One problem, solved. We left the ignition on for 60 sec to give it time to pair with the BeCM, then Wifey cranked it up, and all of the sudden, we had a running truck again. Hallelujah! Still some drivability issues to sort out, as is to be expected, but it got home without hysterics.

Onward and upward!

 

[best4x4]

I had a feeling your ECU was toast!

 

[Spark6]

I had a feeling your ECU was toast!

Yeah, the longer and harder we searched for a culprit, the more the signs pointed towards a bad ECM. Mystery solved!

I’m now on a crusade to come up with a way to protect and waterproof the ECM for good... I’m envisioning an “otterbox”-style enclosure around it... anyone done something like this?

 

[Frobisher]

That's excellent to hear!

 

[best4x4]

Yeah, the longer and harder we searched for a culprit, the more the signs pointed towards a bad ECM. Mystery solved!

I’m now on a crusade to come up with a way to protect and waterproof the ECM for good... I’m envisioning an “otterbox”-style enclosure around it... anyone done something like this?

People have extended the harnesses and moved em to the glovebox before. I also highly recommend using the D2 fender/hood rubber strips vs that 6inch long piece a D1 has and on the little plastic cover put a bead of silicone on it to prevent water from seeping down. Is your lower fender rusted out or did all that just collect in there??

 

[LRDONE]

Spark6 I'm currently working on a waterproof box for the ecu in the stock location. I will keep you updated!