Water in #7... HG or Cracked Block?

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ohill

Active member
Apr 12, 2014
44
0
Deep south
seventyfive said:
When you get an engine noise using a thicker oil simply masks the problem. If you have a machine shop inspect the block I think they will find your cam bearings are worn.
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Hey thanks. Yea, That's all it did was mask it I'm sure. It was ticking loud one time, but sometimes I wouldn't hear it for months and months. It would come and go. Probably so on the bearings, I remember reading something about cam walk. I guess mine's been walking for about 5 years.
If the block it not cracked I'm sure it will need new cam bearings if that is the source of the tick. I guess I probably should go ahead and pull the block out and have it checked for leaks and if no leaks get new cam and bearings also. I can do all the other bearings. I have put cam bearings in a small block chevy I rebuilt with a tool I have and it's still going 8 years later and I could probably turn down a piece on the lathe to fit my tool and the rover cam bearings to put them in straight, but would have to have finished bearings. I guess if I had it at the machine shop I could let them put them in. I'm on the fence rather to pull the block out or just try rebuilt heads and new gaskets and hope for the best. Alot of work putting that all back together just to have to tear it down again though. Plus I would be paranoid all the time and wouldn't be able to drive it far or trust it, wondering when and where. Thank you for your input, I'm so focused on the block maybe being cracked haven't given the cam bearings much thought. Another reason to pull the engine.
 
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ohill

Active member
Apr 12, 2014
44
0
Deep south
If I carried the block to a machine shop to pressure test would they heat it up to test? I'm just wondering because I read they charge $150 to test and if all they do is cold test I could just make some plates and cold test it myself. I've read alot of different pressures to cold test. 30psi, 50psi and one post said over 100psi to compensate for not being hot. I also read that 100psi would probably blow out the freeze plugs.
 
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sedat

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2014
80
1
Vegas!
ohill said:
Glad to hear you had good luck with that. I read all these stories about ECU needed reprogramming and that nobody can do it but dealer and they want $1500. I'm about afraid to get another engine even same year. I guess if changing only the block the ECU would not know the difference?
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Standard 4.0 settings will run a 4.6 no problem and vice versa.

Mine has been reprogrammed via autologic for the 4.6. its good for a little more go.

Mind you this is a non AEL Gems with a R380.

I still get by emissions even with a cam and headwork. The prior 4.6 also ran much higher compression and I still had no problems with programming or smog.
 
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ohill

Active member
Apr 12, 2014
44
0
Deep south
listerdiesel said:
HRC2479 is the casting number for 4.0 and 4.6 heads, SAI porting is machined afterwards.

All my heads including spares have that casting number.

Peter
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Thanks, was wondering if all of the 2479 heads with SAI would have the same bracket mounts holes exactly? Like if I bought a set of rebuilt heads (2479 w/ SAI holes already machined in) would I need to get a set for my specific year model or close to same so it would have all of the other mounting holes for brackets, etc machined in same places? That way I could just bolt everything right up? Probably all the same but, I wasn't sure if maybe different year model engines had heads drilled and tapped for brackets in different places and some did not, etc.? I wouldn't want to buy a set shipped only to find my brackets wouldn't bolt right up.
The reason I'm considering buying an already re-manufactured set is because one of my heads has slightly buggered plug threads on a couple plug holes and if I took them to a machine shop they would want to put in inserts in that head (probably) and I would prefer a professionally rebuilt set with no inserts or any problems. Or if I don't find a set, I can always buy a used one and have it rebuilt along with my good one. (Trying to not have to drive 160 mile round trip back and forth to a descent engine machine shop if I can help it.)
 
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ohill

Active member
Apr 12, 2014
44
0
Deep south
sedat said:
Standard 4.0 settings will run a 4.6 no problem and vice versa.

Mine has been reprogrammed via autologic for the 4.6. its good for a little more go.

Mind you this is a non AEL Gems with a R380.

I still get by emissions even with a cam and headwork. The prior 4.6 also ran much higher compression and I still had no problems with programming or smog.
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Good information, thanks!

In a perfect world and if I had all the right connections, I would try to find the perfect year model block and have it all machined and put it back together and live happily ever after but, with me not living in a big city and having to drive miles and miles for this and that (most people around here don't know a land rover from a land cruiser) I may just have to make do with what I have (IF the block checks out). If it does not check out, I'll ask more questions about exactly which block to look for to swap all my parts over with hopefully the least amount of snafu's.
It think my next land rover will be a little older with not so much electronics.
 
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sedat

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2014
80
1
Vegas!
Not sure that there is a "perfect year model" block but the earlier is the better.

I have now seen 3 failures of the gems blocks. no 3.5/3.9s and a boatload of thor engines.
 
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ohill

Active member
Apr 12, 2014
44
0
Deep south
seventyfive said:
buick 300 bearings supposedly fit and are supposed to be better. ive only used genuine rover internals.
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Buick 300 cam bearings fit a 4.6? I'll look into that. I checked a little and I see them (buick 300 bearings) listed for up through 02? Not sure why not for 03 04? Would be good. Thanks for the tip.

I'm looking for something to make plates to pressure check my block before I go any further. It will be a cold test but, if it failed, then I would know not to even bother taking it to a machine shop or go any further with this block. Nearest engine machine shop that's not a hack is close to 100 miles one way.
 
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JohnB

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2007
2,295
12
Oregon
If the head gasket is bad then that was why you were getting water in the cylinder.
Gaskets and bolts are cheap and your time is free. Get your heads surfaced and throw them back on. What do you have to loose.
 
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capri_auto

Well-known member
Jun 1, 2005
836
0
North NJ
ohill said:
Thanks jafir .I believe he's right. Like everything else these days.


Mine has been noisy since about 100k. It ticked for awhile when warmed up but, it would come and go. 15W40 & 20W50 oil helped with that some in my case. I always thought it was a lifter but, after reading more, sounds like it may have been a liner or oil pump. I can't see any sign of a slipped liner, but I probably wouldn't be able to tell with my untrained eye. Can't feel any that's up or down more than others.
Could be worse I guess, like I could have been a few hundred miles from home when It gave out. Glad it was in my drive.
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I bought my '04 with 104k miles 2-3. Same exact symptoms when I bought it to the T. She has 131K now, still going strong. Doesn't leak coolant or oil (anymore). I've used a stethoscope and could never pinpoint the source. Still taps now and again. In my truck it's linked to negative pressure in the block. The tapping goes away when I pull the oil cap most of the time. I suspect cam bearing or maybe slipped liner. I've seen a lot of threads discussing these symptoms, but never heard of a conclusion.
 
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ohill

Active member
Apr 12, 2014
44
0
Deep south
Pressure test 4.6 block

I finally made some block-off plates to pressure test the block. I cold tested each side to 60lbs. No air bubbles around any of the liners with dish soap and then diluted dish soap with water. I know with a cold test it can show a false negative but, I am not taking the motor out so all I can do is cold test. I didn't want to start buying parts until I had, at least, cold tested it. I thought the water jacket would be connected on both sides but without the water pump on I guess it is not. I only had one air valve on hand so had to test one side and then put the valve in the other front plate and test that side. Anyway, now I'll be looking for rebuilt heads for 4.6 with SAI. Who has a good reputation for rebuilt heads?
 
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