Water pressure/pump help

[varova87]

I can't deal with low to no water pressure anymore. My house in Uganda is gravity fed from an 850L tank, which is refilled by a low-pressure incoming "local" water line. Long story short, I average 20psi water pressure if that. Pressure isn't enough to push the hot water through the heater and up and out a shower head.

I figured I could buy a shallow well pump and wire it into the tank, and have that feed my house, but know absolutely nothing about them. I'm in the US for 2.5 more weeks and could buy anything I need.

Advice, thoughts?

 

[jhk07]

speaking kinda out of my realm of knowledge...... most stuff in U.S 60 Hertz. Uganda maybe 50 hertz ????????


they make booster pumps, shallow well pumps. You might consider dropping a submersible in there too.



With a bladder tank........... I am no plumber

 

[Buddy]

I've never tried this but it can't be much different than a well. In addition to the pump you'll also need a pressure tank and a control module. The tank helps to regulate the pressure similar to an air compressor. The pump fills up the tank to build up pressure once it reaches a certain limit, I have mine set around 60psi because the water softener eats a good bit of that pressure. The pump cuts off. Then when you use the water the pressure in the tank drop until it hits the low pressure setting and the pump kicks on again. If you don't use the tank the pump will end up cycling too much since it will put out way more volume than you can use.

The pressure tank is typically hooked in with a T fitting between the pump and the house. My pump is actually submerged in the well but it's still the same basic concept. Hook the pump in between the holding tank and the house. and hook the pressure tank an control valve up between the pump and the house. Also don't forget to put in a check valve so the pressure tank won't push the water back out into the holding tank when the pump cuts off. I'm not 100% on this but I would put the check valve between the Holding tank and Pump, mine is in the well itself.

Hope that helps.

 

[Buddy]

Just found these, they would be an all in one solution. http://www.waynepumps.com/product-selector/well-pumps/tank-systems

 

[varova87]

Is it possible to run a pump without a pressure tank? Some sort of on-demand pump that provides the pressure itself?

Only catch is shipping. Anything I buy has to go in a suitcase and on an airplane. 2 of my 3 bags are plastic containers, but the 50lb limit is, well, limiting.

 

[Buddy]

Is it possible to run a pump without a pressure tank? Some sort of on-demand pump that provides the pressure itself?

Only catch is shipping. Anything I buy has to go in a suitcase and on an airplane. 2 of my 3 bags are plastic containers, but the 50lb limit is, well, limiting.

Can you source a tank locally? W/o a tank any decent well pump will cycle on and off every 1-2 seconds. You could look into some marine applications maybe there is something for boat or RV showers you could use.

 

[jhk07]

http://www.flintandwalling.com/ProductBenefit.aspx?ProductId=907

Believe it or not, the "bladder tank" is the SS piece at end of pump.....




If you can get your hands on a bladder tank over there, a submersible pump might do the trick. Easier for you on the plane.

They "push" water vs. "pull" (shallow well). It is easier to push water than pull. Shallow Well pumps have

their limitations. How many feet from tank to house ?

 

[varova87]

Can you source a tank locally? W/o a tank any decent well pump will cycle on and off every 1-2 seconds. You could look into some marine applications maybe there is something for boat or RV showers you could use.

A bladder pressure tank, I doubt. There are, of course, scores of used propane tanks, etc.

I've been combing some RV sites looking for something that might work. I'll keep looking.

 

[jhk07]

a small bladder tank is size of a basketball.....

 

[ptschram]

I'd love to have a bladder the size of a basketball!

 

[az_max]

How tall is your house? I don't think one story is enough to create enough pressure, but most high rises use a booster pump at the basement/ground level up to a holding tank on the roof to create pressure for the building. You could build a mini version in your house.

 

[varova87]

How tall is your house? I don't think one story is enough to create enough pressure, but most high rises use a booster pump at the basement/ground level up to a holding tank on the roof to create pressure for the building. You could build a mini version in your house.

tank is mounted about 16 feet in the air, but the pipe enters the house just under the roof, so the actual elevation drop is small.

still looking for a booster pump or a tankless well pump. pre-pressurized bladder tanks are out per the airline.

 

[hafaday]

I would think something like this might work for a temp fix. wire it to a switch for as needed use, shower vs. washing dishes. Pressures are with 110V 60Hertz. It was stated earlier (someone else) that your electric might be 208-220V 50 hertz. you might have to look at some foreign sites for correct voltage pumps. I had found a few pumps like this on the foreign sites, but a lot of the pumps were being sold in bulk quantities (50-100+).

It's all I got.. Good luck.

 

[p m]

It is easier to push water than pull.

The "common wisdom" answers blow my mind by having some general usefulness, despite general incorrectness.

It makes no difference for the motor to "push" water or to "pull," however, since the pump cannot create more than absolute vacuum, the pull height cannot be more than what corresponds to barometric pressure at your altitude (about 30ft at sea level). In reality, the "pull" height is more likely to be about half that for rotary vane pumps, and about 9/10ts of that for piston pump.
In contrast to that, the "push" height can be many times more than "pull."

To answer the original question - most scavenge pumps at Home Depot (i.e., intended for evacuating water from a swimming pool) should be able to provide at least 20 psi boost - added to the pressure they start with. If the bottom of your water tank is about 15 ft above the faucets, the minimum pressure (tank nearly dry) will be about 15 psi; with a 20 psi boost, the pump should be able to produce output pressure about 35 psi.

Also - the AC frequency difference between 50 and 60 Hz is insignificant for pretty much any appliance. The difference between 240V and 120V is more important - what do you have in Uganda?

 

[bri]

Not sure how it might work, but what about an RV pump?
http://www.shurflo.com/rv-products/...s-water-pumps/115-vac-park-model/default.html

 

[jhk07]

http://www.flintandwalling.com/ProductBenefit.aspx?ProductId=907

Believe it or not, the "bladder tank" is the SS piece at end of pump.....




If you can get your hands on a bladder tank over there, a submersible pump might do the trick. Easier for you on the plane.

They "push" water vs. "pull" (shallow well). It is easier to push water than pull. Shallow Well pumps have

their limitations. How many feet from tank to house ?

The "common wisdom" answers blow my mind by having some general usefulness, despite general incorrectness.

It makes no difference for the motor to "push" water or to "pull," however, since the pump cannot create more than absolute vacuum, the pull height cannot be more than what corresponds to barometric pressure at your altitude (about 30ft at sea level). In reality, the "pull" height is more likely to be about half that for rotary vane pumps, and about 9/10ts of that for piston pump.
In contrast to that, the "push" height can be many times more than "pull."

To answer the original question - most scavenge pumps at Home Depot (i.e., intended for evacuating water from a swimming pool) should be able to provide at least 20 psi boost - added to the pressure they start with. If the bottom of your water tank is about 15 ft above the faucets, the minimum pressure (tank nearly dry) will be about 15 psi; with a 20 psi boost, the pump should be able to produce output pressure about 35 psi.

Also - the AC frequency difference between 50 and 60 Hz is insignificant for pretty much any appliance. The difference between 240V and 120V is more important - what do you have in Uganda?

Hillbilly explanation vs. NASA version. Most people I deal with speak hillbilly, thanks for the physics lesson though...... it has been 25 years !!!! I'd also go out on a limb, and say a pool pump (skimmer ???) is a terrible idea. Probably 3/4' outlet, minimal HP wont get fuck for pressure out of it.

Hell throw a sewage pump down in there and call it a day .....

What is a scavenge pump ? Sump, Sewage ??? Those things are meant to move some water, quickly. Be like shooting a potato gun..... Blow every fitting he has apart.


Ohhh OP, you can let air out of bladder tank, then air up...... (And that link is a booster pump........ bladder tank all in one)

 

[p m]

Hillbilly explanation vs. NASA version.

It is rather high-school version, but... there's nothing wrong with hillbilly explanations, when they steer in the right direction.

 

[varova87]

Also - the AC frequency difference between 50 and 60 Hz is insignificant for pretty much any appliance. The difference between 240V and 120V is more important - what do you have in Uganda?

I've used appliances rated for various Hz there with no problems, so I'd assume you are correct. General supply to the house is 240V, but comes in between 220-235 depending on grid load.

Voltage isn't a problem either, really. I've got step-down regulators rated from 200watts to 1500watts in various places in the house. I could buy another one or use one of those as a dedicated supply to a pump.

I'm thinking about getting a shureflo RV pump or something like that garden pump and bringing a separate water line off the tank. I'll hook the pump to a switch and have that line feed my bathroom only for now. Pressure in the kitchen sink isn't really an issue, and pressure from the tap at the street is strong enough to at least water the garden.