| Author | Message | ||
     Mark Reeves (Mer) New Member Username: Mer Post Number: 36 Registered: 06-2003 |
Just a question to the hosts of the site and no offense meant: I am relatively new to this site and enjoy it immensely (newbie D1 owner). I have purchased 3 dvds and stickers and I support the donation scheme for items sold here. The obnly distressing thing that I find sometimes is that there can be a lot of intolerent language used in the posts. Example: calling things or people "gay", or "bling" or "ghetto", all in a derogative manner. These are "code" words for people who are different. As an attorney, I know about freedom of speech and support it fully. My observation is that when people who are either social or racial minorities see this kind of langage, it can be seen as unwelcoming and hostile. I understand that you have no obligation to police language...that's not my point. My point is that a general note to all that the DiscoWeb community is meant for everyone who loves the truck and wants to share knowledge would be great. You cannot legislate morality, but you can lead by example. I enjoy the site and will continue to support it...you guys do a great job. The posts I have read from you have been reasoned...I only ask for your thoughts and consideration on this matter. Thank you for listening to me on this. Respectfully, Mark | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Senior Member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1513 Registered: 04-2002 |
Mark... I'm not trying to speak for Ho and company but there are some words here that will get filtered out. Just try and type TxRxAxNxNxY into a post and you'll get •••••••••••. I for one am a huge supporter of the first amemdment even if I don't like what I hear.  | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 383 Registered: 03-2003 |
LOL. Al, you're as lost about the Constitution as you are about Rovers. What does the First Amendment have to do with DiscoWeb? | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 106 Registered: 04-2003 |
You'd think an attorney would know that the First Amendment protects citizens from government restrictions on speech -- not restrictions by citizen owners of a private website. | ||
| Jack Edwards (Olered) Senior Member Username: Olered Post Number: 402 Registered: 04-2002 |
One suggestion: Tanning Bed It provides for thicker skin. $.02 Cheers | ||
| M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Senior Member Username: Lrover94 Post Number: 1002 Registered: 02-2002 |
damn, andrew and john beat me to it...... mike w | ||
| michael burt (Mikeyb) Senior Member Username: Mikeyb Post Number: 425 Registered: 03-2002 |
well, it seems to me that mark was asking for each member to self-regulate and "lead by example." regardless of your agreement with him or not, he never said that the first amendment should apply here. my .02... | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Senior Member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1516 Registered: 04-2002 |
Wow! And neither did I. Just that I am a supporter of the 1st. I keep forgetting that humor is often lost in the ether. | ||
| John (Jroc) Member Username: Jroc Post Number: 147 Registered: 08-2002 |
Which Amendment is it that allows us to have guns, and kill animals that taste good??? I like that one! LOL In all seriousness, the beauty of free speech is it allows idiots to say stupid things, which in turn makes it easy to distinguish who they are!!! To buy a car you need a drivers license, To buy a computer you need... Money There are alot of Assholes, Homophobes, and Biggots with money! Therefore... You get the picture Mark, Most of the people on D-Web are very helpful and cool. Ignore the others! | ||
| Mike Rupp (Mike_rupp) Senior Member Username: Mike_rupp Post Number: 251 Registered: 02-2002 |
"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." Not to split hairs, but the second amendment does not "allow us to have guns", but rather affirms that we have this right inherently and prevents laws that infringe upon this right. | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 385 Registered: 03-2003 |
Agreed. The Constitution does not grant us rights. The Constitution merely affirms rights that were God-given. We are endowed by our Creator (and not by the Constitution) with certain unalienable rights. Such is one of the premises of our system of law. | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 109 Registered: 04-2003 |
Not to split hairs, but there was and is a difference between rights and systems set up under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Rights under the Constitution are positive -- given TO the citizens (voting, etc.); the Bill of Rights (the first ten amendments to the Constitution) are negative -- Congress (and the States through the Fourteenth Amendment) is BARRED from infringing on certain rights. They're basically what my Con Law professor called (jokingly) the "duh rights" -- speech, religious practice, petitioning to air grievances, bear arms, "privacy" from searches and seizures including of property without due process, fair and public trials, etc. These are so basic, indeed, so God-given that the Founders actually had a huge disagreement over whether the Bill of Rights was necessary. Many people believed that the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights were so basic that to protect them with clauses was a waste of parchment. Thank God, though, that we did write them down oh-so long ago... Enough rambling it's almost lunch and time to do some work taking kids from bad parents...  | ||
| Thomas Dahbura (U352) Member Username: U352 Post Number: 196 Registered: 10-2002 |
•••••• | ||
| Thomas Dahbura (U352) Member Username: U352 Post Number: 197 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hmmmm-I guess I am getting old but what does that mean? | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 229 Registered: 04-2003 |
What does what mean? (1) The red dots there mean you typed a word (or combination of letters) that Axel, Ho, and Kyle decided they didn't want on the Bulletin Board. Words like the nickname for transmission, and a couple others that are "coarse" versions of engine parts. (2) What I wrote in the post above your first means what it means. Sorry to demonstrate the most annoying habit of an attorney: The obsession with the belief that words mean things, and using other terms or phrases as equivalent isn't always correct. Back to our regularly-scheduled programming!  | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 330 Registered: 10-2002 |
After voting today and our bizarre politics here in California, I sometimes wonder if the founders would have done better delineating our "responsibilities" as citizens rather than our "rights". "All forms of government destroy themselves by carrying their basic principle to excess...the democracies become too free, in politics and economics, in morals, even in literature and art, until at last even the puppies in our homes rise up on their hind legs and demand rights. Disorder grows to such a point that a society will abandon all liberty to anyone who can restore order." Plato (427-347 BC) My 2 cents- | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 780 Registered: 05-2002 |
What a great Platonism. I never cease to be amazed at the concepts, ideals, and applications our ancient philosophers came up with. Truths about human and societal natures are only so because they are the same now as they once were and always will be. -C | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 235 Registered: 04-2003 |
That quote from Plato got me thinking (uh-oh): There's a legal philsophy called Natural Law Theory (not the transcendentalists but something all together different) that puts forth the belief that for every right there is a corresponding duty. For example (IMHO), we have the right to elect our representatives in free and fair elections; we have the corresponding duty to make an informed choice when voting. We've seen that play out in California. People exercised their right under the California Constitution to initiate a recall; they then lived up to their duty by voting on it. These legal rights (as so well-pointed out by John Lee way up there in this thread) are endowed by our Creator; the duties are moral in nature and are based on the Founders' vision of a well-ordered society (read The Federalist Papers for more). What has this got to do with the Platonism above? Well, Plato is decrying the excesses of a truly democratic Greece, excesses "in politics and economics, in morals, even in literature and art...." What he observes (and even bemoans) is that, although rights may expand in a free society, there is not a corresponding expansion of a sense of duty (i.e., not letting society go to Hell in a handbasket). Historically speaking, this is what led to the Romans to a republican form of government. Their problem was the same -- excess and corruption (equivalent to a dereliction of the duty owed the Empire). Our problems are the same. Everyone has rights nowadays -- No one wants to acknowledge the very real duties we owe the nation/state/society (what the Romans called Publis). Sorry for the rant -- it's been a really bad morning so far... Andy | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 331 Registered: 10-2002 |
Well said, Andy! | ||
| John Lee (Johnlee) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Johnlee Post Number: 559 Registered: 03-2003 |
The political philospher Montesquieu observed, "in despotism fear is the spur; in monarchies, honour; in Republics, virtue." Every form of government has an essential element, without which it cannot properly function. A monarchy cannot function without honor. If the ruling class does not rule honorably, the entire system fails. Democracy has an essential element. It is virtue. If the people govern themselves then they themselves must be virtuous. If people have a right to arm themselves and bear these arms in public, then they must be virtuous or else such a system cannot work. If people have the right to vote for their leaders, they must vote with virtue and not because their leaders promise them things everyone knows are lies but are things we want to hear. Today in the United States, if someone in office dared to tell the truth about almost any subject, he would immediately be forced to resign. We as a society cannot accept the truth about anything. We as a society don't want the truth. We complain about how things are in Washington, but we're the ones who made it that way. | ||
| Blue (Blue) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Blue Post Number: 636 Registered: 04-2003 |
good points all around The Socrates, Plato, Aristotle succession was one of the greatest gifts of ancient Greece. today it seems like everyone demands their "rights", but they all feel that it is the duty of the ubiquitous "they" to secure and enforce those rights for them (and of course, foot the bill). Free lunch all the way. California's 70% voter turnout, and subsequent ousting of a career politician who feeds on politics for the sake of politics is awesome. What a great kick in the ass for US politics. | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 236 Registered: 04-2003 |
Right, guys -- but the people of California need to demand that their state's actions reflect their feelings toward the current (outgoing) politician. If they are pissed because they're overtaxed and the government in Sacramento is beholden to environmental interests, then MAKE DAMN SURE "Arnold's" government acts to correct the corruption. To do otherwise, IMHO, strikes a blow against democracy as an exercise to undermine that precious virtue John Lee mentioned. Here's hoping.... | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 237 Registered: 04-2003 |
As an aside: How many times have you seen this kind of reasoned commentary on POR?  | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 332 Registered: 10-2002 |
Andy- "It is inappropriate to put Dana 60's on a Rover. BTW-I think therefore I am". Rene Descarte (1596-1650) | ||
| Andrew Maier (Newman) Member Username: Newman Post Number: 243 Registered: 04-2003 |
Greg- You owe me one glass of chocolate milk, which shot out of my nose when I read that! | ||
| Lewis Jones (Cutter) Senior Member Username: Cutter Post Number: 349 Registered: 10-2003 |
Bling? I use this one a lot! Its not a 'code' word as lawyer mike says it is....its about a certain style that I don't find attractive. They are much nicer on this Rover forum http://www.pirate4x4.com ...so sue me |
