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Trying to decide
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 01:47 pm: | 
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I need a new truck. I've been thinking about a Disco vs. a Jeep Liberty. I've owned a l.r. before but I've never owned a Jeep. The truck would need to be a daily driver and handle long trips without being too fatiguing (not interested in a "real" Jeep for this reason). It would see a fair amount of trail use in mostly desert conditions (huge ruts, plenty of nasty rocks, some steep climbs and descents). I'm not interested in extreme stuff, though inevitably some rough obstacles would need to be handled. I have a fair amount of this sort of off-road experience. Note: I would often be alone during these trips.
Disco pros: Tougher. Solid front axle. Can fit a bigger tire. Better articulation. Full time all wheel drive in both low and high range. Probably holds more stuff, though either should be fine. Better third-party support (so far).
Disco cons: Poor reliability and expensive to maintain. Longer, wider, with a huge rear overhang. Worse departure angle and turning radius. Gas milage is worse. New ones are too pretty to beat up.
Liberty pros: $10k less expensive if new, but more than a used D1, of course. More compact. Much better departure angle. Better milage though maximum range is about the same. Limited slip in rear is a factory option. 7 year warrantee on drive train is nice. Less expensive to maintain. I suspect it would be more reliable.
Liberty cons: IFS! Worse articulation. Less maximum clearance and tire height. Rear seat does not fold flat. Full time all wheel drive is only in high range (low range is part time only). Probably less torque near idle. Too cute looking.
I've reserched both of these options rather extensively. I'd love to have an 03 Disco - if it had CDL - but would hate to beat it up. I could see myself with a late model D1. I would dread to repeat all the problems I had with my last LR. The Liberty would probably do what I wanted of it, but that's it - no love affair. What are your opinions?
Thanks |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 01:58 pm: |
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As much as I hate to say it you seem to have just made your case for the Liberty. The other issue to consider is that the Liberty will be offered with a Diesel soon and that could extend your range and mileage. But on the other hand the Liberty lacks the stout frame of the Land Rover.
FWIW, I've been on trails with both the Liberty and the Land Rover counterpart (Freelander) and the Liberty wins hands down. But given what you want seems like the Liberty might be a better bet given the choice of Liberty and 2003 Disco2. If it were me I would get a 1998-1999 Disco 1 but either way $10k can get you lots of mods if you want to make it a trail vehicle. But it sounds like you're mostly looking for a daily driver. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 02:05 pm: |
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my brother has a liberty...its a toy.
in stock form it never makes it thru your first paragraph of must do's...not even close,never ever ever.
its a tin can with a warm fuzzy retro feel and a great 4.0litre motor. the drivetrain is a joke. total and complete light duty stamped steel piece of frigging shit!.
if they come out with the rumored straight axled D44 rubicon liberty in a few years that would be different. but the current one is a joke.
now all you guys that are gonna say I'm a ney saying rover guy . I have driven the fancy liberty, wheeled a liberty, drag raced a liberty with my disco. pounded a liberty around our praire track at high speed in full tail out.
my 94 disco makes it look stupid in every way except a flat out drag on pavement the liberty wins by a hair. |
Corey Shuman (One_Bad_Rover)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 02:27 pm: |
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Discovery--Best 4x4xfar |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 04:26 pm: |
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Even us Jeep guys can't stand the Liberty and it's 3.7l V motor...of course the Freelander looks like some sort of Mini-Van Larve so I 'm not completely anti libby....but since you're asking between the Libby and the Disco, if you ahve to ask, you may not need what makes the Disco better... |
Tom_in_Md
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 05:11 pm: |
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Just curious: What have the responses been on the Liberty Web ? |
Steve (Steve2)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 07:06 pm: |
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can't beat an isuzu trooper for value and toughness. it's a real truck and not appreciated in this country. they are cheap used. not as cool as a disco but yards better than a jeep.
my $0.02
s |
Milan (Milan)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 07:22 pm: |
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Get a Jeep TJ or Rubicon. Way better than anything else out of the box and contrary to what you've heard, it is comfortable for the long haul.
In any case, if you do plan on wheeling, I would not get anything unibody. So the Libby would be out and I'd be lookin at the Disco or the TJ. |
Trying
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 10:14 pm: |
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I haven't asked on the jeep boards yet because I expected better here. By the way, there will never be a solid front axle Liberty, the engine is a 3.7l, and the uniframe is much stronger than a Cherokee's. I recognize that they are very different vehicles and that the Liberty is more of a compromise.
Again, the reason I want another truck is for back-country trails, though it would have to do as my only vehicle. No rock crawling for its own sake, just trails, though some rough ones at times. I would enjoy a Rubicon TJ on the trails but I don't want to drive 400 highway miles a day in one, and I want a real hard top and a little more room in the back. I agree that a Diesel would be an attractive choice. Range is an issue, to be sure, and the Diesel would also provide needed low-end torque. But they won't be available until sometime in the '04 model year.
I'd truly like a disco. Actually, what I'd really like is a three-door short wheelbase disco with the '03 engine and CDL. For me, the Freelander is not even in the picture. There seems to be few other realistic options. |
M. K. Watson (Lrover94)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 10:27 pm: |
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"uniframe"..........BAD BAD KARMA!
mike w |
mark
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 10:31 pm: |
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Discovery--Best 4x4xfar |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 10:52 pm: |
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Quote:"uniframe"..........BAD BAD KARMA!
mike w
Please......
Unibody does just fine... But the libby still sucks... |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 11:54 pm: |
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My order of preference, possibly:
1. Later model disco 1
3. Galaendenwagen $$$
2. Early model disco 2
4. 4-Runner
...
n (where n >> 4). Liberty |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 12:19 am: |
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I'm with Andrew on the 1-3 but not in that order. |
Roger Fastring
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 12:22 am: |
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Chrysler products have a rather poor reliability record in my opinion. I would not consider the Liberty as 'reliable'. Unibody, well, yes folks get Cherokees into interesting places, but look at their rear tailgate, you'll see BIIIIIG gaps from the body twisting on any rig thats flexed a few times.
With what you typed up, its clear a Rover isnt for you. However, I would get a Trooper instead of the Heep. Or the Suzuki XL-7 with a Calmini lift, you'd at least have a decent rear axle, a solid frame, and a rather neat little motorcycle inspired v-6. But, if it were me with your requirements, I'd go one year old trooper for rock bottom cheap, good aftermarket support, a frame and good amount of room. |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 01:00 am: |
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Roger, DCX fixed the tailgate issue in 97 when they went to the steel tailgate...moot point though LOL....
As far as reliability on a Jeep compared to a Rover....I'll leave that. It's not a wise decision to get in a pissing contest between Jeep/Rover in the Rover Backyard...
I have TONS of Jeep experience (modifying/seriously wheeling Jeep XJ's)...and I figured I'd add my $.02....
If it's down to a Rover or a Liberty, go with theRover, it has Class, Style and can be built to be a reliable backcountry rig. I have an XJ Cherokee and wheel it HARD, and often. It's been GREAT and I have a blast with it. In fact I'm a moderator on the Jeeps Unlimited Forum, but man, I love Rovers. I've been hooked on Series Rovers for years. my business (AV4x4) has just recently picked up a '00 Disco...) We had the Choice of a complete stable of Jeeps...the Disco has something many rigs don't...Style AND Ability. I can look at a Stock Disco and be very content...a stock XJ or KJ (Libby) just begs for mods...
I have a very built XJ and soon AV4X4 will have some altitude and traction mods going on the Disco...the KJ never came into consideration.
heh heh, and soon the next purchase will be
an older Rangie...
Go with the Rover, it won't disappoint you. The KJ will. The XJ is a vaible alternative, but really needs some thoughtful work to get to the next level (although as far as ability, the stock XJ and Disco are Very close...the mods I refer to are for SERIOUS back country use.)
Well I've blathered on long enough...!
Cheers!
RJ
The results of my desicions...AV4X4 |
Mark & Bev Preston (Markp)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 01:07 am: |
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Jeep has higher reliability? Not from my experience. A couple we know bought two new Jeep Cherokee's. Year 2000 or 2001. You would think that at the end of a model the reliability would be the highest. Both have left them stranded and calling the 800 number for tow trucks. My 98 Disco has 70K miles on it and while I've had a few things fixed under warranty, it hasn't left me stranded.
- Mark |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 01:33 am: |
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Quote:Jeep has higher reliability? Not from my experience.
Maybe not your experience, but try calling BMW and ask why they're no longer part of the Land Rover existance....I could be wrong but I recall something about warranty payouts being completely off the wall...
Or just check Consumer Reports....Jeep is not on the top of the list, but man, ROVER? ROTFLMAO...
Oh and Roger, you ar so right about the Izusu, Aftermarket support is blossoming for those things!! Teraflex is stepping up with some SERIOUS gear products...
RJ |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 02:54 am: |
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Actually RJ, from my reading Consumer Reports does not have enough incedents on file to report Rover reliability. They have never, and I mean never issued an official rating on major component faliures or any other type of Rover faliures. I have been following this for quite some time, and looking for thier opinion. If you could kindly point me to the issue that CR rates Rover reliability then I owe you a nice big cup of cappucino.
Curtis |
GregH
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 03:20 am: |
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400 miles a day?!! Wow, that's over 100K miles a year! Do you really need 4WD? Or could you make do with a Jetta Tdi diesel?
Anyways, if it's not going to be a throwaway vehicle, you might make a case for buying a 95-98 Disco in good shape at best price you can and take the difference from buying new and justify putting a Rover tdi diesel engine in it. Keep the suspension stock except for maybe poly blue bushings, bilsteins, and an inexpensive all-terrain tire. But that would only be if you plan to keep the vehicle for a long enough time to justify spending $ and maintaining it very well.
It comes down to a pretty personal decision based on your own long term plans, repair know-how, and actual use. |
GregH
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 03:26 am: |
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400 miles a day?!! Wow, that's over 100K miles a year! Do you really need 4WD? Or could you make do with a Jetta Tdi diesel?
Anyways, if it's not going to be a throwaway vehicle, you might make a case for buying a 95-98 Disco in good shape at best price you can and take the difference from buying new and justify putting a Rover tdi diesel engine in it. Keep the suspension stock except for maybe poly blue bushings, bilsteins, and an inexpensive all-terrain tire. But that would only be if you plan to keep the vehicle for a long enough time to justify spending $ and maintaining it very well.
It comes down to a pretty personal decision based on your own long term plans, repair know-how, and actual use. |
GregH
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 03:36 am: |
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Sorry for double posting! |
Russian Landy
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 04:53 am: |
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For your needs, I would definitely take a late model D1 which has been well taken care of. Less rear overhang and CDL. Much cheaper and you will be less afraid to bang it up on the trail. After the first 50k miles, they are much more reliable -- the bugs are all worked out already. The '97's and '98's are already much better quality -- BMW quality control guys already had some influence.
I'm not knocking Jeeps, but the Liberty is more of a cute car than a truck (that's what the market wants, after all -- 99% never go off road). If you're planning to get it dirty, get a Disco.
Somebody posted about an Isuzu Trooper -- I put 150,000 miles on one of those here in Moscow, Russia. Great truck -- incredibly bulletproof. But it is absolutely nothing compared to the Disco -- top heavy, narrow, scary on tough trails, crude part time 4wd with open diffs, transfer case hangs way down low and hangs up on rocks, terrible suspension. More reliable than the Landy, but in all other respects just no comparison whatsover. The Landy is even better on the highway -- much better suspension. |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 10:16 am: |
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Quote:Actually RJ, from my reading Consumer Reports does not have enough incedents on file to report Rover reliability. They have never, and I mean never issued an official rating on major component faliures or any other type of Rover faliures. I have been following this for quite some time, and looking for thier opinion. If you could kindly point me to the issue that CR rates Rover reliability then I owe you a nice big cup of cappucino.
Curtis
Curtis,
I didn't check CR, though, I did figure on them having something. It is a certanty that LR Reliability has been getting MUCH better since the BMW/Ford involvement...no more Lucas Jokes anyhow.
Short BBC Article....
Poke around online and see if you can find some of the articles from when BMW got out of the LR sector as there was much said about the warranty and warranty payouts at that time.
The thing that sticks out most in my head are the warnings that come from other LR owners...like, "buy two, one to drive, while the other's in the shop..."
RJ |
Mark & Bev Preston (Markp)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 11:57 am: |
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Keep in mind that you'll read about problems here because someone needs help. You won't hear from those that just drive. Go to any forum and it's pretty much the same. Remember when Toyota had head gasket problems? Don't know what the failure rate was but it was pretty high. Higher than LR but people still believe Toyota is better than LR. Marketing perception I remember when vehicles from Japan were junk. Why don't you see many old Toyota's on the road? As for Isuzu, the other morning here in Colorado it was both cold and high humidity. All the Isuzu Troopers I saw (3 or 4 in a 15 mile trip) had severly fogged inside windows. There's something wrong there.
As for BMW getting out of LR, LR was why they bought the Rover group. The car side turned out to be a significant money black hole and if I'm correct the head of BMW lost his job over it. The board of directors forced management to divest of the Rover group. Ford stepped in and bought LR, the only profitable part. It took BMW a long time to get rid of the rest of the pieces. Quality of British vehicles started rising in the early 80's as the British government ended socialization of the auto industry. It happened at different rates for different manufacturers.
So what happened with Mercedes - Chrysler? Mercedes is higher quality. I still won't buy a Chrysler (Jeep) product. Quality is not there.
- Mark |
Alan Yim (Alan)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 12:26 pm: |
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Didn't LR have a lot to do with the designing of the X5 for BMW?? I was guessing that one of the reasons BMW bought LR was to get help in getting into the SUV market. Could be wrong but that would make sense to me as to one of the reasons they bought LR.
Hey Russian Landy..."...incredibly bulletproof"????  Is this from field experience?? |
Joe M. (Little_Joe)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 12:38 pm: |
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For reliability, range, offroad ability, and adequate space, I'd consider a 1996-2001 4Runner with the factory electric rear locker (esp vs a Liberty). Famous Toyota reliability, fully boxed frame, decent power and space, and a *thriving* aftermarket.
Since I have a Toyota 4WD, I can afford to play with the Rover.
joe |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 04:09 pm: |
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Alan, the X5 has nothing Land Rover in it unless you want to call HDC a Land Rover item (I think that was more BMW's influence on Rover). The AWD setup on the BMW has more in common with the E30 AWD BMW 3 series and E34 5 series from the late 80's-early 90's. |
GregH
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 04:25 pm: |
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If I read your posting correctly re: your daily mileage then MPG is of big concern. That's why I discussed diesel transplant and that cost may be offset by fuel savings.
However, if that's not the case then I'd still go with late D1 over others. Just gain as much knowledge as possible re: the vehicle and maintain it!
I hate CR and Consumers Union. Do you really trust the same people who rate your TV and fridge to tell you what car to buy? They do not drive like I do and do not know what I do about maintaining a vehicle. They also are some of the one's killing good offroad vehicles due to "high rollover rates" and lack of safety and pushing low-to-ground air-bag invested Lexus RX300's (actually a car-based vehicle) and other "SUV's" that I have no interest in!! Axle articulation is a liability to them not an advantage! They also quote repair costs that are dealer list when I would only pay a fraction of that through the aftermarket and so has lttle or no relevance to my purchase! I firmly believe that 95+% of vehicle safety is driver-dependent so the fact that they quote the NHTSA and Insurance industry stats of crashworthiness is of only passing interest to me. Frontal and offset "safety" tests at 30 mph etc. have little relevance to sidehill rollover safety in my opinion. Did they test frontal safety with an ARB or RTE or other bullbar? Was that with or without a winch? haha
They also rarely or never rate the vehicles I buy because there are not enough for their statistical sample to be valid. I bought a Eurovan for the room and because I am a long-time VW fanatic and I know VW's and like the performance. They'll tell you that it's noisier than the Honda Odyssey or Toyota Sienna and drives too "van-like" not car-like,etc. I bought an Audi S4 for a great performance sedan and great handling and aftermarket upgradeability. They might only like the fact that it has 6 or 8 airbags and stats on repair probs reported by dealers and insurance industry.
My (lengthy) 2 cents-
GregH |
Scott
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 05:26 pm: |
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Greg- I don't hate CR, but have to agree with your statement. You have to take what they say about cars with a BIG grain of salt. Their "perfect" vehicle ratings are cost, safety, and car-like handling. There's little "Style" and no off road related bias. They complain that trucks don't drive like cars and compacts are small. Duh! But, like you said, it's because 95% of SUV buyers don't drive off road and want a "cool" looking station wagon. They aren't usefull if you want a real 4x4 for going off road.
Scott |
charles pastrano (Charles)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 05:53 pm: |
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I think you should try the new Cross Lander and report back. |
Geoff Wakefield (Geoff)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 08:18 pm: |
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Have owned Isuzu Trooper ('99), Discovery ('97), Range Rover ('93).
The Trooper is without a doubt the best real value. Huge inside, bullet proof boxed frame and truck based underbody components. Great suspension travel. The V-6 is a modern double over head cam engine with a stout 6 bolted main bearing caps. 215 hp. Transmission is GM 4L-30E. Transfer case is Borg-Warner. Originally designed for export markets that use them off road. No brainer.
Discovery, smaller, noisier, rougher riding, but more interesting. Beat the heck out of ours in Australia, but so did the Troopers (Jackaroos there), and we got stuck when they didn't. The Australian version's quality was so-so. The spark plug wires failed at 15K kms.
Range Rover - more interesting (to me) than Discovery although essentially same chassis, suspension, drivetrain. The most maintenance intensive vehicle I have ever owned, but its a hobby. |
Trying
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 08:47 pm: |
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Hello,
To clarify, when I said 400 miles/day, I meant on outings, not day to day travel. In fact, I walk to work. However, I live a minimum of 400 miles from almost anywhere I'd be going, and often it would be twice that. To me, the big problem with long trips is not ride comfort, but noise. My last truck beat me to death in that department, and it subtracted a whole lot of fun from the experiences I had with it.
A Trooper is an interesting idea that I'll look into a bit. I drove a 2002 Toyota 4-Runner, but I didn't think much of it. For one thing, the rear-end bobbed up and down incessantly for lack of a few grocery bags. Perhaps previous years were better. I have no idea what a "cross lander" is. While I'm commenting on competetors, I also tried an Xterra. It has IFS, but it does have a ladder frame. I hated it - the engine has no guts at all. |
Alan Yim (Alan)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 09:23 pm: |
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Al - I was thinking more along the lines that LR helped BMW design the X5 more than it actually having LR parts in it. I figured that BMW would have for sure tapped into LR for design ideas/help when designing the X5. That would make a lot of sense to me. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 09:34 pm: |
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not really they way it happened...BMW was a consultant on a number of projects at LR back as early as 1984
you can see the BMW styling in many of the interior items like fan/heater controls the push buttons behind the steering wheel, the vent...ect ect.
when they bought them it had alot to do with LR owing BMW a buncha money allready as I recall. |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 09:39 pm: |
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My dad used to have a Trooper. He bought it new in 1993 and then sold it in 99. It had about 155,000 miles on it, and it was in great shape. The interior looked good and the paint was in excellent condition. There was lots of cargo room inside, even more when the back seats where folded down. The engine was powerful, the suspension didn't beat you up and it got great gas mileage. On top of that, the only thing that went wrong with it was the starter motor died at 80,000. I $75 bill to rebuild and it was good to go.
The only drawback to the Trooper spawns one image from my mind. We where driving on a job site (dad is in construction) and we come to a point where the terrain gets real bad. He says we can't go anymore b/c we won't make it. That was the only thing wrong with that truck. We (kinda) know the guy who bought that truck, and it is still going good to this day.
In 99, he got a 95 Disco from his brother-in-law. It was a dealer maintained vehicle, and from the repair bills, it looked like it was in there a lot. Most of the problems where b/c the dealership couldn't do the repairs right the first time and screwed something else up at the same time. It took a year to sort out the truck. But the extended warranty made this less of a pain.
The "new" rig was louder, slower, and smaller. But then one day, I discovered recreational four wheeling. I took the old man's rig out on the trails and it was a dream. I was amazed at what it could do, dealing with ruts and steep hill climbs. I eventually found out that if I removed the plastic crap from the front of the truck, and the rear, it went even better. Ever since then, the truck has required little attention (knock on wood), and when it does, its the little stuff is nothing we can't fix up in our garage.
So, this is my Land Rover story. It has landed me with a Series 3 109 (and I'm proud of it). The 109 is the answer for the need of more room to carry stuff on longer outdoor adventures. The Disco now belongs to my sis' and she has expressed interest in recreational wheelin' after riding shotgun in my 109 a few times.
Road, Trooper. Really doing something, Rover.
Max T. |
Todd Sanders (Sanderskog)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 10:48 pm: |
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Tell you what "trying". I'll give you a nice price on my '99 D1. Found out over the weekend I may have to part with it to pay off my wife's van.
Hope not, hate to see it go. Damn priorities...
Todd |
R. B. Bailey (Rover50987)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 10:55 pm: |
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Put it this way, the Liberty had so many problems with roll overs in the first year of production that now they sell them all 2" lower than the original models. As if that actually solves the problem... bet you won't see that in a Heep ad on TV! (I think I heard that in Consumer Reports or Car & Driver, can't remember.)
But the Wranglers are great for off-road. Used to have one, drove like a brick on Lego wheels, but it was fun to take the top of in the summer and go anywhere I wanted - oh wait, that's why I own a '65 Series IIa now - nevermind.
http://landrover.mrbaileyshistory.net |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 08:12 am: |
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JD POWER LAndrover link
JD POWER Libby Link
These are how the owners rated these rigs.... |
Bill K (Bill_K)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 08:13 am: |
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I was told Honda dropped the Isuzus because their reliability was bad. This was from a Honda dealer.
I'd like to know what happened to the Disco's that had the BMW 2.8 I-6? I saw a few pictures of them several years back in a car magazine. I understand they were exported to South Africa.
I guess BMW decided to sell Rover off before the idea really took off. |
RonLF
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 08:41 am: |
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From what I understand the BMW 2.8 motor did not work well with in a Land Rover. It had no real low end torque, this was bad for everything but highway driving. |
Bill K (Bill_K)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 09:53 am: |
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Thats too bad, BMW makes some of the best car engines in the world (if not the best). I'm sure their V8 would have done well. Or a an M3 type 3.0 liter. |
Tripp Westbrook (Tripp)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 10:50 am: |
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In the past I've seriously considered going with a Jeep TJ conversion from AEV. By all accounts they do great work and give much needed room to the Jeep.
AEV Conversions
Personally, I've had my Disco now for three completely trouble free years and love it. We take it on at least two 20+ hour trips every year and haven't had so much as a hiccup.
The only thing I remember about Isuzu Troopers was the boxy original. We kept having to tow them off the beach down in Hatteras because their clutches kept burning up. But that was awhile back.
Just my .02 |
Trying
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 11:08 am: |
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Mr. Bailey - Jeep lowered the Libby 3/4 of one inch after a car magazine rolled one over in a slolam test. They did not do so because of reports of "so many problems with roll overs" in general, but only to counter the publicity of one magazine test.
During 50,000 miles of owning a L.R., I had just about every seal leak, the power steering box replaced, numerous electrical problems, the airconditioning failed three times, miscellaneous mechanical failures, etc. I was stranded once on a trail, but managed to fix the problem, temporarily, myself. I'd be scared to know how many thousands in warrantee work was involved. At least one good thing in all of this is that I now understand these cars very well and can do most repairs myself. |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:07 pm: |
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Hey RJ. Keep us posted on the DII build-up. I wanna see some pictures! |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:11 pm: |
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"Mr. Bailey - Jeep lowered the Libby 3/4 of one inch after a car magazine rolled one over in a slolam test. They did not do so because of reports of "so many problems with roll overs" in general, but only to counter the publicity of one magazine test."
well they lowered the top end model 2" and base models 3/4" so all are now the same static height . it wasent because one magazine either.
they did have a very high new owner rollover rate so jeep/chrys. made the move on there own. my brother recieved a notice that said if he desired it they would lower his as well at no cost, but that there is no formal recall at this time. |
Gil Stevens (Gil)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:24 pm: |
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"Thats too bad, BMW makes some of the best car engines in the world (if not the best). I'm sure their V8 would have done well. Or a an M3 type 3.0 liter."
there are alot of 2001-2002 M3 owners that might not agree with that.. or how about all the 740 and 750s that spontaniously combust? BMW quality is not what it once was. |
Trying
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:58 pm: |
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Muskyman, you are simply wrong. Both models are and always were the same height. Both were lowered 3/4 inches. I don't believe you can point to any evidence of "very high" roll-over rate. They absolutely never referred to that in any notice - that would have been corporate suicide. In fact, they denied (after the magazine article) any unusual tendency to roll over and claimed that the lowering was to improve ride quality. However, the move was obviously in response to the magazine article, which was widely reported. Please try to be factual in your claims. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 01:14 pm: |
|
trying,
just relaying what I have heard and read
i never said they admited the rollover issue, as god knows thats not a corporate type move
but they did offer to lower my brothers, and he has one of the first ones and the dealer said that the"new" suspension would be 2" lower because he has the taller model.( this is after he recieved a letter from jeep/chrys) so you tell me who I should believe. the dealer and the national magazines or you?
RJ, what are you finding? |
John
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 01:17 pm: |
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I heard the 2 inch thing too. My .000002 cents. |
Alan Yim (Alan)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 01:17 pm: |
|
"Trying", like you said, it would be corporate suicide so if that were the case, would they admit to it or publicly announce that fact? Probably not. So as a way to avoid "corporate suicide" what's the logical response; "deny any unusual tendancy to roll over and claim that lowering was to improve ride quality.".
Not trying to be difficult but your above response just counter argued yourself. |
Bill K (Bill_K)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 01:57 pm: |
|
Gil, your preaching to the wrong crowd. I come from a BMW family. never heard of spontaneous combustion or any other engine probs (maybe you mean the cylinder sleeve prob on older V8's?). Some cooling probs. but minor ones. BMW makes engines first, then cars. |
Trying
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 01:59 pm: |
|
I really don't need to get into an argument about this stuff. Go try to find a single link to any factual information (not hearsay) about a 2 inch lowering. By the way, I have brochures from the company for the pre and post-lowered models, so I believe I have the facts on this. As far as rollover rates - again, go find a single factual link about unusual *actual* roll-over rates.
If you wish, go here for a nutshell of the case: http://4wheeldrive.about.com/library/weekly/aa070102a.htm |
Gil Stevens (Gil)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 02:10 pm: |
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Bill,
The new M3s have been having many problems. I know a guy who I deal with that blew one up on the track. BMW replaced it, no questions asked. They have offically said that there have been 123 cases of premature engine failure on the new M3. Who knows how many it really is. Bmw is trying to keep it hush, but search the internet.. the truth is out there. http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm |
trying too hard
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 02:29 pm: |
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i don't think anyone here gives enough of a shit to try to find the factual link you seem to need. such a happy little car...such an angry little owner.... |
Trying
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 02:45 pm: |
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I'm not angry, nor do I own one. I have also remained polite and reasonable.
Have a nice day. |
trying too hard
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 02:54 pm: |
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yes, but you want one, and perhaps that is even worse. I had a Cherokee - nice truck. I have a Discovery - nicer truck. If you're on the "love" side of the "love/hate" perception of the happy-faced Liberty, then the Liberty would probably be better for your purposes. Just get it. |
Dave Roberts
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 03:14 pm: |
|
I agree that you should look at troopers also. I just sold a great 1995 with 75,000 miles on it for $8900.00. I wanted a Land Rover and the time was right to buy however the trooper was a great truck with no problems of any kind.
Keep in mind life is to short to drive and spend hard earned money on cars or trucks that don’t excite you. Click and Clack (car talk radio hosts) said one time "when you don’t love to wash and wax your car any more its time to trade" I agree with this statement if you are not exited about your toys get new toys
Land Rover / Jeep / Isuzu it doesn’t matter it's what makes you happy.
Dave |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 03:20 pm: |
|
who is angry? not me just another day on dweb
now...just stopped at my local jeep dealer and talked to the owner.
he says that the first liberty shipment had 2 trim levels and that they where different heights. standard and "off road group" He said that they did do a couple of the after sale lowerings and that it was a change of springs and rims. side by side he said they where a little more then an inch different before and after.he said they are now limited to putting a 235/70 as the biggest tire but the first ones had a slightly larger tire as a option.what that size was he wasent sure but he could find out.
he said that the new renegade also is 2" shorter then the original literature says now 70.2 was 72.4. and that the first literature called for a 265/75/16 with a 4:10 and a trac lock differential.the renagade now sports the 235/70 or a 235/65/17 as well.
well once again I am not angry here
one thing you should know...around here(dweb) its not all about TRYING
thats why people say
JUST DO IT |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 03:21 pm: |
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Gil - there have been problems with a few BMW engines in the past. But as you have said, for the most part they have replaced the engines no questions asked. For the most part the big sixes from BMW have been solid. I've owned a number of them over the past 15 years and I can say they're solid from experience. Even my current two V8's are good-great engines. Now try and get Land Rover to replace a prop shaft that is known to grenade before it actually takes out your transmission and transfer case. Talk about hush hush... mention leaky radiators, valvle problems and poor u-joints and see what Land Rover will tell you. And I'm only talking about the D2! |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 03:30 pm: |
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Muskyman, I don't think that is going to be good enough. We need a signed note from this dealer and he has to list all his sources of information as well as provide before and after pics of no less than three trucks that have been lowered 2 inches. Along with these pictures we will need no less than 4 signed accounts of witnesses who observed the lowering of the aforementioned trucks, also two of these witnesses must have physically helped in the lowering process. Until you get all of this your account is not factual. Oh yes and you will also be subject to a polygraph in order to make sure you did not forge all of this information. |
Gil Stevens (Gil)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 03:35 pm: |
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Al,
BMW is defintely a class operation. Thier inlines could possibly be some of the worlds best. I agree with that. But they have their issues as well. No brand is faultless. Hush-Hush? You dont even know the half of it. At LR dealer meetings if you even mention a radiator, valve issues, or oil leaks, a quick hush falls over the crowd and you are violently escorted out side. Its not that bad, but thats how it feels sometimes. They want to know nothing. period. it doesnt exist. |
Trying
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 03:57 pm: |
|
Muskyman, Carter and whoever else: Whatever you want to believe and whoever you want to beleive is fine by me. Personally, I wouldn't trust a dealer farther than I could throw one, and I do my own research. Regardless, the truth is out there. Have fun with it.
I agree with Dave - life is too short to drive something that doesn't make one happy. For that reason alone, I should probably get a Disco. After all, in my first post I said it myself: A liberty or some other competetor might do what I need, but that would be it - "no love affair." |
trying too hard
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 04:11 pm: |
|
I think you should get the Liberty. Measure the height of the Liberty. Have the dealer lower it. Remeasure height and report back. Then this incredible mystery will be solved, and you can cruise the strip with all the other lowered pimp mobiles.
Soon aftermarket vendors will be stocking the coveted Jeep Liberty 2" Lower Kit. Or the 3/4" Lower Kit, depending on who you trust. |
none
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 04:57 pm: |
|
Too - hard, you are an abusive troll. People are looking for tactfull posts by those that wish to make a sincere contribution. That, apparently, doesn't include you. Get your jollies somewhere else. That's a good boy. |
Brian Dickens (Bri)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 05:09 pm: |
|
I agree with many of the posters. You will not get over any relative difficult obstacles in a Liberty. It is pretty hard for me to believe that the angles are on a Disco are any worse than a liberty, but likely you have researched that already.
Liberty is brand new, likely the reliability of the Liberty could be worse than the recent Discos. Get an older used Disco that has been dealer maintained and includes records.
If you are even considering a Liberty then you will not be doing any trails that will "beat-up" a Disco, but then again you will be tempted to try more and more difficult trails if you really like the sport of it.
Frankly, I would consider a Cherokee, G Cherokee and Wrangler before a Liberty. |
GregH
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 05:19 pm: |
|
Re: the south african defender with bmw 6 cyl-they were made in S. africa and used the small block bmw I6-would've been better with big block 3.5 I6 (alot more torque) but that engine wasn't made in S. Africa and would've had to be imported=$$.
Re: the M3 probs-only ones reportedly having catastrophic valve probs were built in nov. 01 and dec. 01-no probs supposedly after that build time period-bmw claims is a "mystery" but is quietly replacing engines with owners who complain. There's a noisy website(I can't remember where-look in recent Autoweek I think)-not unlike streaks on this BBC of complainers-supposedly only very few engines actually affected but owners of Oct-Dec 01 claim that their engine "could go anytime" and want BMW to replace all engines built during this time even though no symptoms of prob now.
As to liberty ride height-I don't care... |
Ross Thoma (Rossthoma)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 05:34 pm: |
|
"None" (or anyome else) if you are going to get on the soap box and spout off, don't hide behind anonymity, put your name in the box!!!
Ross Thoma |
thom mathie (Muskyman)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 05:41 pm: |
|
I agree Ross...kinda funny someone calling someone a troll then posting anon?
see now I believe that the ride height of libby's causes cooling problems and engine failure in south african M3's |
Alan Yim (Alan)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 05:42 pm: |
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Hey Ross - you go girl...er boy!!! |
none.
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 05:51 pm: |
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You mean "trying too hard" wasn't hiding behind anonymity when he posted childish, insulting and foul-mouthed messages? Let's get real here. |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 05:54 pm: |
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I think that they were talking about all of the anon posters not just you. |
Greg Hirst (Gregh)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 05:57 pm: |
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Musky-If you read way above you'll see postings re: the bmw issues-but you're right, this threads going all over the place from the original question and is getting pretty funny! |
Trying
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 05:57 pm: |
|
Hello Brian,
The departure angle on a Disco is poor. The approach angle is about the same. A Disco is wider and it has a worse turning radius, too.
I'm sure it's easier to build on the Cherokee platform, given its solid front axle. I've considered those and will consider them some more. I guess I have a hard time believing, based on my direct experience, that anything short of a Yugo could have worse reliability than a Disco. But I have no experience with Jeeps and so you may well be right. I'm now leaning away from the Liberty, anyway.
I have plenty of experience with off-roading, including some pretty hard core stuff. However, I don't do much of the more insane things anymore. First of all, I do it more because I love the countryside than for sport, and second, because I'm most often out there alone. If I got stuck or broke down, there would often be no-one coming by for weeks and I would face a mighty long walk to the nearest road. So I'm more conservative than I used to be. From that standpoint, a vehicle that is "too good" for what I want to do is best - another reason for something like a Disco. |
Ross Thoma (Rossthoma)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 06:08 pm: |
|
none read the post more than once..
""None" (or anyome else) if you are going to get on the soap box and spout off, don't hide behind anonymity, put your name in the box!!!
Ross Thoma
That prety well covers all anon posters PERIOD.
this also comes to mind..
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame9.html |
Ross Thoma (Rossthoma)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 06:12 pm: |
|
none read the post more than once..
""None" (or anyome else) if you are going to get on the soap box and spout off, don't hide behind anonymity, put your name in the box!!!
Ross Thoma
That prety well covers all anon posters PERIOD.
this also comes to mind..
www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame9.html |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 06:20 pm: |
|
abusive troll...that's pretty funny. I like it. But after reading all this, you have to admit that the guy or girl who's "trying to decide" comes off like a wishy-washy, whiny bitch. Musky there posts some info and you challenge him to support it. Then, for some reason (probably to satisfy his own curiosity) he makes good on it and actually talks to the people who have done the actually lowering of the vehicles. Then you reply with
"Muskyman, Carter and whoever else: Whatever you want to believe and whoever you want to beleive is fine by me. Personally, I wouldn't trust a dealer farther than I could throw one, and I do my own research. Regardless, the truth is out there. Have fun with it."
What a pathetic cop-out. I'm sure your "research" is infallible and the guys turning the wrenches are the ones who are wrong. Armchair fucking warrior is what it sounds like to me. I think that you really posted your question because you've already decided on a liberty and you just want to be able to tell people "yeah, I looked at Land Rovers but didn't like em so I decided on a Liberty." Let me guess, you like to test drive Porsches on Saturdays but now you have to drive an hour out of your way to do it because the local dealers know that you're just a lurker.
Yes, let's get real here. Look at the subject title of your thread...ever heard the phrase "If you have to ask"? |
None.
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 06:35 pm: |
|
Blue - you are a rude, presumptuous, pin-head. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 06:36 pm: |
|
"(probably to satisfy his own curiosity)"
BLUE,
dropped my daughter at preschool at 12:30 central as I was waiting in traffic I looked across the street and saw the local jeep dealer and said to myself "self...bet they might know"
one more thing the dealer said
"if a customer so much as mentions offroad I reccomend the tj wrangler the liberty is really not a very good offroad truck"
FWIW
thom |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 06:40 pm: |
|
Yes, but Blue is probablly the funniest "rude, presumptuous, pin-head" around. And now he is probablly going to give you all sorts of hell, I think I will go get a beer, sit back and laugh as I watch this one unfold. |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:06 pm: |
|
Well, I'll tell you this: About two hours ago, I got into a wreck.
I was driving the Disco (95' D1), and a guy rear ended me. He was going about 25 mph (what he said, but probably faster), and I wasn't moving. The trucks' bumper is bent all out of shape, but still drivable. His Impala needs a whole new front and hood.
Physically, I am not injured, but I am shaken. I'd hate to think what would have happened if I was in a Liberty or some other POS like that.
Of course, the rest of the people here talk mostly about the off road ability of this truck. Well, the thing is damn safe too.
My 2 cents
Max T. |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:16 pm: |
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Damn Max, glad to hear you are allright. I hope your arn't sore or anything in the morning. |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:19 pm: |
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Oh yeah, don't let the insurance fix it. Get an estimate and take the cash, then at least you can get a purdy new aftermarket bumper for all your trouble. Have them make sure the frame is still in good shape though. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:23 pm: |
|
Presumption is my middle name. I'll tell you why...when dealing with folks like you, there is often no choice but to presume. There is often no available answer for "What in the hell is this idiot thinking?" People either post to get a question answered, or to have someone make a decision for them. You are obviously in the latter group with this wonderful thread. People give you some info for your benefit, to help you make your decision, and you cop a smart-ass, anonymous, know it all attitude. Looks like you can dish it out but can't take it. Hell, if I were you I'd avoid the Liberty and think Windstar.
Sincerely,
The rude, presumptuous, pin-head, aka the abusive troll. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:24 pm: |
|
P.S. don't take all this personally...it's the internet for Christ's sake |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:25 pm: |
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P.S. kiss my ass™ |
None.
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:27 pm: |
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It's the internet, so you get to insult a stranger? Pathetic. P.S., it's amazing how well you type with only one hand. |
chu
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:33 pm: |
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Yeah Blue, how dare you insult a stranger! At least do it to someone who don't post anon!
chu |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:40 pm: |
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typing with one hand? why? is it a joke, maybe indicating that I'm jacking off with the other, or maybe I have your mama's left breast in my other hand? I never saw the humor in those cheap lines. Sorry. |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:43 pm: |
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Blue, I think he meant the right breast. |
None.
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:45 pm: |
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Whatever. You are boring me now. Bye. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:46 pm: |
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I apologize Nun. Let's not resort to juvenile flames here. I'll crawl back under my bridge and wait for the billy goats gruff to cross, and you can go back to correcting us on the finer points of the Jeep Liberty here on Liberweb. |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:46 pm: |
|
Goodbye, don't come back. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:48 pm: |
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Nun has been Liberated |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:52 pm: |
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Blue, how dare you bore all our nice visitors to the point that they feel they must leave. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:54 pm: |
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bet we see NONE of him again |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:59 pm: |
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that was bad Musky
and Carter, I was trying to Liberate him from his bonds of ineptness. |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 08:02 pm: |
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Well, whatever it was it was damn funny.
And yes that was a beautifully tacky pun there Musky. |
Axel Haakonsen (Axel)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 10:45 pm: |
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Quote:"typing with one hand? why? is it a joke..."
I don't think we want to know what Blue really types with, it ain't his fingers.....
 |
Axel Haakonsen (Axel)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 11:05 pm: |
|
By the way, I am puzzled here.... How come "Trying" and "none" comes in on the SAME ip address? Do they know each other?? |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 11:25 pm: |
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Ha ha, BUSTED. Now go bother the liberty club. Good job Axel. |
John
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 01:46 am: |
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Well hell, we can't let it stop now. There's a good 120 more posts to go to beat the longest thread i've seen on here in my time hanging around here |
John
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 01:47 am: |
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And damn my inability to form a coherent sentence. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 10:54 am: |
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One more quick, sincere suggestion for "trying none" - this may be the best of both worlds for your vehicular needs:
http://www.discoweb.org/bbspics/5613.jpg |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 10:55 am: |
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and i thought kyle was the only one that pissed people off. the love is spreading. |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 10:59 am: |
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We need to appoint Blue head of the "ministry of flames" |
Ross Thoma (Rossthoma)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 11:51 am: |
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" Whatever. You are boring me now. Bye. "
You can see the estrogen oozing off that one.
And don't worry, she will be lurking around here for some time to come fuming.
Way to go Gandalf on the IP address thing.
Keep an eye open and let us know of her new ANON posts.
I love this place...
RT |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 08:34 pm: |
|
LOL, We should task Blue with determining people's internet personality. Check out the Flame Warriors page that was posted in the general section .
Hey y'all, relax, go out there and try to have fun with it .
Max T. |
Titus
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 04:47 am: |
|
"the Liberty had so many problems with roll overs in the first year of production that now they sell them all 2" lower than the original models" are you serious???? damn... that sucks.... guess the liberty just attracted a lot of new SUV buyers who thought they could race it around like a race car (read people who get SUVs for all the WRONG reasons) and now they modified the car for THOSE people's needs when they don't even know what SUVs are supposed to do! And make the rest of us who want SUVs for the right reasons suffer!
personally, Trying, I'd go for the wrangler Rubicon if you go for jeep. I have a 96 DI right now and I use it for light offroading sometimes and I need to get out of the truck numerous times to check rear departure clearance. with a wrangler I suspect one just aims and drive =)
but hmm... interesting to hear about the Xterra... I posted the same question here a few weeks ago asking whether to keep a 96 disco or get either a liberty(the renegade looks cool) or xterra in one year and the general consensus is that a DI will beat liberty or xterra any day
oh and about "- there have been problems with a few BMW engines in the past. But as you have said, for the most part they have replaced the engines no questions asked." I heard they won't replace your M3 engine if you kill it with the little easter egg feature on the new SMGII shifter (tip the shifter up to neutral, floor it and the electronics keep it at 3600rpm, and when you let go, voila, a perfect tire ripping standing start as from M. Schumacher =) )
AND about "At LR dealer meetings if you even mention a radiator, valve issues, or oil leaks, a quick hush falls over the crowd and you are violently escorted out side. " LOL! hey it's TRUE! I was at my dealer showroom while my DI was in for service and I was asking the dealer along the lines of "how's the QUALITY these days, you know I might consider another LR in a year if you could promise this one won't blow a gasket 2 months after warrenty's out or 900 bucks for O2 sensors" and his pupils LITERALLY DILATED and he walked me farther away from the other customers and said "yes, we have improved dramatically in quality controls since 1996, there has been over 900 improved parts compared to your DI" hahahaha
ok *read nearing the last of the posts* I guess the serious people have left this post -_- |
Brian Dickens (Bri)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 10:18 pm: |
|
But did the dealer do anything to help your particular problem? I guess not.
About departure angle and such. Ditch the stock bumpers. Do something that can take the abuse or even improve the angle. Dave Lucas has a good reference for the rear departure issue on a DII. I have a larger bumper, but it will take a beating, not to worry about departure angle (at least very much that is).
Regardless of approach angles a liberty sucks when compared to a Disco (IMO). |
Corey (Discobro)
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 12:36 am: |
|
Holy crap and a bunch more crap! Get back to the subject!
Ever consider buying a Subaru? |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 12:45 am: |
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Holy crap and a bunch more crap! Let it go!
Ever consider letting dead threads die? |
Todd Phenneger (Toddp)
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 01:59 am: |
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400miles a DAY. Man, what you need is the new VW Tourage with the V10 twin Turbo Diesel. :-) Torque, Fuel Economy, decent off road (frow what I can tell), great on road.
l8r
todd |
KJ
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 11:51 am: |
|
Watched "The Fellowship of the Ring" on vid last night, gearing up for "The Two Towers" release this week. Was reminded of Blue's feet. Any moron knows Blue's a Hobbit and not a troll....sheesh....
Karen |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 11:59 am: |
|
karen i cant wait to see the new "towers" mnovie...
it was your review that made me go see the first one!
rd |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 12:03 pm: |
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abusive Hobbit. Don't forget the abusive part. I didn't go to six years of abusive school for nothing, thank you. |
KJ
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 06:04 pm: |
|
Surly, too, for a Halfling. Alright, I dub thee Abusive Hobbit Extraordinaire! How's that, Furry Toes?
Awwwww, Rob......somebody listens to me? Sounds like you enjoyed the first film, let's hope the second one is as good. It'll be a few days after the opening before I can see it due to my work schedule, but post a review if you see it first!
Karen |
Gerald Parker
| | Posted on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 08:28 pm: |
|
The best four wheel drive unit I know is a dog (German Shepard of course), Oops my 97Disco is a dog also so the first statement can't be true!
GP |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Sunday, January 05, 2003 - 08:38 pm: |
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Just a little late w/ that one huh?? |
James Andrews
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 01:28 pm: |
|
Discovery's are the best!
In fact all Land rovers with a chassis are the best 4x4's!
All the other makes except old Jeep's(maybe) are disposable 4x4's You can keep LR's going for years, they may need more maintenance along the way but they last.
I have a S11A and a 95tdi Discovery over here in Scotland. They get used really hard for trialing,towing and every day transport, they never let me down.
Buy a Land rover. They know how to make a real 4x4!!!!!!!! |
stephen
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 10:36 pm: |
|
well, i have owned 2 jeeps, a cherokee sport, good truck served me well. and a laredo, piece of crap.
now i have a D2, and the difference is so amazing.
i drove jeeps for 8 years, but the disco has won my respect this winter so far. |
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