| Author |
Message |
    
Jason Johnson (Discomojo)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 01:07 pm: | 
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While this topic may seem a bit flimsy to some I thought I would ask for help. The ROVERS club is having it's annual meeting in a few weeks and a few of us thought that the often overlooked topic of proper spotter signaling should be addressed. I cannot count how many times I have questioned the various hand signals given to me by the spotters on hand for lack of knowing any better (myself included). With that being said, if anyone knows a good source for both driving and winching signals I would appreciate it. We plan to make handouts and give a brief summary of the most important signals with the hopes that they can be applied on the trails for increased safety and driver assurance. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 01:37 pm: |
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This topic is kinda funny to me. The way I see it the hand signals are unique to each crowd. Drivers get used to certain spotters and the signals they give like (Both hands in the air with a pissed off face means) "What the fuck were you thinking?" to me... 
I see that some people have actually wasted the time to post "Proper" hand signals and they include pretty pictures as well. It all gos out the window after you have been around a group for awhile and you develop your own means of comunication.
Kyle |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 03:38 pm: |
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Funny to me is when I see two people trying to spot the same person give two different kinds of hand signals both telling the person to do two differnt things.
Jason, what you're doing might be trivial but for someone as anal as I am it's much needed. And when you get into winching hand signals are very important.
I don't have the book handy but Tom Sheppard has a book (Off Roader?) that has widely accepted hand signals for both spotting and winching. |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 03:48 pm: |
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Hey Jason,
Remember that last trail ride at Killington? You can use that as an example of what not to do.... |
Joe M. (Little_Joe)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 06:47 pm: |
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I don't think there is any universal official correct set of hand signals. As Kyle alluded to, the driver and spotter need to agree on signals *prior* to the spotting; and there should only be one spotter and the driver should let others meddling about know that. I prefer the signals I learned in the military, others can't understand them so we compromise on what works best for the driver.
joe |
John Moore (Jmoore)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 07:46 pm: |
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I only know the appropriate hand signals for driving in NY traffic.
-John |
Robert Sublett (Rubisco98)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 08:33 pm: |
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http://www.coldbacon.com/photos/fudtz-signlanguage.html
Best hand signals I've seen in years! |
Jason Johnson (Discomojo)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 09:09 pm: |
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To respond to Kyle first, yes in a perfect world where you only ever ride with 5 people and they are all comfortable with you as a spotter then yes it's not really relevant. The point I am trying to make is that not everyone is a seasoned pro and I participate in many events with various levels of ability mixed in there. It's true that each person may add their own "individualized" signals but my goal is to try to minimize confusion and disorder which I'm sure you will agree has led to many a trip to the local LR body shop. Many people have had little experience spotting and offering any advice would do them good for future outings. You don't always get to choose your spotter given the situation you find yourself in but it would be nice if you could be confident in their commands. Which leads me to respond to Paul...
Yes that last trail ride in Vermont was a goddamn mess. The spotters should be ashamed of themselves for putting vehicles at risk the way they did on that ride. That one section was definitely NOT airdam safe despite the "sure c'mon and do it" and I can remember a spotter telling someone in a stock rangie to "line the big rock up right between the two front tires" that way (thank god) the Michelins are spared while the diff takes a direct hit. European Vacation comes to mind -"don't worry it's only a flesh wound". I remember telling you and Greg Parrish to tell those bastards to stay the hell away from me if I needed to be spotted because I didn't trust them. While all the signals in the world would not have corrected this bad advice, the airdam on the following Disco could have used some more effective instruction which leads me to Al.
Al, thanks for the advise, I will look for that resource this week. I agree with you that the most compelling reason for some idea of hand signals is the sometimes conflicting motions that people make (Disco at vermont). Reality has shown that often times you may need the input of more than one person while completing an obstacle. As far as winching is concerned, that is arguably one of the most dangerous parts of offroading and unfortunately many do not have an appreciation for the amount of energy stored in a metal cable with a 5000lb vehicle on the other end or the potential risks of a vehicle in motion itself while being winched. I figure if a few of us use some of the more basic signals regularly others may use them more frequently and so on. There really is no disadvantage that I can think of other than spending a few minutes to look at the diagrams. |
Jason Johnson (Discomojo)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 09:11 pm: |
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god that's funny as hell Robert |
John Moore (Jmoore)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 10:16 pm: |
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Robert, Just made me blow beer through my nose!
-John |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 07:50 am: |
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Good Shit Rob,
But I though it was .."32cent, not 32 cents"
Paul |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 09:02 am: |
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Don't know if it's the same disco you are talking about Jason, but that last trail ride had a stock disco II on 18" rims and tires with zero mods. I couldn't believe they let the guy on the trail cause it was considered a more advanced trail. The worst part was, that we had almost 20 cars on that trail with a guide in front and a guide in back. The stocker disco was behind me, so I spent more time out of the car than in it it seemed like. The driver of that disco was pretty gung ho, and would attempt stuff before you could get through it yourself and run back to spot.
The few sections I remember him getting help from the guides, they basically helped him loose his fog lights and his air dam. As far as my thought goes, that truck had about as much business on that trail as a chevy caprice, however he finished the trail which says a lot about the truck. If he had been given proper spotting through the rock beds and through the small ravine, he could have finished without major damage, but the trails guides didn't do much for spotting, that's for sure.
I thought that was a great trail, and enjoyed getting to ride it, but Jason is right in that there was no real organization or set of basic commands or signals in use. There tended to be the buddy system in play for guiding. One to three guys up in front of the truck yelling commands, and a guy or two standing at the drivers window repeating the commands. Great system, huh? |
Jason Johnson (Discomojo)
| | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 10:38 am: |
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A few of the signals he learned that day...
1)Both hands on head (as the sight of a torn airdam and foglights on a relatively new vehicle are realized)
2)One hand to the rear pocket of his pants (to get out the wallet)
3)One hand covering his eyes (preparing for the bill from LR)
4)two hands on his ass in a rubbing motion (from the red eye he was given)
I don't know whether it was his enthusiasm or the spotter's refusal to tell someone to back up that got him where he was. |
Robert Sublett (Rubisco98)
| | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 10:45 am: |
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That sound right Paul. I be tellin dem dat soon's I can to co-rectify dat shish. |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 12:20 pm: |
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the Big Daddy
| | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 01:58 pm: |
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"Go ahead and stop" & "Can we start to stop" are my personal favorites. The best was from me with , "I'm not sure about your line" . Followed by a sharp jab on the gas pedal resulting in the loss of a nice sticker collection .
I've assumed most folks understand an open hand means proceed and a closed hand (fist)means stop . You know what happens when you assume ........ |
Jason Johnson (Discomojo)
| | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 02:28 pm: |
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Evan, you didn't throw your body in front of Ron, that's where the breakdown in communication came in...duh! What's the hand signal for gun-the-shit-out-of-it again??? And why didn't I see that tree in court for attacking an innocent Disco? Actually I'm looking forward to seeing him at the ROVERS event in February. We'll see if we can get the other side to match. I believe in the "bring snowchains" statement now. Stories by the cabin fire.... |
Kim S (Roverine)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 02:24 am: |
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Okay, a little late to the party here ... 
Example of the hand signals that I understand ...
Kim |
Kim S (Roverine)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 02:31 am: |
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hehehehe ... sorry ... one more try
 |
Kim S (Roverine)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 02:44 am: |
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Since then, "Rrrrrrricky" has a new bumper, so my spotter better be extra careful .... (still say he had a bag of M&M's in the other hand - works best for me. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.
Kim
Best wishes for 2003!! |
Kim S (Roverine)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 02:51 am: |
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New Year's resolution: I promise I will try not to waste bandwidth and test my pics better before posting. |
KJ
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 10:08 am: |
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Kim,
Buy a t-shirt, it lessens the guilt.
Karen |
Kim S (Roverine)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 02:10 pm: |
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I already did that, but I still feel guilty ... LOL, actually I should feel ashamed (haha!).
Kim
P.S. I told Greg he must only wear the t-shirt to the gym where most will it interpret him as just being a goofy disco(dancin') freak |
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