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Brian
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 07:49 pm: | 
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I recently tore down the hubs and swivel balls on my '97 D1 (95K mi). I cleaned and replaced seals all the way down to the main swivel seal (the big 6" seal). Now, upon reassembly, my Disco wants to jump into the next lane after every bump and shimmys badly. Obviously my swivel preload needs adjusting. How do I do this? I have been into the archives but I cannot find an explanation that my limited intellect will understand. I can buy the fisherman's scale, but after that I need some very detailed instructions, including any wierd tools I might need. I can strip the hub back down to the swivel ball again. In the next few days I will be rebuilding both front calipers and would like to set the preload then. Thanks in advance.
BTW, I saw the argument (in the archives) about the time it takes to strip a hub down to and including the swivel seal. It took me about four hours per side to get down to the main swivel seal and put everything back together, and I have every tool that I needed. |
Steve
| | Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 02:50 am: |
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With seal removed, swivel ball and swivel hub assembled on workbench. Axle flange secured to a surface, use scale onto the drag link connection and the turning effort should be 1.16-1.46kg (11-14N). Remove shims to increase preload, increse shims to reduce preload.
Reassemble seal and retainer ring and put it all back together?
Or you could take the easy option and just remove a few shims while it is all assembled. Potential to bugger your brand new swivel seals, but will save 4 hours?
-steve- |
Alex Schubow (Alex)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 07:39 am: |
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A friend of mine who is an LR Tech showed me how he does it at the shop--they do it by feel, with the hub assembly and all seals intact, and the swivels filled with oil (or grease, as the case may be)
Place a jack under the axle and lift it up. Place a small jack stand under the hub, and lower the jack. The reason for supporting the hub is this--if it is unsupported, oil (or grease) will leak out past the swivel seal when you remove the swivel pin bolts to add/remove shims.
Remove the brake caliper, pop out the ball joints from the knuckle. remove the bracket that supports the brake hose. Throw a few shims on there and impact down the 2 swivel pin bolts.
Jack the axle back up and give he assembly a turn. it should turn freely, but should not be loose. This is kind of hard to explain, but goes kind of like this--if you turn it and it keeps going on its own, it is too loose. if it offers any resistance, it is too tight. With a new seal, chances are it will be too loose and you will need more shims. Keep adding shims until it feels tight. Note that if you replaced the actual swivel ball with a new one (or new bearings), you will probably need to reshim it for more preload after driving a bit, as it will loosen up a bit on its own.
Easier than the fish scale method for sure. The other method per the shop manual involves measuring the force that it takes to turn the assembly with an in-lb torque wrench, with everything stripped down. looks very scientific and all, but unless you have an adapter of the exact same length that LR specifies, you will never hit the target.
good luck |
Brian
| | Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 08:54 am: |
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Thanks. One queston. Exactly where are the shims located? I assume the swivel pin bolts you mentioned are the ones next to the brake rotors (not the ones BEHIND the swivel assembly). I think they are the 14MM ones? Believe it or not, I am not a novice, I just never have done this. |
OLIVER CLOTHSOFF (Everythingleaks)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 09:19 pm: |
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The shims are under the top pin which is under the bracket the brake hose connects to |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 12:46 pm: |
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I'm glad to hear somebody other than me advocate the adjustment by feel method. I have done many this way and they have always shown a marked improvement afterwards. Although, I wouldn't advocate the use of an impact wrench to tighten the swivel pin back again, though. I prefer to use a torque wrench so I can be sure I have consistent pressure against the shims.
The swivel pin shims are located beneath the bushing into which the ABS sensor rides. There are two different shims, one that is circular, and another with ears and three holes, one for the ABS sensor, and the other two are for the swivel pin bolts. There are no special tools required other than attention to detail and patience.
You may also wish to replace the swivel pin thrust bearing. Given the handling problems you've described, and the unusually low mileage for this to have occurred, I would consider the thrust bearing to be suspect, along with the lower swivelhousing bearing. The lower bearing is a common tapered roller bearing available at NAPA-P/N upon request. I have nearly 100K more than you and my swivels are still tight enough to not require repair or adjustment, along with my CV joints (yes, I know I'm on borrowed time...)
Peace,
Paul |
Brian
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 05:46 pm: |
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What is the NAPA part number, Paul? I appears that I have suddenly begun amassing a whole new parts collection for this swivel ball/housing. I can't believe that I disassembled and reassembled this thing and left out so many steps. By the way Paul, I ordered the new shims and found out there are different sizes. This might be a broad question, but how many shims are common? In other words, how many might I be adding to each side? I am asking to get an idea if I ordered enough shims. Thanks in advance. |
Alex Schubow (Alex)
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 08:17 pm: |
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Eh--I wrote up there that you add shims to tighten it up, and remove shims to loosen it. I meant the opposite. If it's too loose, you won't need additional shims |
OLIVER CLOTHSOFF (Everythingleaks)
| | Posted on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 08:38 pm: |
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Try this first - remove the smallest shim under the pin between the housing and the pin on both sides and drive the truck. This will normally cure the evils. If it is too tight then add one side back in and if it is too loose then remove the thin shims one at a time from alternating sides. I am pretty sure this will correct your problem without shelling out more on parts. |
Brian
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 07:51 am: |
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Thanks "Oliver", that's great advice, I'm going to do it right now. BTW, I get a kick out of your Username. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 10:38 am: |
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For some reason, swivel preload must have been the problem du jour as I must have gotten three phone calls concerning it yesterday!
Brian:
I have no idea what the common number of shims is as I'm certain they are added/subtracted to make up for manufacturing variations and most likely, as soon as an acceptable preload is achieved, the truck moves down the assembly line. I prefer to use the fewest I can just because it makes me feel better to use the fewest pieces-there may be an engineering contradiction to my logic though! As for did you order enough shims, I bought a pile of different thickness shims for both applications. Haven't bothered to see if there is a means to measure the parts and extrapolate an amount of shims needed to achieve acceptable results.
The P/N for the lower swivel pin bearings is Timken 11590 I believe this is the set with the race, cage and rollers.
Don't fret over leaving steps out. I many cases, it is not necessary to work on the preload.
Peace,
Paul |
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