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Mark & Bev Preston (Markp)
| | Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 09:54 pm: | 
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Just bought a 95' classic LWB with 49K miles for my wife. It was a garaged Texas vehicle so it's in great condition. Everthing works and still has the air suspension. I have a 98' Disco with a 2" OME lift so the Range Rover is definitely different.
The other day the Rover was idling and the rpm's went up about 250 rpm's for a second and then back to normal. The service engine light came on. Checked the code under the passenger seat and it was #48, stepper motor. The previous owner had been running a K&N air filter and the intake plenum needs to be cleaned. I pulled the stepper motor, cleaned out the passages with carb cleaner, cleaned the stepper and shot it with WD40. Reassembled and the idle steps at startup seem better. Question is how to reset the service engine light. I've found several places that talk about the procedure that disconnects the serial link for 10 seconds, question is where is the serial link? Is it the connector off the block box that displays the codes? Also have read about disconnecting the battery cable while maintaining 9V on the system so you don't lock out the radio. Looks like it time to buy a Range Rover set of books to match the Discovery.
TIA,
Mark |
David
| | Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 11:47 pm: |
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Hi Mark,
Congradul;ations on your RR purchase. I also just very recently purchased a 95 RR LWB. Unfortunately I have to get a set of "books" too, so I don't know where the serial link is.
I have a question I have been trying to find out. If I make a fairly tight complete circle slowly ( from a resting start) in either direction, I get what feels like a pulsating feel (like something is rubbing on the inside of one of the tires) and it alternates (s I make the circle) from being there and not there. It also feels like one of the tires is "breaking loose" then sticking to the pavement. I've heard a few explanations for this in the RR, all different inclusding this sometimes is felt in 4 x 4's of an older vintage. If you have a chance, could you make a circle at approx. 5-10 mph and tell me if you feel anything strange as you do. Going straight or making a turn at normal speeds,everything feels normal and I've never felt this in a Disco making a 360 degree circle. Keep in mind, my vehicle(Air) has been converted to Springs and I has the stock Michelins on it. I'll look forward to hearing what you experience. Thanks! |
Mark & Bev Preston (Markp)
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 10:32 am: |
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David,
It's amazing the difference between the 98' Disco and 95' RR. The Disco is based on the RR Classic frame. Granted the RR is 8" longer but I was surprised by the RR. I've even thought of finding a SWB 95' RR, mmmm.
As for the tight circle I'll try it out. Haven't noticed that yet. Could be the viscous transfer case vs. the Disco's "open" transfer case. I now on my International Scouts when I lock the transfer case in 4wd and make a tight circle the vehicle will what I call load up then unload. It feels like its walking the circle. As you turn, the inside wheels and rear wheels rotate at different speeds and with the transfer case locked the unequal torque must be relieved. Thus the breaking loose then sticking feeling. If you have the pleasure of doing this in a older 4wd without power steering make sure your thumbs are clear of the steering wheel spokes. I'll try it with the RR but I would suspect this is the cause and the open vs viscous transfer case is the answer.
Mark |
David
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 11:19 am: |
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Hi MArk,
Thanks for your very thoughtful reply. First I couldn't agree with you more, the difference between driving a 97 Disco (in my case) and the 95 RR LWB was amazing in so many respects. I was prepared for the very pleasant difference (not that I don't love the Disco too!).
Your description of what happens with your International Scott, is exactly what I am feeling with my 95RR LWB when making slow tight circles...exactly. maybe thats why people say with "All Wheel drive vehicles" that depend on Viscous Transfer cases, do strange things when making a circle at slow speeds (vs. true 4 wheel drive with a T case like the Disco? If that was the case, wouldn't a car like the Subaru Forester with all whell drive (which I believe uses Viscous transfer do the same thing?
Still with the RR using Viscous Transfer case why would the transfer case be "locked" when making a circle but not locked at other times? At slow turning speeds does it think I am "rock crawling"?
I'll look forward to see what you find with your 95 RR LWB.
One other issue I have (besides cn't get the meory feature to work on the seats although the fuses are fine). It's the lock on my tailgate..which is sort of working backwards. WHen it's in the unlocked position and the car doors are locked...if I unlock the car doors, the tailgate will lock (go figure!). If the tailgate is unlocked and I lock the doors, the tailgate wil still remail unlocked! (I am aware of the "horizontal key position perminately locked override position"). I have a question concerning your tailgate lock. If your tailgate is locked and you take your key and turn it all the way to the left to unlock it, will the buttons on the doors unlock since the tailgate lock is suposed to be part of the central locking system? I'd be curious to know what yours does? I can't figure out why my tailgate lock only seems to work in one direction (the opposite of what it is supposed to do) when I use the keyless remotes. I'm tempted to unscrew the panel where the lock and upper rear tailgate taillight is.
Will look forward to your findings on driving a circle and tailgate and again I appreciate your theory regaring the wind-up and unwinding of the T-case. By the way, any other small issues you find need attention in your 95RR? Thanks! |
perroneford
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 11:31 am: |
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Mark,
Service engine light gets reset by the dealer. There is another way to do it, but it requires the use of a paper clip around some sensitive electronics. I wouldn't suggest that to a newbie.
David,
Your Viscous coupling is siezed. That's why you get the tire scrubbing sound. Essentially you are doing the same thing as driving the Disco with the center diff lock engaged in High-Lock. Not a good thing. Get it fixed before you break something.
-P |
Mark & Bev Preston (Markp)
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 01:00 pm: |
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Dumb me - its the check engine light. Your right about the service engine light. It comes on at 52K miles and I've already reset it. That an easy one. Thanks for the catch Peronne. Now if everyone would allow me to start over - The check engine light is on and where/which is the serial link cable? I also read somewhere about pulling the EFI fuse, cycling the ignition switch off-on-off, reinsert fuse which reset the ECU. Not wanting to cause other problems it seems the serial cable route is the most recommended method.
Mark |
Ali
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 01:08 pm: |
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David,
If your check engine lights is still on, then you're correct in disconnecting the serial plug. This is essentially the huge plug that's on the ECU under teh pass seat. At least that's where mine is. The proper procedure is: key on ignition, disconnect plug, wait for relay to drop out (5-10s), then reconnect plug. This will extinguish your Check Engine light. You may get a code 02 on your display - ECU lost power code.
As Perrone said, the Service Engine light is an emissions reminder and can be reset using a paper clip (or anything that's about 1/4" wide) and inserting through the label on your emissions reminder unit, also located under the pass seat but accessible from the rear only.
Also, as a side note, you can remove the Diagnoistic Display and move it to a location that's convenient. This is so that you won't have to remove teh side bottom seat thing for access. In my case, I relocated the display so that I can read it from the driver seat. The wires are pretty long. |
Steve (Scrover)
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 01:10 pm: |
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I just disconnect the battery for a few minutes to kill the 'check engine' light. Works everytime. Mine's a 93, not sure if 95 is the same. Make sure you have your radio code handy. |
Ivan 94 LWB (Montoya)
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 06:11 pm: |
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I had the same shaking problem during sharp turns when I first picked up my 94 lwb with 111k miles. The service records mentioned that the transfer case needed work. The front right tire was worn down much more than the left so it was the right wheel locking up. Took it to Roverland and they immediately suspected it was the transfer case. Depending on the severity, it would cost between $500 and $4000. Better get yours checked out immediately. Until then, take turns as wide as possible and avoid tight parking garages.
Roverland ended up replacing the viscous coupler to the tune of $1700. I love this car. We sold a 2002 bmw 325 convertible to start a new business. That was a great car, but I love how the rover can give me the same amount of pleasure from it's character at a fraction of the cost. |
Mark & Bev Preston (Markp)
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 09:08 pm: |
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David,
For the tailgate lock - Mine works per the owner's manual. "The tailgate is included in the central locking system, but the lock can be overridden by using the key. By using the key to unlock the tailgate, the status of the door locks (locked or unlocked) will not be disturbed." If my central locking system and alarm is activated (locked), using the key to unlock the tailgate leaves the doors locked and alarm activated. If the central locking system and alarm is deactivated the doors and tailgate unlock. Using the key to lock the drivers door locks all doors and tailgate and arms the alarm.
I'll suggest a couple of areas to look at. Don't rule out mechanical issues in the assembly of the lock. Also the electrical system is DC. Since I'm not sure how RR solenoids work, it's possible someone replaced the solenoid and wired it in backwards? Could be the wires are reversed upstream also.
Good luck.
Mark |
David
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 10:55 am: |
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Thank you all for your invaluble info.
Perroneford & Ivan --- From what you described it does sound and feel like a have a good case of the Viscous Coupler being seized and will have it looked into as soon as possible. I hope there is no damage to any of the transfer case gears. I don't hear anything, is that a good sign that no damage has been done yet?
Mark,
I truky appreciate your feedback on the tailgate. It seems like you mentioned..that the wiring may be backwards and also that the lock only gets activated in one direction (may be partially seizing). I'll look into it after I first look into the possible siezing of the Viscous coupler.
*** What would really help out is to hear if your 95RR does the same when making tight circles as I described. I would hate to suggest to (LR etc.)I might need such a repair when I might not (maybe just wishful thinking on my part). Anyhow, just let me know what you find when you have a chance and thanks again to everyone! |
David
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 12:07 pm: |
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Hi All,
I wonder if my prblem is a seized Viscous coupler, would I get this strange feeling when makng a tight circle, going in either a left handed or right handed circle equally?
I am just about to post a new message in the RR Discussion group to see if anyone else who has a RR LWB notices when they make a slow fairly tight circle, they feel a pulsating type feeling as though the transfer case is alternating betwen winding up (like a Locked differential)and then the unequal torque must being relieved....thus feeeling a breaking loose then sticking feeling as one drives the 360 degree circle. I feel this in either direction. Before I drive the vehicle again and bring it in for what may be a costly job, I just want to make sure that it somehow isn't felt in other RR LWB vehicles. I do know some other "All wheel Drive vehicles" that make use of Viscous fluid to traction, do some strange things when making a tight circle. Thanks again! |
Ivan 94 LWB (Montoya)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 02:11 pm: |
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I'm no mechanic and am only relaying what I remember so feel free to correct me . . . as Mike mentioned, the pulsating feeling is from the locked up wheel trying to break free in tight turns. The wheel farthest from the center of your turning radius travels longer. When your wheels are locked up, it's trying to travel the same distance. That's a lot of stress so thats why you want to get it fixed right away. Disproportionate wear on one of the tires is a sign of the wheel thats locking up and trying to break free. The longer it's been doing this, the more severe the damage. If it just recently locked up, Phillipe from Roverland said the viscous coupler can be repaired for less than $1k. My viscous coupler had to be replaced for $1.7k. If my differential was damaged, it would have been $4-5k. |
David
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 03:03 pm: |
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Hi Ivan,
I really am appreciative of the info you provided and it is most helful. all signs point to a problem with the Transfer case and speciafically with the Viscous Coupler...other above graciously pointed out. Your explanation of what is happening and why is what I've deduced from yours and others explanations and now I can see why when driving with the wheels straight ahed the problem is not really noticed as ech wheel has essentially the same turning radius unlike when the vehicle is turning, especially in tight circles. My other post I just put up a couple of hours ago was just to see how many experiened this in their RR and what turned out to be the problem. I guess I am also doing some wishful thinking and hoping it turns out to be something minor, but for all indications, I'm going to have to bite the bullet with this one. Thanks again for relaying your experiences, it really helps! |
Mark & Bev Preston (Markp)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 03:10 pm: |
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David,
I've thought about this and discussed it with Bev. We put close to 3000 miles on the RR in the last month. It's parked in the garage resting right now :-) Thinking back to the times I've taken tight turns in parking lots I did not notice the "breaking loose / sticking feeling" you described. The viscous coupling is suppose to relieve any torque build up by allowing the axles to operate at different speeds during turns.
Mark |
Ivan 94 LWB (Montoya)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 03:51 pm: |
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David,
I hear you on the wishful thinking. I searched all over the web for similar problems but didn't find any matches. I wanted to think it was not a common and expensive problem. The family that owned my rover before me was very wealthy and seemed to take very good car of the car. Just in the last year, they spent $2k to replace the air suspension with bielstein springs another $600 to replace the water pump, all the belts and other minor repairs. They never fixed the transfer case as advised in the mechanic's notes but I went ahead and purchased the car for $7.8k because I've wanted one since high school when they first came to north america.
Our mentality going into this was that we could spend $15k on a car or get my 'dream car' for about half the price and pay around $5k+ in repairs down the road if needed. So far the repairs since october'02 have been $1700 for the viscous coupler and $480 for a new discovery starter. The starter just quit working one day. Fortunately it was in our garage. I signed up for AAA and had it towed the next day 
Ivan |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 05:38 pm: |
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if you guys invest in some tools and manuals and stick around here long enough you can split that bill down 50-75% and do the work yourself.
david, i know you keep mentioning it but i am not convinced it's your VC seized. i think it's something else. mainly becasue you'll hear the tires chirp during the bends. i guess it might be on it's way out, but i dont know why it would just seize up and be done.
that and it's most common for them to seized unlocked.
rd |
Ivan 94 LWB (Montoya)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 05:57 pm: |
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I'd love to learn how to do repairs myself but am short on space to do the work and store the tools. We live in a small 1br condo with little closet space; we buy double roll toilet paper out of necessity. Building rules say we can't even change the oil in the our garage. It's also our only car so I'm hesitant to experiment on it. Sometimes I'm tempted to leave the city and get one of those 3 car garage homes. I would like to fill them with the following: a reliable automatic car for my wife, a rr classsic, and a manual e36 m3 sedan. Until then, I'll keep educating myself here. |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 06:49 pm: |
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yeah... , you make some friends here and maybe they have a garage.
personally oil change is the one thing i still dont like to do... hehe.
rd |
Ivan 94 LWB (Montoya)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 08:47 pm: |
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you mean i could have had my viscous coupler replaced for the cost of the parts and a case of beer? hehe |
David
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 11:19 pm: |
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Hi Ivan and Rob,
Before I repeat what I wrote on my other post (titled "Does Your Range Rover Experience This?") I do want to thank both of you for your thoughts and info. It truly helps! Rob as for hearing "chirpping" I can't really say whether I had or not, since since I discovered the problem, I have not driven the vehicle as to avoid making the problem worse...till I find out whats actually wrong. I should have opened my window when I made those 360 degree circles. Maybe the Viscous coupler isn't completely gone if it is going bad...maybe on it's way out and is partially functioning? In any case I also asked someone locally and they immediately thpought (based on what I described)that it sounds like the Viscous coupler or at the very least, something with the transfer case. So unless I quickly find its something else, it looks like the part will have to be ordered and insalled. I asked on my other post if I am correct in assuming that the Viscous coupler is in the rear?
**Also during and after installation, does anything with the steering system get disturbed or have to be re-adjusted? I ask since the vehicle is tracking perfectly with absolutely no vibration..and hope it stays that way.
Ivan,
I too purchased this RR as it was a wish that I alsways had and realized some money would initially have to be specnt on it..although I didn't expect such a major repair such as this. I am tring thought to work on it little by little and learn as much as I can, so I can keep costs down. The coupler though will have to be installed by a local garage who does have some experience.
Besides the part I wonder if anything else has to be ordered or is manditory to have when replacing the Viscous Coupler?
We'll see what happens in the next couple of days and I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks all! |
David
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 11:22 pm: |
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Hi Mark,
I just wanted to address your feedback. I appreciate your letting me know you don't recall your vehicle doing what mine is doing with 360 degree turns. That is helpful in knowing it apparently is not "normal". Sounds like you got a good one Thanks once again! |
perroneford
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 07:37 am: |
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Viscous coupling is in the front of the transfer case. You're steering is not involved or disturbed. In fact, some have changed the viscous coupling without removing the transfer case from the truck. It's harder this way, but apparently can be done.
Why not give a call to the helpful folks at Rovers North (yes I know they are expensive) and see if you can find out if anything else needs to be replaced with the viscous coupling. Probably going to want new hardware on there but there isn't much else. That nut is 30mm if you are doing this yourself.
Best of luck,
-P |
David
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 09:18 am: |
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Hi Perrone,
Great, thanks for letting me know about the steering and it not being affected. Thats one less thing to worry about. I'll call Rovers North and see what they have to say and if anything is needed. Guess I better get the ball rolling on this one. I now feel more confident that once the CV is replaced, all wil be well..at least regarding this problem. Thanks! |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 10:07 am: |
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dave the more you describe and answer i am too starting to think it's the VC.. hehe sorry i held out as long as i could.
rd |
David
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 01:24 pm: |
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Hi Rob,
You mean I'm good at convincing the public...hmm..OK, maybe I'll consider a run for the Presidency in 2 years. My campaign promise is two Rovers in every garage (and of course free 4 years worth of service thrown in!)
Of course if you had held out and it was something that would have cost me less to repair, I would have nominated you for a new cabinet position..to run the " Office of Off Road Transportation". In any case I appreciate all your suggestions and feedback. |
timmy
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 04:40 pm: |
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here is a real easy tip to all asking about viscous coupler. its simple it is seized as many others have suggested. keep making tight circles in the parking lot and you will eventually find out. and then you can say holly it really was seized. come on man. think about it. get it fixed pronto. or break something. the problem has nothing to do with steering adjusters? this or that. it is very simple proceedure now think hard, how many have mentioned seixed coupler, GET THE VICOUS COUPLER FIXED. cut and dry . black and white. |
David
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 10:08 am: |
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Hi Timmy,
Thanks for your response. As I mentioned on a previous post, part of the cost for replacment will be footed by the seller (who knows little about what the problem is)and I wasn't sure (with my limited knowledge) that it was the VC. With the info everyone provided, I was able to make an iron clad case to the owner that it was the VC and no need to go on a fishing expedition to look for something else. I also didn't want to end up with a big bill just in case it might by chance to be something else. In time we all learn more and more and what was obvious to most (the symptoms and solution), it wasn't to me. I do appreciate yours and everyones help. Now as someone else has mentioned, I hope the Transfer Box chain isn't stretched. Are there obvious symptoms when it is? Thanks! |
David
| | Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 09:38 am: |
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I owe everyone here a big thanks (and also some beer of course) who posted their "very" helpful comments, tips, suggestions etc. to my RR problem (stated above). Without having your help, it might have turned into a "fishing expedition" and the issue not getting resolved as quickly as it did and end up doing more costly damage. It was as everyone suggested the Vicous Coupler. A new one was ordered and installed and everything appears to be fine..no more "scrubbing" or "pulsating" during tight turns. Now onto the other niggling problems with the cruise control etc., but thats for another post. Thanks once again!
(I'll duplicate this message in the other post which discussed my VC problem too.) |
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