| Author |
Message |
    
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 07:13 pm: | 
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I am doing an off-road high adventure program at Raven Knob. It is a Boy Scout camp located about an hour northwest of Winston Salem, North Carolina. The name is RKORES; Which stands for Raven Knob Off-Road Expedition School. I need an assistant who is willing to work the better part of 9 weeks during the summer, starting June 1, and going until early August. If a week or two needs to be taken off that can be arrainged. A Scouting background would be nice, but not totally necessary. There will be time off on the weekends, and one night off a week to leave camp. All food and bedding is provided. I am looking for some one between 16-24 with good driving skills and a working knowledge of their vehicle. Just post back here or send me an e-mail if you are interested or have any questions.
Thanks,
Will Bobbitt
Trekboyy5@aol.com |
John Moore (Jmoore)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 07:45 pm: |
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Will,
I wish I could help you! I spent two summers at Bert Adams Scout camp in Covington, GA, teaching wildeness survival and scoutcraft (knots,lashing, tower building, etc.) Two of the best summers ever. I did that when I was 14 and 15. I also earned my Eagle.
For better or worse, I'm now 35, married, have two kids, mortgage, all those good things, and can't take 9 weeks off from work!
I hope someday my boys will get into Scouting.
I'm envious, Enjoy your summer!
-John |
Read (Read)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 08:22 pm: |
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Will,
I too wish I could help it sounds like an interesting program. I’m an eagle scout and have been an ASM for a troop here in Los Angeles for the last 10 yrs. Also been a Lodge Chief for Malibu lodge and Section Chief for W4A. The program you’re running is it one that you came up with? I would love to see a program outline or something. Maybe it’s something that could be implemented at one of our council camps or my troop. If this is the first summer it’s being run I would like to hear how it went if you remember.
Nice the scocks in your picture, way to rep. on the down low
Good luck,
Read Kerlin |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 08:28 pm: |
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sounds like fun, have you ever done this before? |
Will Roeder (Will_Roeder)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 08:57 pm: |
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Will,
I cant do the whole summer, but i could come up there for just one week or something...and as you know....I am an Eagle scout. |
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 07:23 am: |
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Everybody,
This is the second summer for RKORES. Last year was a success so I am doing it again. I did come up with the idea, and I have a full lesson plan, along with an off-road instructional guide. The National Venturing Director is interested in the program, and there is a good chance that it could be promoted nationaly.
I really need someone who can come help for most of the summer though. Finding some one that actually knows about four wheel drives is really hard. Will, you are welcome any time.
Thanks,
Will Bobbitt
Trekboyy5@aol.com
Thanks,
Will |
Ramsay (3toedsloth)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 07:39 am: |
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Will,
I'm an eagle scout and it just so happens I'm not sure what I'm going to do this summer. Send me an email with some more details (ie. curriculum, materials). I worked at Camp Durant in Carthage for a summer but I've always liked Raven Knob better. Thanks.
JR |
TPH (Snowman)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 07:41 am: |
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Will B.-
That's a really unique idea. Could you post a bit of the lesson plan or give us an idea of the goals of the program? Your offer is certainly a great opportunity for someone. I am in the same boat as John. Ah, to be 20 again.......
S- |
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 07:57 am: |
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I am in school at the moment, but I will try and post more details once I get home.
Will |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 09:03 am: |
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John, I too spent some summers at Camp Bert Adams. I am 31 and earned my eagle at 15. Maybe we crossed paths there...................
I also spent some time at Camp Rainey Mountain. Actually that is where we went most of the time.
I grew up in South GA.
gp |
John Moore (Jmoore)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 10:22 am: |
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Greg,
Small world, I just pulled out my Eagle Court of Honor book and see that I was there 82-83. I grew up in Riverdale, GA, just south of the Atlanta Airport. After I moved out, my parents lived in Statesboro, GA. My Dad worked at GA Southern Univ.
I don't know Camp Rainey Mountain, But my Troop, 263, camped all over the Southeast. Some of my favorites were camping on the Apalachian trail or spending the night on the USS Yorktown in Charlestown, SC.
-John |
Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 10:27 am: |
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I camp alot spend alot of time outdoors. have worked at summer camps, I was in Boy Scouts but got tired of it. I would be happy to help out but I gotta go to summer school to get a few math credits. Maybe next summer. |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 11:37 am: |
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John,
I was in troop 875 from Fitzgerald, GA. I was talking my Dad a while ago, who was involved with scouting too, and he said we only went to Bert Adams once, and to Rainey Mountain the rest of the time. Rainey Mountain is near Clayton, GA.
Were you in OA? I made brotherhood, but didn't stay in scouts long enough to get Vigil. I did manage a gold palm on my eagle ribbon. |
John Moore (Jmoore)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 12:27 pm: |
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(Will - sorry to steal your thread!)
Greg,
I was in the OA, but not for long. Didn't get a palm. By the time I hit 16, got a car (MG of course!), found girls, beer, starting playing in a band, etc. my Scouting Days were over!
I did work for a while for the the Council when I lived in Charlotte, NC and briefly in Chesapeake, VA.
As I said before, I hope to get back in my boys, now 3 & 5 are old enough. I know it will be my turn to give back to Scouting soon. Still enjoy camping, we've been taking our boys since they were a few months old.
Hate to bring this up, but a really hate the bashing the BSA has gotten the last few years.
-John |
Sus (Susannah)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 12:40 pm: |
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Ramsay-
You go to HSC? I work for RMWC....in Lynchburg. Bet you know some girls from here..... |
Greg French (Gregfrench)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 01:43 pm: |
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Will...
I would love to do it. I am a former boy scout (made it to Life) and love camping. I am a teacher, so I have summers off, and get along well with kids.
I do, however, pull my 2 weeks of active duty in the summer (I am in the Reserves) and teach at the local college, but would be interested in pulling a week or two if you can break it up that way. Does it pay anything?
BTW- I am 33.
Let me know |
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 01:49 pm: |
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Here is the content of the RKORES "Book":
Chapter 1 Four wheel Drive Systems
Part-Time
Part-time four-wheel drive is the most basic 4WD system. The driver selects when the vehicle is in two-wheel or four-wheel drive, and manually engages or disengages the 4WD system. This is basically fine, as long as you don't engage the system on pavement unless it's very, very slippery.
Full-Time
Full-time four-wheel drive is becoming more common, though the name is slightly misleading. In this case, "full-time" usually means always available, not always on. In fact, most full-time 4WD systems will operate in two-wheel drive mode most of the time - especially in summer and on dry roads.
All-Wheel
A system becoming increasingly popular in performance cars and some sport utilities is All- Wheel Drive. Though not intended for arduous off-road work, All-Wheel Drive systems expand on-road performance while increasing safety, as well as allowing travel on poorly maintained roads and tracks.
Permanent
Full-time 4WD and Permanent 4WD are similar, but Permanent 4WD has no two-wheel drive mode. Therefore, you never have to decide when the conditions are right for 4WD because the vehicle is always in 4WD mode. You also never have to guess whether or not the vehicle has decided to go into 4WD mode itself.
Chapter 2 Four Wheel Drive Terms
-Altimeters- Tell what angle the vehicle is at.
-Anti-Roll Bars- U-shaped tubular steel that is designed to limit body roll. The Bottom of the U is attached to the vehicle frame, and the ends are bolted to the axles. They are good on road, but bad Off-Road because they limit axle articulation.
-Approach angle- How far the front of the vehicle sticks out from the front of the tire. The shorter the front of the vehicle, the better approach angle you have.
-Axle articulation- How far the wheels will travel up or down before one of them loses traction.
-Bow wave- The build up of water in the front of the vehicle when wading. Best achieved at slower speeds.
-Cadence braking- Using brakes to mimic an ABS system by giving the brake short repeated jabs. This is done to prevent the brakes from locking up.
-Cross-axled- When to wheels on opposites sides and at opposites ends of the vehicle leave the ground due to lack of articulation. This means you are stuck unless you have lockers or traction control.
-Corrugations- Roads that are like a washboard due to spring recoil.
-Deflector cables- Steel wires from the brush guard to the roof rack. Used to deflect over hanging foliage and to keep visibility clear.
-Departure angle- The distance from the lowest point of the bumper to the rear tires.
-Differential lock- a device to lock the differential. It gives equal power to each wheel, so that one wheel on an axle doesn’t get all the power and the other gets none.
-Engine braking- When going down a steep hill selecting a low gear and letting your foot of any peddles.
-Flotation tires- Wide tires that spread the load while going over soft ground.
-Ground anchor- something that is put in the ground to be used as a point to attach a winch cable.
-Ground Clearance- The distance between the lowest point of the underbody and the ground.
-Plasma ropes- Substitute for steel cable on winches. It is stronger, safer, and easier to use than standard steel cable.
-Ramp break over angle- Angle between the front and rear tires and the lowest point in between. The shorter the vehicle the better break over angle.
-Sand ladders- Aluminum or plastic ladders used as traction aids in mud or sand.
-Snatch block- A pulley that opens so that rope can be inserted with out being threaded from the end. It doubles the mechanical advantage, thus an 8,000-pound winch can become a 16,000-pound winch.
Chapter 3 Different Driving Conditions
Dirt Roads
Dirt roads only require two-wheel drive, or four-wheel high if the vehicle is full-time or permanent four-wheel drive. Tires should be at the correct pressure and not aired down any. Be careful of driving fast because the vehicle can easily go out of control. Also keep a safe distance between other vehicles you are traveling with because braking takes longer, and stones can be thrown up, thus cracking your windshield.
Corrugations (Washboard)
Corrugations are parallel ridges and troughs across a dirt road. These are caused by the return rates of springs from heavy traffic. These roads should be traveled at slow speeds because it is like riding on an air hammer if you don’t.
Ruts and Gullies
On narrow roads ruts along the direction of the route become common after vehicles have gone through it when the ground is soft. If the road is wide enough to straddle the ruts do so, if not make sure nothing on your vehicle will drag. If neither of these things work you can fill the ruts in with rocks, or brush. When going through, be in low range, second gear. Also have some one in front of you guiding you through because you won’t be able to see what is under you, and you won’t be able to steer. After going through, inspect the underside of the vehicle and make sure nothing caught.
Ridges and Ditches
Ridges and ditches should be crossed and an angle as to prevent the vehicle from high centering. If it is a large ridge or ditch inspect it first to make sure nothing will drag when going across. If all else fails the ridge can be dug down, and/or the ditch can be filled rocks, brush, etc.
Slopes
Inspect the slope for rocks, holes, and other obstructions before you drive it. Make sure that the top of the vehicle is not loaded heavily and lash down all loads inside the vehicle. Have some one guide you across if necessary. If you do feel the vehicle start to overturn turn down the hill quickly and blip the gas peddle. Also never have anyone on the outside of the vehicle on the down hill side.
Up Hills
Before ascending a hill, make sure you know what is on the other side once you get to the top. When going up use low range, second gear, do not change gears while going up because that can kill your momentum. If you start to loose grip turn the steering wheel quarter turns rapidly to help regain traction. Admit defeat early and be prepared to put it in reverse. When coming down, use engine braking and if that is not enough use cadence braking to prevent lock up and to prevent the vehicle from sliding side ways.
Down Hills
When going down hill you should be in low range first if you are in an automatic, if you are in a manual you should be in low range first or second depending on how low the vehicle is geared. Engine braking is essential when going down hills, but if you feel the rear end start to slide turn the steering wheel the direction it is sliding and blip the gas. If the angle is to bad to drive, use a winch to control your decent.
Sand
Sand is best to be driven on early in the morning or after rain because the sand becomes thicker because of the moisture, thus better traction. The vehicle should be as light as possible, and should be running a street tire, a light all-terrain tire, or if you intend on being out in the sand for long amounts of time fit special sand tires that will provide good floatation. All of these should be aired down to about 75% of the recommended pressure, but not driven over 30 MPH. You should also run high range 3rd or 4th gear will good momentum, but if you are on dunes be sure you know what is on the other side.
Mud
The key to driving mud is momentum, this doesn’t mean flying through it, but having a steady speed. Go in high range 2nd or 3rd gear for optimal traction. As far as tires go, All-Terrains do not do very good and clog up easily, Mud-Terrain tires do well it most cases, and if the vehicle is for off-road use only, tractor tires can be fitted for maximum traction. If the mud is deep check to see that nothing is in the way such as a tree stump, a big rock, or anything else. Also follow the same rut rules as states above if you get into muddy ruts. If you experience bad wheel spin and start to loose momentum, swing the steering wheel quarter turns rapidly. As with everything else, admit defeat early because all you will do is dig yourself in deeper by spinning.
Snow and Ice
When driving on snow go in the highest gears possible. If you sense that you are sliding let off the gas and if driving a manual push the clutch in. If you have to brake, only cadence brake, because if you lock your wheels up you will slide out of control. When putting on snow chains, put them on all four wheels, if you only put them on two it can cause bad transmission wind up. Also, avoid other tracks if possible, because compacted snow can turn into ice.
Water
When wading through water there are many things that need to be checked. If you are going through axle deep water the axle breathers are the most important things to check. Over that height there needs to be a transmission plug, and all electronics need to be made waterproof. Diesel engines have the upper hand on gas engines because they have very few electronics to go wrong, thus it is easier to wade. If you wade over the bumper height the engine fan should be disconnected as to prevent water from being sprayed all over the engine. Also the air intake of the vehicle needs to be noted, if needed a snorkel can be fitted. When crossing you should be in low range in a low gear as to keep the engine revolutions high, also if you are driving a manual, don’t change gears or stall out because water can go into the engine from the tailpipe. In the front you should have a good bow wave, not to slow, not to fast.
Chapter 4 Becoming Unstuck
Sand
When traveling on sand alone you should have four sand ladders, and if you are traveling in a convoy each vehicle should have two ladders. At first dig all the sand out from underneath the vehicle, except for the tires off-course, and place the sand ladder at the front of each tire. Do not tie the ladders on the back of the vehicle because the will get you stuck again, but mark were the ladders are with an upright shovel. If you have a winch and all else fails you can bury your spare tire and attach the winch cable to it.
Ruts
When stuck in ruts a High Lift can be used to jack up the vehicle and place rocks, brush and other things under the tires.
Mud
First of all if you have a winch use it. If not get another vehicle to pull you out with a towrope. If none of these work, dig out all the obstructing mud and use a High Lift and jack up each end, and place traction aids under the wheels.
Chapter 5 Winching
Winching can be very dangerous, be careful at all times!!!
-When selecting a winch make sure that it is at least rated 1,000 pounds over your total vehicle weight.
-Never wind the winch cable all the way out, let it at least have 4 wraps around the drum.
-Always wear gloves when handling the winch cable if it is steel to prevent steel chards from going into your hands.
-When winching all ways have a blanket on the winch cable to slow it down if the cable breaks
-Never step over a winch cable while it is under load unless you want to talk like Mickey Mouse the rest of your life.
Chapter 6 Tires
Sizing and Gearing
When fitting larger tires on a vehicle many things need to be taken into consideration. One of the most important things is gearing in the differential and in the transfer box. Because the tires are bigger it takes more engine power to get them going, thus stressing the drive train more. One advantage is that once you get good momentum it is less RPM’s for the engine, thus less work on it, so in moderation it can be a trade off. Also with bigger tires making sure that when you articulate that they do not rub inside the fender well any. This can be solved by a suspension lift, a body lift, and/or extended bump stops.
All- Terrains
All-Terrains are a “jack of all trades”. They do well on paved roads, good on dirt roads, okay on sand, and okay in mud. For most people these are the best all around tires to have.
Mud-Terrain
Mud-Terrains are just what their name implies. They are okay on road, but have the tendency to be noisy and wear down fast. In mud they are excellent and the treads clean out easily. In sand they are not good at all, and you will become stuck in a matter of seconds, because they are made to dig, not to float. Tread patterns very from a BFG MT style tire to an Interco Supper Swamper style, with the latter performing better off-road, but wearing down considerably faster, and being a fair amount more noisy.
Self Cleaning Tires
Self-cleaning tires, or tractor tires perform only in the mud and can only be driven off-road. These are the best if all you are going to do is go through deep mud with the vehicle.
Chapter 7 Vehicle Lifts
Why a lift?
There are a few reasons to put a lift on your vehicle, all depending why you need one. Most people reason is to clear room to fit larger tires, increase articulation and/or increase payload capacity.
Suspension Lift
Suspension lifts vary for every vehicle, but in most cases they increase the payload capacity, increase articulation and clear room for larger tires. When buying a suspension kit it usually comes with new springs, new shocks, some new bushings, and if needed transmission lowering kit, extended brake lines, and some new steering components. The general rule for a lift is 3 inches, anything over that will make cause for additional things to be changed and they can be very costly, such as new drive shafts.
Body lift
A body lift increases the space between the body tub of the vehicle and the frame. They are made to be able to fit larger tires, and provide no suspension advantages. Body lifts should not exceed 2 inches or the body will sway back and forth. They offset the bumpers, and some radiator and steering adjustments will have to be made.
Putting a Cheap and Easy Lift On
-Shackle lift-If a vehicle has shackles on it; longer shackles can be fitted to give lift. This method is cheap and easy. It doesn’t provide any suspension advantages, but larger tires can be fitted.
-IFS lift-If an IFS suspension is fitted with torsion bars; they can be tightened thus raising the vehicle up. This provides no suspension advantages; it makes the ride rougher and decreases articulation. The reason to do a lift like this is to be able to fit larger tires.
-Spring spacers- If a vehicle has coil springs, spacers can be fitted to be able to fit larger tires. This has no disadvantages to it.
Must Have Things to Carey With You
-2 tow straps
-2 D-Shackles
-Front and rear attachment for straps
-A High-Lift Jack
-A shovel, usually short handled
-Choker chains to use High Lift as a winch
-A winch if it is in the budget and/or needed
-A tree saver for winching
-A first aid kit
-A flashlight
-Axe
-Chain saw if needed
-A full set of metric and/or standard socket wrenches, deep well and normal length.
-A full set of metric and/or standard wrenches.
-A variety of Phillips and strait screwdrivers.
-WD-40 and Liquid Wrench.
-Spare fuses.
-Spare tire(s).
-A good jack and all things to change a tire.
-A selection of nuts and bolts
-All fluids, including engine oil, transmission fluid, anti-freeze, and power steering fluid if fitted.
-Duct tape
-Many other things can be taken, but these are the basics for general off-roading.
The Ideas expressed in these pages are my ideas and I will not be held liable if you are hurt doing these things.
Here is the "Plan of Action":
Plan of action
Monday:
1. Discuss Four Wheel Drives in general
-Different transfer cases
-Gearing and drive train
2. Mechanic work
-Check brake fluid
-Power Steering fluid
-Windscreen washer fluid
-Transmission Fluid
-Check Battery Fluid
-Change and explain fuses
-Review maintenance charts
3. Off Road
-Explain winching principals and rules
-Use a winch
-Use a High Lift Jack
-Digging out
-Off Road lighting
Tuesday:
1. Talk about the Tread Lightly Program
-Driving carefully
-Repair to roads
2. Mechanic work
-Check Belts and Hoses
-Check all lighting
-Check exhaust system
-Check and explain tires
-Go over drive train and Transmissions
-Changing tires on and Off Road
3. Off Road
-Tires
-Lockers
-Vehicle lifts
-Off Road Recovery with a High Lift Jack
Wednesday
1. Talk about Different conditions for Off Road Driving
-Mud
-Sand
2. Mechanic Work
-Explain engine oil
-Change oil
-Disposal of oil
-Go over and flush coolant system
3. Off Road
-Accessories, good ones and bad ones
-Snorkels
-Roof Racks
-Foliage wires
-Bull bars and brush guards
-Mud flaps
Thursday
1. Expeditions and why people do it
-Early expeditions
-Off Road expeditions
2. Mechanic work
-Work with brakes
-Change fuel and air filters
-Do welding
3. Off Road
-How to plan an expedition
-Where and where not to go
-What to bring and how to pack
-Food preparation
-Sleeping arraignments
-Plan out an expedition
-Pack vehicle for overnighter
Overnighter:
1. Go out to back woods of camp
-Set up camp
-Cook dinner
2. Orienteering
-Using a compass
-Using a GPS
-Other methods
-Night time orienteering event (timed for special task)
Friday
1. Starting the day
-Cook and eat breakfast
-Pack up tents
2. Bush mechanics
-Go over proper tools
-Tips and tricks
-Off-road welding
3. Special Task (teams will consist of two members)
-Day time orienteering
-Winch out a stuck vehicle with a winch and a High Lift Jack
-Dig out a stuck vehicle and use mud ladders
-Spare tire change (spare must be brought across a river)
-Winner will be announced at Camp Fire
4. Final test
-Safe Driving and Tread Lightly
-Car mechanics
-Off Road Recovering and safety
5. Come back into camp and clean vehicle
-Wash and wax
-Vacuum out
Thanks for the intrest!
Will |
Read (Read)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 03:03 pm: |
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Thanks for the outline Will. Can't wait to show this to our Venturing Crew Adv.
Read |
TPH (Snowman)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 03:08 pm: |
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Will-
Very concise, I am impressed. It certainly beats making bird houses out of milk cartons like when I was in Scouts!
S- |
muskyman
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 03:15 pm: |
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very complete
I wish I was back in the days of summers off. after my first year of college I worked at Camp menomonee in eagle river wisconsin teaching water skiing,fishing and as it turned out fixing every broken thing in camp. it was a awsome fun summer teaching kids to ski and barefooting, heading to the "chatter box" for pizza and beer at night and romancing the hot babe instructors from the girls camp one lake down the chain.
will, enjoy it these summers dont last forever |
TPH (Snowman)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 03:20 pm: |
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Spoken like a true grown-up, sucks doesn't it?
S- |
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 03:44 pm: |
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Thanks guys.....I have an Idea about summers not lasting forever...I see it fairly reguarly with staff members who have been working for a long time, and for some reason they can't anymore. It's actually kinda depressing. This will be my 6th summer on staff there at Raven Knob, and I have spent every summer there since I was three. So the place is a second home.
Will |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 07:24 pm: |
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Wow very complete itenerary there Will. Sounds like fun, I'm sure the kids enjoy it. Now excuse my ignorance but when I was going to scout camp we went to classes to help us complete merit badge requirements, do they have a new offroading merit badge or is this just something extra you guys are doing? |
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 08:04 pm: |
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Carter,
Yeah, I forgot to mention, the guys get Auto Mechanics merit badge out of it.
Will |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 08:09 pm: |
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can i be the troop leader?
rd |
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 09:10 pm: |
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Yeah, as long as you aren't a felon/child molestor, and you aren't gay. Please don't let this get turned into another gay debate.
Will |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 10:00 pm: |
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ROFL Will...
if it wasn't from June 1, my kid could do it. He's got his DL, and a range rover.
peter |
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 10:05 pm: |
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When can he start? He could go from June 14th if he had to. Name? E-mail adress?
Thanks,
Will Bobbitt |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 10:28 pm: |
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Auto Mechanics, is that a new one??? |
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 10:47 pm: |
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Nope, not really, it has been around for a while.
Will |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 10:54 pm: |
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I saw a list of a bunch of disbanded merit badges once, it was pretty cool none of them really stick out in my head but there were definitly some DATED ones. Maybe I'll try to dig it up if I get time. |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 11:36 am: |
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None of the above will...
i'm just an unemployed priest. |
Will Bobbitt (Rkores)
| | Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 11:54 am: |
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Hahaha....So funny Rob. I am talking to a few people right now about doing RKORES, but it's hard to find anybody that can committ to 6-9 weeks in the summer. I got one guy that's supposed to let me know with in a few days...but if he can't, anybody else out there????
Will |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 06:11 pm: |
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Will, you can email him directly.
Rob, are you sort of a universal priest, California-style?
peter |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 06:15 pm: |
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heaven's gate survivor
rd |
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