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Author Message   Steve (Steve2) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 02:35 pm:    hey all short on benjamins but long on amex rewards... they (amex) have a mongoose inferno mens mountain bike. anyone know anything about these? i haven't biked and about 2 million years - just wanted something to go blast out on the trails with. any input on a bike under $500 would be great. thanks steve   Chris Marcel (Gumarcel) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 02:42 pm:    I had a trek 4500, but it was stolen. It was a great bike for trails and was good for pavement riding. I paid about 350 for it, but i got my friends discount because she worked at the bike shop. I now have the trek 6700 it is soo much better then the 4500, however it was about 750. I have heard that mongoose bikes are ok. You might want to look at gary fisher, great great bikes also. Chris   Andrew Clarke (Aclarke) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 03:27 pm:    Used mountain bikes are also often a good buy if you're short on $$ but want a good bike. If you get one with a good frame, you can always upgrade the components as they break. www.mtbr.com is a good place to go, as is ebay I guess.   Sean Hanagan (Seanh) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 03:48 pm:    Mongoose is now a department store brand for the most part. Their place in the cycling world is dwindling rapidly. If it's free, go for it. If it's not I would spend my cash elsewhere. Bikes at or under $500 are fine for the bike path. If you spend any real time off road you will wear it out quickly. The real difference between a $500 dollar bike and a $3500 dollar bike is longevity. The components on the $3500 bike will outlast the ones on the $500 bike. Think of it this way component groups have a finite life with XTR and Dura ace possesing the longest life(number of shifts, etc....)Most bike companies have some nice quality trail worthy bikes at the $700 level. With discounts you could score one in the $500's. Giant has always been a strong price point bike. Trek is now a super conglomerate that has swallowed up many-o-company including Fisher. There are deals to be had so good luck!   TPH (Snowman) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 04:34 pm:    I agree with Sean. Please do not buy the Mongoose. IMHO Giant or Raleigh is the way to go for under $500.00 Both give you a decent frame but nice components for the dollar. Look at these two. At that price level you will have many to choose from. Often it will be the one that fits better or has a specific shifter you like. I think it's great you are getting back into cycling, have fun! Geezum I like bikes, I could talk about them all day. S- Dean Ti XTR/XT SRAM 9.0 SL W/"Woody" RD Conti's F&R RaceFace Cranks....   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 04:39 pm:    Save your money man. wait and get something thats good. S-works XTR Everything SPinergy wheels Chris King Manitou Mars GT XTR: Shifters Brakes Derailers Cook Bros Cranks Race Face Rings King Headset Judy XC   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 05:52 pm:    STEP AWAY FROM THE POS MONGOOSE! Paul Cannondale Scapel   Al Cruz (Alc) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 06:22 pm:    Hey Steve, Yeah Mongoose went out of favor with the local shops when they started selling to Costco and other big discount stores. They've been trying to make a comeback, but it doesn't look like it's working. Not sure if I'd agree that they're shitty, some of the bikes I've seen had some good components on them. And I agree with Andrew, go to Mountain Bike Review and check out the classified section. You'll find a lot of good used bikes at your price point. Check the recycler too! a buddy of mine bought a nice GT idrive with XTR components for a little over what you plan on spending. Let me know if you ever wanna go ride, there's some nice trails where you are at. Hey on a side note, did you ever get your rack? Al 01 SD7 Mountain Cycle San Andreas   Al Cruz (Alc) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 06:35 pm:    But then again, if it's free...well heck as long as you ride then that's all that matters....just ride! He..he..he.. Here's what I have on my baby.. Full XTR, except XT disk brakes King head set King hubs w/Sun wheels DS1-XC Selle Italia Flite seat Kore Stem and Seat post Ouri grips RockShox Pyslo Hutchinson Python Air Lites Easton EC90 SL Carbon Rise Bar Ah what else...   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 08:23 pm:    how you like those King hubs I am thinking those and rhyno lites for my GT <--beater bike. As far as buying bike I would look to Specilized Klein and Kona.   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 08:24 pm:    o yeah did I mention that ODI lock on grips are the best thing I have done for my bike. Kinda like beadlocks for your handle bar grips.   TPH (Snowman) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 08:31 pm:    Kona also does a nice steel frame at about 500-600. However they tend to have long toptubes which does not always fit many body types. Older Klein's were very sweet, I had a Pulse MTB and a Quantum road.   Steel is Reel Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 08:34 pm:    Steel is BETTER than aluminum.   Jack (Jack) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 08:39 pm:    Steve, Whatever you do, at any budget - buy your bike from a local bike shop. They should size you to the frame, make sure it's assembled properly, and provide (usually) a free tune up and adjustment. They can usually hook you up on some local rides, and with other bikers. Mail order and big box stores are great for some things, but not bikes. I could rant forever about XTR vs XT, Gary Fisher vs Cannondale, etc., but in the end, it's all about riding your bike. A local shop will help keep you doing just that! -Jack   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 08:42 pm:    Phil, I used to be a big fan of Klein Bikes. But since they moved production from Chehalis, Wa to the umbrella of Trek in Waterloo, WI; their customer service, individuality, and quality has gone to shit. I really like Specialized M series bikes. I cracked an M2 Allez Road bike with 4000 miles on it and 9 days later, I had a new one. I had to pay for shipping and nothing else. Hell, I busted up a Specialized helmet in a bad accident and they sent me a new one for free. Damn thing saved my life. Just remember.....Steel is real and Aluminum will make you steril. But then again, I ride a scapel and thing has aluminum alloy front end, and a weird ass mixture of composite and plastic on the back end. Snow, you were right about those Magura Disk Brakes. I clamped down on those levers in a trail and almost went airborne. Man, if you want to stop, Louise can make it happen for you.   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 10:28 pm:    yah my buddy broke the Adroit I think.. well Kleins top of line hardtail and they sent him a new one within a few weeks. I have an S-works right now I think its due for some breakage soon. the next bike I get will hopefully be a custom steel frame.   John Davies Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 11:08 am:    There is a lot of good info posted here, but I am surprised that no one mentioned buying an older model "new" bike at a local bike shop. Ask to see any of "last year's" bikes that the shop has left in stock. You may find a nice bike that is almost identical to this year's at up to 25% savings. I bought a Cannondale F900 and saved $300 by buying the previous year's bike. Also, check the Supergo site - there are good deals to be had here. But beware that many are shipped in the box as the dealer receives them, and they require professional quality assembly. http://www.supergo.com/itemlist.asp?id=7559&subid=7&company=~ALL~&vt=1   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 11:20 am:    John is absolutley correct. I bought a 2002 Scapel 2 days before Xmas and the dealer knocked off a $1000. So I only paid $1700 for the bike!   Sean Hanagan (Seanh) Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 03:53 pm:    John, I did say that in my post. Deals on last years stuff are everywhere. Try your best to support your local bike shop as long as they are competative. If you buy a bike from them they will throw in service as well where companies like Supergo won't. In the price range your looking in PLEASE don't buy a full suspension rig you will be sorry. Kona and Jamis make nice price point steel frames with a good smatering of quality stuff. You can never go wrong with high quality steel! Steel is Real!!! Aluminum is for PBR cans   andythoma Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 04:38 pm:    Buy a bike that suits your riding style and conditions. I think some of your suggestions you got for bikes might be a little out of your price range. I'd sugggest try your local bike shop. Nows a good time to get a deal on last years leftovers. Also a bike shop can support you in the event of a warrenty. A $500 budget will get you a beginner MTB. That may work out fine for you now. If you spend $700 you'll get into a intermediate level bike. Ask yourself, where will I be in a year or two for riding. I you really get into it you'll end up getting a new bike either way a few years to up grade. Paul- Kleins are still made in washington. Trek made some of the real cheap pulses for while, but now those are discontinued and all kleins still come from washington. Also anyone ride in Utah? I'm always looking for riding buddies road or mtn. Andy slc, ut Bontrager race lite(real steel baby) XTR w/sid sl Mountain Cycle San Andreas DH XT,hayes hydrualics, JR-T sporting about 6" travel front and 5" rear Klein Quantum Race Dura-ace Trek XO-1 for getting my ass kicked on cyclocross courses.   andythoma Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 04:40 pm:    also bikes are like rovers, you can never just have one and you'll always be screwing around fixing them or improving them. Andy   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 04:55 pm:    i miss my san andreas....goddamn thieves...   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 04:59 pm:    P.S. there were a few nice Cannondales on ebay when I checked yesterday - F300, Killer V, and a cad3 frameset. Anyone have any frames they want to get rid of (I build up my own bikes)?   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 05:09 pm:    That's interesting Andy, When I was home last, the big news was that Klein was leaving Chehalis. Since then, I emailed them about a rear drop out and the customer support was crap!   Jack (Jack) Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 05:29 pm:    Klein is made in Waterloo, WI in the big-T factory. The F/S '03s Kleins will all be on the Maverick design (Paul Turner's full suspension design). A lot of other manufacturer's high-end aluminum and composite frames are made in that factory too - and I'm not talking about the Trek owned brands. Paul, let me know what dropout you are looking for and I can probably help, or get you in touch with someone who can. -Jack   andythoma Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 05:34 pm:    Paul Well I just looked at the web site and I could be wrong now. I got my wife an Adept Race last year and it was still a Washington made bike. But the web site shows they only have three different frames now. The attitude is the only hardtail mtb left for sale. Also no more adept, just some strange looking thing. I got the last santa cruz made bontrager. I guess thes little companys can't hold on in this economy, they need to be part of a a large company to stay afloat. In the process they lose there identity and uniqueness. Sounds a lot like Land Rover huh? Now you guys are making think I don't need those lockers,gears and new tires this summer. I should spend my money on that Serotta Legend Ti ST that I have been thinking about. But I can't get rid of the klein now that it could be from a dieing breed. Hopefully my wife can fit my Klein so I have an excuse to get a Serotta. Or I stop all this riding and drive my truck more... Blue That sucks, those bastards! I have a trek 8000, bonded alu. in 19.5" if your interested in a beater, also other parts I could get rid of cheap if your interested, I have pretty much anything you might need. Andy   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 06:01 pm:    Well Jack, After Klein Dropped the Ball, a local bike shop drilled out the threads and installed an oversized helicoil. That worked for about 100 miles, then I redrilled and installed a derailleur saver. That Model Mantra did not have replaceable dropouts so I gave the bike away to someone in the Family and now ride the Scapel. But Thanks for the offer. It's amazing how mountain bikes have advanced through the years. Since '93 I have ridden: Raleigh Hard tail Cannondale M1000 Cannondale F700 (3 different bikes) Trek Y22 (raced this bike at 24 hours of Canaan) Klein Mantra Cannondale Scapel (current ride)   Al Cruz (Alc) Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 06:03 pm:    Andy and Blue, Glad to hear there a few San Andreas riders in the Rover community. Yeah Blue sorry about your loss, nothin worse than stealing someones ride! Al   Jack (Jack) Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 06:15 pm:    Paul, Did you mean replaceable derailleur hanger rather than dropout? I owned a Mantra at one point - I'll bet your Scapel doesn't want to send you OTB like the Mantra wanted to. That design was prone to brake jacking - there was a learning curve involved in riding that bike at speed. Jack   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 07:29 pm:    I bought that Cannondale Delta V used at a shop in Moab and built it up real nice, but it was really too big for me (extra large frame). So I built that San Andreas exactly the way I wanted my ultimate bike. Supertight, superlight (lots of Ti) & I only raced it one season before someone ripped it, along with my wife's brand new Jamis Dakaar. Andy, what's your trek 8000 all about? I've been out of the bike world since mine were stolen May 1999. If I get a frame & a rear rim, I should pretty much be able to build one up if I dig deep in my junk boxes...   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 07:56 pm:    Hey Jack, The part I am talking about is on the rear triangle where the rear derailleur is bolts to. Unlike Specialized and Cdale, my Mantra had a helicoil installed straight into the Aluminum of the rear triangles structure. I'm sorry my nomenclature is off..... There is this place called Wintergreen on the Maryland / PA border that we used to ride in the '90's. For $20 you could ride the lift up to the top and chose from different trails for pure downhill fun. Anyway, that Y-22 was like an old caddy. One day I hit 42mph on the main fire road, and the suspension felt just like an old car cruising down the highway. If I tried that same fire road with the Mantra, I think I would have needed to consult Christ first! I bought Mantra and WOW, for a DS bike, that thing could climb fast and act agile in the corners. But, with agility came instability and I was OTB more than once. I am still geting used to the Scapel. I never had a soft-tail that you could lock out the front and rear shocks from the handle bar mounted controls and disk brakes have made me completely forget about the amazing invention called 'v-brakes.' I have never seen an 'Andreas bike outside of a magazine. The one in the picture above Blue looks like one bad ass bike.   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 08:10 pm:    How did that Mountain Cycle climb I thought they were DH oriented? I know a guy that had one he rode it off a building and broke the rear drop-outs. I am partial to Kona and Specialized   Jack (Jack) Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 09:04 pm:    Paul, Some early bikes had a derailleur hanger welded to the rear triangle, that was not replaceable. Not a good idea for a mountain bike. All today have an aluminum hanger that breaks, or bends before something bad happens. Although you can still fry a wheel or a rear derailleur if it bends into the drive train. I grew up in Lynchburg, VA just down the road from Wintergreen ski area in Nelson County, VA if that’s what you are talking about. I have driven many an intoxicated mile; I’m ashamed to say from Lynchburg to Wintergreen to do stupid guy stuff, in my 1967 MGB, or my friends ’73 Beetle. My family still lives there, I’m out west now and in the bike business for a few months out of the year, and the ski business when the snow is here, which is now. I’m pretty much obsessed with bikes, and this is the perfect place to be that way. We’re surrounded by almost one million acres of Nat. Forest, 600 miles of mapped mountain bike trails, 2000 more unmapped, and the ski area 2 miles away has 50 miles of trails, and a lift service. Our business is connected to a lodge; so anyone who wants to come out to CO this summer and ride let me know. Disc brakes are great, but it is so dry here, and I’m more into cross-country racing than downhill that I didn’t want the extra weight of the disc hubs and hardware – but discs are where the industry as a whole is heading, along with full suspension. Jack   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 11:49 am:    I raced cross-country (desert) and downhill. It climbed like a full-suspension bike Actually it wasn't bad. Front suspension lockout would've been nice, but the rear didn't bob much at all. I topped 50mph screamin down from Crown King, AZ on the fire roads - still handled like a sports car (although washboards are difficult @ speed). Damn fine bike. Cracked the main frame @ one of the pivot points, and I had just bought a new mainframe, new seat sub-frame, and new rear shock when it was ripped. Basically a whole new bike - just the swingarm was original. I'll dig up some more pics.   andythoma Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 02:32 pm:    I love my Mountain Cycle. I built it for a western bike. I grew up in Pa and raced pa, ny, md ,etc. As Blue said, it climbs like a full suspension. Out here in utah f/s is the way to go on these long mountain descents and playing in Moab or Gooseberry Mesa. If I want a fast climbing bike I just grab my bontrager. I have the longer travel beefier version of the San Andreas, I try to find a picture, but it looks just like Blues. Using 8" front disk and 6" rear disk and sporting 180mm front travel and 150mm rear, the bike weights about 28lbs and is solid as a rock on downhills and bumps. Just don't ask me to scream up climbs, of course I don't race any more and I'm slow on up hills on my bike or in my rover. Jack- I agree 100% on what you say about western riding, I can't even fathom the amount of great trails availible to ride outside of my door. Access is the key. Where are you in Co? What do you do in the bike biz? Before I moved out to Utah I managed a bike shop for a while. Paul- I raced my first of 5 24hrs of Canaan on a Y-33, the bright yellow one, That bike was a caddy, to bad it sucked as a climber and I blew up the rear shock and rear pivots so many times I gave up on it and got rid of it. Still have fond memories of that bike though. Blue- Actually if you remember what a 99 trek aluminum bonded frame looked like you'd know what my frame looks like. Its an older bonded frame, I probably have some wheels too. I was going to build this bike to sell on ebay with all my spare parts laying around just make some room in my basement. Of course I started to plane this 3 years ago and now I have even more junk laying around. It is a 19.5" so the standover height is about 29"-30" I think. Andy   Sean Hanagan (Seanh) Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 02:42 pm:    Andy, Keith Bontrager is the man! I'm back on my custom steel(Cherry Cycles Cherry Bomb) after wasteing time on a Litespeed ans a S-Works FSR. Man is it good to be back. I'm not sure I understand the attraction to the San Andreas though. Have you guys spent any time on a modern 6x6? Intense, Kona and others have that 6 incher dialed. If I remember right the SA was a single pivot swingarm reminiscent of the sweet Trek 9800 that was voted one of the worst ridding bikes ever? But don't listen to me I'm a mid 30's steel hardtail retro grouch. Bring back 8 speed please!   Jack (Jack) Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 05:36 pm:    Andy, I'm here: http://www.skiwinterpark.com/winterpark/community_profile.html?nav=winter Although everything on the website now is geared to winter, the summers although short are awesome. I'm partner's in a ski shop/bike shop depending upon the season. WP Resort has a nice race series, June-August, the town is very bike friendly, you can go anywhere in town dressed like a bike geek and no one looks at you funny! Local accomodations are reasonable, and camping is available everywhere. Now though we have snow everywhere so riding is sketchy at best, but I still get out or ride the trainer. Jack   Rich Lee Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 12:24 am:    From the "older " generation. I have always been a fan of steel bikes, but then that was about all that was available when I was first riding and racing. I used to work part time and ride a lot with Tom Ritchey in the late 70's, building road bikes and riding them on local trails, Clement "Del Mondo" silk sew-ups, 42-22 low gears and all. I had his first production "Team Comp" bike in 1982 and was undefeated racing it in Michigan during my first year of Med school in 1984, even beat this hotshot kid from Owasso MI named Johnny Tomac (1991 world champion). The bike was amazingly agile, for its day, even with steel "bullmoose" bars and no Ti it weighed in at 24 lbs. The bike never had a suspension of any kind and was finally retired in 1997. As long as they don't rust, steel frames last and perform for an amazingly long time. Done right, they are strong, light very supple. They return all the enrgy you put into them, with none of the stiffness of aluminum (there is a reason they don't make springs out of aluminum) and for a lot less money than Ti or composite. Other than a Softride stem, I still ride a "rigid" bike on the trails of northern Calif (though not as much as I used to). No pivots to wear out, no shock seals to blow up, just get on and ride. Although I will now admit that shock forks are now light enough and reliable enough that I wouldn't turn one down. I learned to ride in a era where the rider was responsible for most of the handling and most of the full suspension bikes feel like motorless motorcycles to me. My favorite for local dirt trails is a Ritchey "Mount Cross", basically a flat-bar cyclo cross bike that weighs under 19 lbs, with 700c x 30mm tires/wheels that are 1lb lighter than almost anything in 26" (loosing 1 lb on the wheels is like loosing 7-10 lbs on the rest of the bike). The result is a ride that feels like I am 20 lbs lighter and 20 years younger. I don't recommend it for everyone and I wouldn't use it on the rockiest trails, but it works for me. Go with a decent steel frame, go with a reliable front shock, go for light tires and wheels and go ride!   Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 02:36 am:    I ride a trek 4900, I have allways run Trek bikes. Every other bike I have owned has prematurely met it's demise. I like the attention to detail, componant set options, and ruggedness. Just my .02. Cheers, Kennith   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 10:28 am:    goooooo steel! grew up racing steel Hutch BMX frames. However, bombing down mountains fully suspended is....FUN! Ritchey makes some good stuff...wore out a set of Ritchey Logic cranks on that Cannondale up there...replaced them with....a new set of Logics   Jake Hartley (Jake) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 10:37 am:    Another oldy out here, rode Kleins mostly. Still have my Pinnacle, outfitted with a combo of SunTour XC, Deore XT and Campy and a bunch of Ti stuff. Hardtails are the way to go! Bike has been hammered hard and never had a frame failure. Don't ride as much as I used to, though it still is fun. An added benefit of the Pinnacle was that when I got my Disco (Caprice Green), the bike matched....   TPH (Snowman) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 10:43 am:    Let me guess, purple anodized ti stuff? S-   Jake Hartley (Jake) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 10:47 am:    no....natural or black... jackass   TPH (Snowman) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 10:53 am:    Rich- Cool history, I use to ride Tam in the early-mid 80's. Re-pack, Bolinas Ridge ect. Get up early enough and you could beat the rangers to the trailhead and be down before they finished their bagels and coffee. I like East Coast single track better now though, it just fits me better. My brush with fame was living in the same apartment house with Ross Schafer's (Salsa)ex-wife. A very nice lady who had some cool 1-off bikes. S- Ex-Petaluma Resident   Sean Hanagan (Seanh) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 11:22 am:    Blue, I raced a shinny chrome Hutch as a 12 expert(1981). I grew up in Maryland where the Hutch was built. Mr Hutchins was a mean man and a bitch of a sponsor. I switched to Torker as a thirteen year old. There have been a few steel dual squishies in the past. Fat city had the Shock-a-Billy and Boulder bikes had the Gazelle. One problem, a 9lb cross country frame made for a 28 lb bike. I'm ridding a 4lb custom Ritchey WCS tubed Cherry which I've had since 96. It's had three paint jobs and two Wiegle treatments and is still the best ridding bike I've ever swung a leg over.   AndyThoma Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 05:43 pm:    I am an old school guy, I started MT biking in the late 80's on a trek 800. I had one of those 700cm wheeled mtb/cross things, fun bikes. I think I'll own my bontrager forever, but I will also have a F/S bike for abusive trails. Suspension is much more reliable these days, I had an original Manitou and a softride stem. Problem is now I can't stand riding a mtb without some kind of suspension. My Klein road bike was the first aluminum road bike I owned. All steel before that, I think I am going back to steel or ti with a Serotta this summer. One of the bikes I miss is my Bridestone mb-2 with the softride stem and suntour xc pro. That bike seemed to never break down and is probably still being rode today. Sean- Funny thing was I used to sell those 9800 treks. The last year they where out they put a Carbon swing arm on and a risse air oil shock, they actually rode almost like a Sugar or Fuel rides today, I actually thought they were not that bad of a bike. I always wanted a Mountain Cycle so I got one, you have to ride one, they work really well. However I am certain an Intense or Turner is in the future. What I liked about M/C was the fact they built a bike that worked and stuck with, unlike cannondale and trek who seem to have a new design every 2 years. I seem to ride a bike a few years then get board with it and then buy a new one. Jack I might have to take you up on the ride offer, I need to explore Co more. It looks like a beautiful area, hows the wheelin? Andy   Erik Olson (Jon) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 05:44 pm:    Rich, Is Gary still living up in Fairfax? e   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 06:05 pm:    Andy, want to sell the San Andreas????????????   TPH (Snowman) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 06:15 pm:    Jake- My comment was a bonding thing but I guess you did'nt appreciate it or get it. I noticed in your profile that we were close in age. I thought that you might relate to that "Era" of mountain biking, I guess I was wrong. Name calling is totally unnecessary. S-   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 07:04 pm:    "Let me guess, purple anodized ti stuff?" Hey Sno, Remember Cooks Racing Cranks? My first Cdale F700 was purple and I thought it would be way cool with a set of purple anodized Cranks. I am glad I am over that stage now. HA! Damn Andy, five times at Canaan? Man, after the '96 race, I didn't touch my MTB for two weeks. I was totally questioning my sanity after that all-nighter. Cool thing though about that Samstead (sp) guy. Hey passed me around 3am and provided words of encouragement. I think those solo 24 hour racers are 'touched' paul   Jake Hartley (Jake) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 07:21 pm:    Snow: Sorry 'bout that. Thought I was catching flak as often happens on this board. I always avoided the colorful stuff, I just wanted weight reduction. My apologies.   TPH (Snowman) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 08:09 pm:    Jake- No problem, I understand what you mean. What's weird is after I logged off I went to my basement to do a fork change on my bike. I went to my toolbox and guess what was on top? A purple anodized Aheadset cap! Kinda odd because I had not seen it in quite a while. Hey keep that Suntour XC stuff, it's great gear and definitely don't sell your Klein! Paul- Yeah Cook Bros. "Dogbone" cranks! I sold my pair on Ebay to a guy in England just last summer, $125.00! He said they are really rare in the U.K. and was thrilled to get them. I always liked their stuff, QR's, binders ect. Now I wish I kept the "Bones" I am still resisting the 9-speed stuff!   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 08:17 pm:    I got the cook Brothers cranks not the dog bone. perhaps the "E" crank I am still not gone the way of nine speed either although the time is coming as ti XTR cassettes are getting harder to find in 9 speed. How far can yall ride wheelies? Any of yall riden Chris King Headsets/   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 08:49 pm:    Sorry Guys, I have fell to the dark side. The Scapel is a 9 speed with XTR. 'E' cranks were the shit!   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 09:03 pm:    DO you have the newest XTR? I think I am gonna hold out for some.   Jake Hartley (Jake) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 09:10 pm:    Snow: Yeah I always liked SunTour and never had any problems with their equipment. It didn't seem to get the press that Shimano and Campy got, but performed well. I had a SunTour group on my first real road bike, a Gitane. It was a great, light bike that you could haul ass on. It met an unfortunate demise when I hit a cab in New Orleans at about 25 mph. The Klein is a keeper, the problem now is trying to keep my oldest son off of it!   TPH (Snowman) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 09:29 pm:    Suntor had financial problems and Shimano was their to capitalize on it. The Suntor demise was very unfortunate because they made great products. A cab at 25 mph, ouch! Not much will survive that. Hey keep your kid in cycling if you can, it's a great lifelong sport. S-   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 09:51 pm:    Phil, The XTR on the Scapel shifts as smooth as sex!   Sean Hanagan (Seanh) Posted on Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 10:26 pm:    Nothing I repeat nothing shifted better than my late model XC pro (8sp Shimano compatable)top mount shifters. I have had all kinds of shifters XCpro, XT, XTR 8 and 9, Sram etc. If I could still buy 8sp I would put them back on. The ability to switch to friction saved me in at least 2 dozen muddy races including Canaan and the nationals at Mt. Snow. All it has to do is drizzle on my XTR 9sp and it stops working. Andy, The skiing, ridding and wheeling are top notch. In late March a group of guys are spending a few days in either Fruita or Moab. This has become a twice a year ritual and you are more than welcome to join us. It's a bunch of mid 30's ex cc racers who are now weekend warriors. The emphisis is on a strait up good time and not speed. We get in about 4-5 hours a day and then hit camp and enjoy some good company as well as good beer. Give it some thought and let me know. Late March is always a good time to jump start the motivation and helps with that last month or so of winter.   TPH (Snowman) Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:09 am:    Sean- The late model XC pro (8sp Shimano compatable)top mount shifters were very smooth and I do miss the friction setting, especially in mud. I will still always run friction up front to feather off with (presently SRAM). Mt.Snow: I've almost killed myself racing there a couple of times. It's become a bit of a circus though and I've stayed away as of late. The promoters stage racers way too long IMHO. It's just lovely warming up for 1/2 hour, getting to the start and then watching your HR drop to resting. It's become extremely commercial like many races, ah the old days.... Have you ever raced Mt. St. Anne or Bromont? Both great courses and close by for us. Also they coordinate well with Mt. Snow.   Jack (Jack) Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 12:15 pm:    Andy- Sorry for the delay, we’ve been dealing with a nasty flu that hit my 8 year old. I have not explored all the 4wd possibilities here. I do not have a winch, and am usually by myself so the stuff I’ve done would be considered pretty tame (lame?) by hardcore off-roaders I’m sure. But, the scenery and views are spectacular. I can think of a couple of times that if I hadn’t been in my Disco, I wouldn’t have made it – but nothing that would break axles, bash body panels, etc. Sean- I’ve run and raced the same 9-spd XTR for almost three years with no issues. It is sensitive to clean cables / housing and if your chain line isn’t perfect it can be miserable to maintain. Agreed that 8-spd was bombproof, but I do like the subtle difference in ratios that 9-spd allows. Many of the Gary Fisher/Subaru mtn. bike team riders use the rapid rise rear derailleur. Remember that from a couple of years ago? It works in “reverse” with the derailleur spring moving the cage UP the cassette – much easier shifting under load (like climbing), and running up the cassette, especially if you have the 34t. And, they all ride 9x2, so they’ve eliminated most of the problems with the granny ring big cassette issues that 9-spd is famous for. “…It's a bunch of mid 30's ex cc racers who are now weekend warriors. The emphasis is on a strait up good time and not speed.” Yeah right...watch out Andy, sounds like hammer time. Ha ha. I may have a group from Winter Park ready to get away by then, do you know when in March?   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:45 pm:    You know; all of this mountain bike talk exhibits a lot of racing experience here. I wonder if we could get a team together for a 24 gig somewhere? Thinking aloud.... Paul   Jack (Jack) Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 02:08 pm:    http://www.trilife.com/fr_sched.htm Aug. 2/3 in Winter Park, CO. I can provide dirt cheap lodging (unless you really like to camp), use of shop. I'm old, but I make up for it by riding slow. Jack   Sean Hanagan (Seanh) Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 08:20 pm:    Jack, You know what all the folks used to call rapid rise? Rapid demise. I have brand new XTR cables with the little ferrules that contain grease. I have a BB with adjustable chain lines. IMHO 9sp has way too many gears on one narrow casette. I would love to run a 2x9 but I'm no longer in that kinda shape. August sounds like fun, pencil me in. I don't need accomodations though we just scored a new Eurovan camper last summer. Andy, I never made it to Bromont or St. Anne. I spent most of my life in Maryland which was a haul. With regard to nationals you forgot to mention the always wonderful spectator laden FRIDAY start. Experts got to race Friday morning while the beginers and sports had the weekend. Anyone who had a job had to take three days off that week because you had to pick up your race packet on Thursday before 4 or so. If you wanted to pre ride the course than that meant a Wed arrival. All for the affordable price of some $75 or so entry fee. NEVER again!   Jack (Jack) Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 09:49 pm:    The '03 XTR is only available with rapid rise rear derailleur. From what I understand, '03 is not compatible with the earlier XTR, due to changes in shifter/brake and bb design. Chain rings in 22-32-44 only, no more 24-34-46. I looked briefly at the show, but didn't spend too much time so I've not actually ridden it.   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 07:44 am:    I have to admit, I had I had to re-learn shifting with the new EXT 9 speed. The Mantra was an old 8 speed XT that could shift with copius amounts of mud and debris in it.   Sus (Susannah) Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 02:32 pm:    I want one of the Land Rover Mountain Bikes they sell in England. No electrical stuff from Lucas to go wrong!! Actually, I know nothing of their quality, but thought it would be cool to have one. I rode a friend's GT Aggressor and fell in love. I'm still trying to convince him to sell it to me.   Jack (Jack) Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 09:40 pm:    Sus - I see on your profile that you live in Lynchburg, that's where I grew up. I get back about once a year to visit family. It's such a beautiful area, with lots of pretty cool stuff nearby. I usually visit the bike shops when I'm home, and Bikes Unlimited (isn't that the big one near LC?) is a great shop, as good as any in the country. If you liked the GT, see what they... have you might be surprised at how inexpensive a bike is nowadays. Jack   Sus (Susannah) Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 01:02 pm:    Thanks Jack. I've been in there, but I'm not sure they carry the GT brand. There is another good shop where my fiance lives in Waynesboro called Cycle Recycle. Actually, I like Lynchburg. Came here for college and have stayed. It's a good mix of the small and large town feel! You'll have to look for my car when you come in next time!   Sean Hanagan (Seanh) Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 10:37 pm:    Snowman, Apparently I don't read so good The response still applies.   AndyThoma Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 12:35 pm:    Sean, Send me an email when you get close to going, I'd be into riding with you guys. I love moab riding and I'm always up for an excuse to ride there, plus here in slc its to muddy and icy to ride. Andythoma@netzero.com Hopefully I'm not to slow for you guys, at least I could keep up on the beer drinking side. Jack, We have to try to set up a ride over summer. I would like to explore CO more, would be nice to ride with someone who knows the area. I also want to explore some of those wheeling trails Co is famous for. I'm not "extreme" enough to want to bash body panels, if it happens, it happens, but if you want to try to meet up for wheeling or riding let me know. Also your right I think I might be to slow for Seans ex racer group. Blue Its a medium size MC. Built with XTR 11-34t 9spd cass and raceface forged cranks and quality rings at 46-34-24t. BB is xt. Hayes Hydualic 8" fnt 6" rear rotors. xt disk hubs db spokes, brass nipples to sun ryno lite rims. Stratos helix pro coil/air rear shock with lock out and external rebound control. I'd keep my jr-t w/qr20 axle but put on a Marrocci Z-1 130mm qr. Has grip shift, Plasma or quartz stuff I think? Bontrage lite seat post, titec hell bent hbar and shorty stem. If the price was right I'd consider it... let me know if there is any interest. Andy   Sean Hanagan (Seanh) Posted on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 03:21 pm:    Andy, I will do just that. I'm serious when I say we are no longer fit by any means. We do well on the descents though. We are all in it for the fun. We are looking at the last week in March from that Wed through Sunday. Hope you can make it. If you get a chance you need to spend some time in Jack's neck of the woods. The ridding in the Faser valley is sweeeeet. Hundreds of miles of maintained single track YUMMY!