Can you use the same switch and wiring?

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Author Message   Orlando Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 06:51 pm:    Im planning to install an ARB bumper, and plug in couple lights on the bumper. Is it ok to use my stock fog light switch and the same wiring to these IPF lights? Or do I need to use the one that comes with it the package?   Tom Hyslip (007) Posted on Friday, January 24, 2003 - 06:54 pm:    Depends on the wattage of the IPF Lights? The stock lights are 55W, and you are ok up to that amount. I have seen people connect 100W lights to the stock wiring and it works fine, but you run the chance of shorting out, or worse burning up the wires. The other draw back of the stock wiring is, it is set to work only with low beam.   Jess Alvarez (Jester) Posted on Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 02:50 am:    Hmmmm.... I think Hella 500s are spec'd at 55watts. Now, can you install 3 of them on the same switch? To address the High/Low beam question, I think I read somewhere on Dweb that you can have the dealer set your chip to leave the fogs on during high beam operation.   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Saturday, January 25, 2003 - 03:04 am:    Run a relay and play it safe! Use the relays included in the package...you may be able to track down the lead going from the factory fog light switch to the factory fog light relay and use that to switch the relay for the IPF lights.   Jess Alvarez (Jester) Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 01:38 am:    MAY be able to? Not trying to hijack this, and this is on the same general topic. If i wanted to wire 3 hellas into the same switch, what is the best method to go about this. Searches of the same subject brought me no success. Any ideas?   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 02:25 am:    Do a search on relays. You can run a relay for each of the three lights. One switch can activate all three relays, and there is very little load on that switch no matter how many relays you add to it (well, to a point). Heck, if you want to dig deep enough, that one switch could be your factory fog-lamp switch. Get it? I would suggest finding a local store specializing in vehicular electronics supply. Get cataolgs from Hella and Grote, to name a few. They will include spec's on just about every relay imaginable, as well as how they work and the basic outline of the circuits you would be incorporating them into. "MAY be able to?" I could do it. I would do it. But you're not me. I'm not Superman, or super smart, or super rich. If I want to do something, I'll figure out everything I need to know to do it. It seems the more some people start to know about something, the less they want to do it. Wiring is one of those subjects. So, if you want to do it, take the time to figure it out. Because there is one thing worse than trying to sift through a wire harness looking for the right leads and creating the circuits you want...it's sifting through somebody else's botched modifications to fix the problem.   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Sunday, January 26, 2003 - 02:50 am:      Robbie (Robbie) Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 10:34 am:    kind of along the same lines. I currently have 2 Hella 500's wired up with the wiring harness that came with the lights (one relay - fuse between relay and lights) all wired up to a stock fog light switch. Would it be possible to just switch out the 500's for 4000's or is the relay not big enough for this? Thanks.   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:42 pm:    Do the 4000's come with the same size fuse? Pretty simple, (hypothetically) if it's a 20 amp relay with a 20 amp fuse for BOTH 500's, but the 4000's have a 20 amp fuse for each light (and 2 relays instead of 1), then no. You are likely to overload the relay. You need to figure out if the 4000's require more than what the 500's require. I would use whatever relay and fuses that comes with the 4000 kit; you can easily rewire the relay(s) if you suspect the 500 relay to be underrated. If it comes with 1 relay, use that. If the relay in the 500 kit has the same part number as the relay in the 4000 kit, then use your current wiring. I have not seen the wiring in either kits, so I have no first-hand experience...but WRT electrical wiring, it's always better to over-build it than to run near the limits of the circuit's capability.   jcpats02 Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 06:05 pm:    I just wired a set of Hella Black Magic 1000's on my 99 DII and ran the wires to the empty slot below the fog light switches. I would like to buy another LR fog light switch to connect too. Where is the best non-dealer place to buy a switch? Any problems using the LR switch?   Robbie (Robbie) Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 09:32 am:    thanks for the response Jason, pretty much what I figured, just had to hear it out loud. the switch part number (for the DI) is AMR4138. Got mine at Rover Connection.   Jess Alvarez (Jester) Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 12:53 am:    Thanks for the graphic for us 'electrically challenged' people. So...with an O2D2, IS there a factory relay already between the switch and the previously existing lights? Would it be a safe assumption to say that it should go: Switch--->Factory Relay--->3 Hella Relays---->Fuses---->Lights? Or am i way off here? If there IS a factory relay for the stock fogs, where is it? Thanks Jess   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 10:27 am:    There should be a relay for the fog lamps (go find it). I personally wouldn't put the factory relay between the switch and the three new relays...it's just another part that could needlessly fail. I guess it also wouldn't hurt, either. If you do incorporate the factory relay, know that while there are fuses incorporated into the stock circuit, they will not help or replace the need of installing the fuses included with the Hella kits.   Jess Alvarez (Jester) Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 12:38 pm:    Well, I guess I didnt explain myself very well. I guess what I am asking is if I need to remove the factory relay, or if I can leave it on. I think what you are saying is that the setup I explained above will work, however, it is not the 'preferred' method of doing it. Now...how to remove something you cant find....   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 04:25 pm:    It's your choice. You can use it or remove it. As far as finding the relay... Keep looking! I've already spent enough time telling you how to do it. If I have to tell you were that damn relay is, I'm gonna charge you for it.   Jess Alvarez (Jester) Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 10:06 pm:    Jason. THank you for your generous offering of time. Your posts have helped many of us out in trying to figure our way around automotive electrical circuits. As far as your last post, all I have to say is this: Well...isnt that nice. The additional effort of typing "the relay is located <insert relay location here>" would have been phenominal. I can understand how drained you must be in your search for explanations, so I beg you, say no more. I didnt realize that we were looking for the arc of the covenant, or your buried treasure, Jason. I just wanted to know where the relay is so that I can remove it. When I find it, I will be sure to let the rest of you all know where it is.....and I wont bother charging you. How pathetic. Thanks anyway. Jess   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 01:34 am:    Actually, Jess...the correct answer is, I haven't tried to look for it, therefore I cannot tell you where it is. Heck, just leave it where it is at. Your best bet is to pull the fog-lamp switch, check which wire is hot (if neither are hot, turn the ignition on and check again), and pull the wire that isn't. That is your switched wire and you should run a new wire from the switch to your new relays...rather than finding the factory relay, only to have to remove it and rig up some sort of jumper from that area to lead into your new relays. Get it?   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 01:38 am:    BTW, Jess...if you MUST find that relay, it's in the vicinity of the volume encapsulated by your vehicle. This sounds like a small region to search, but believe me, I've lost my keys in areas smaller than that, only to require my wife's 15 seconds of disgusted involvement to locate them (often half buried by a magazine or late cell-phone bill).   Jess Alvarez (Jester) Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 06:36 am:    You know, I have to apologize. Yesterday was a particularly bad day for me and I took it out on the wrong venue....so.... Thanks for the advice. I will give it a shot as you described, and probably do a write up or something so that others can benefit from my stupidity and frustration. Thanks   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 09:35 am:    Well, better to take it out here than to take it out on the wife, kids, dog, double-wide, that car on blocks in your front yard, etc.   Jess Alvarez (Jester) Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 12:32 pm:    Thats funny. Thanks for the laugh   Orlando Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 03:38 pm:    Looking at the fog light kits from roverconnection.com, it comes with the wiring harness, but no relays. does that mean a relay is built-in?   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 05:39 pm:    Call Rover Connection and ask them that question. First, there is nothing wrong with utilizing the stock fog-lamp relay IF you stay within the recommended amps for that relay. Second, I have no friggin' idea how many watts the Rover Connection fog lamp kit runs...without that info, I have no idea whether Rover Connection intends that you utilize the stock fog-lamp wiring, but jumper to their fog lamps with the "harness kit," or simply use a switch that they provide without using a relay (bad idea because the current has to travel 15+ feet from the battey to the lights = too much resistance, not optimizing the capability of the lights). How about e-mailing or calling Rover Connection, ask why their kit does not use a relay and/or if you utilize parts of the stock fog-lamp wire harness? If in all doubt, do it yourself and do it right.   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 05:44 pm:    http://www.roverconnection.com/Disco%20Acc%20Pix/s5000.htm I'm starting to think you may be better off having somebody else do the work...   Carter Simcoe Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 07:41 pm:    Just take out all of the switches and wiring as they dont help while in the mud   Orlando Posted on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 01:20 am:    Jason, those are not the same lights.. go to disco2 accessories.. part stc50029 on roverconnection.com.   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 01:51 am:    Again, call them and ask. Rover part number, these are a factory option. Your Rover, though not equipped with fog lamps, probably have the main harness and relay already on your vehicle (FWIW, my D1 does not have fog-lamps...it however has the switch and the wiring; I just need to install fog lamps and run leads to the lamps). Rover Connection should be able to confirm this; being a factory option, the lights are not rated above whatever relay may be in place...I am thinking you just need to install the switch and connect whatever wires are present behind the dash, install the lights, and use the included harness to connect to the factory wiring between the bumper and the dash.   Jess Alvarez (Jester) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 03:26 am:    Okay, I bit the bullet and just friggin did it I bought 2 Hella 500 kits and wired the suckas up. They work fine with the factory relay. I am going to go to wherever I can tomorrow to get a relay that is greater than 20 amps, which is the stock amperage for that relay, however, 2 of the Hella 500 lights take only a 15 amp fuse, so I guess i have to figure it should be okay at least temporarily. I plan to do a write up on the installation of the lights asap so that I can help those of you who are as confused by the differences between relays, switches, fuses, grouchy nuns, and where they exist on your truck Stay tuned....I will let you knwo when my writeup is out... Thanks, Jason, for your help and patience. Jess   Chris Brennan (Cdmbrennan) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 08:12 pm:    Jess, Since you just wired your 500s...perhaps you can help. I have three 500s mounted on the brush guard, with 1 blue wire and 1 black wire coming out of each. I twisted the three blue wires together, electrical-taped them together and grounded them to the frame. I spliced the three black wires together and connected them to the black relay box included with the lights. The red fused wire I connected to the positive terminal of my battery and the other end to the black relay box. I grounded a blue wire to the frame and then connected the other end to the black relay box. I connected the yellow wire to the middle position of the included switch and the other end to the black relay box. Now I'm left with two open areas on the switch- top and bottom. I'm assuming the top is the ground (another blue wire connected to the frame). The directions indicate to attach the green wire to the switch and the other end to the "source". What is this "source"? Is it the wire to the headlights, the fusebox, what? And how can it be easily spliced into these wires? Does the rest of the setup sound similar to what you did? If you could help, I'd greatly appreciate it...I am a moron when it comes to figuring out switches, fuses, relays, amps, etc. Thank you.   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 08:28 pm:    http://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech/corey_wiring_lights/corey.htm A keyword search on yahoo: hella 500 wiring May yeild some useful info.   Jess Alvarez (Jester) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:01 pm:    Chris, I gotta tell you, That doesnt sound at all similar...I didnt exactly follow the directions that came with the hellas. I researched the electrical diagrams for my truck. My truck had previously used connection points that used to run to the old fogs before I replaced the bumper.. I wrote up a wiring document that I can send you if you would like. It is pretty rough yet but it will give you an idea as to what I did. I am sending it by email to you   Chris Brennan (Cdmbrennan) Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 07:41 pm:    Jess and Jason, Many, many thanks. Didn't get a chance to work on it today but am going to take another look after work tomorrow. Really appreciate the help...   Jess Alvarez (Jester) Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 08:22 pm:    Sure thing. Did you get my email?   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 08:25 pm:    BTW, there is also a wire diagram (for wiring lights up to the stock fog-lamp switch) in the tech section here. Might be worth looking at.   Chris Brennan (Cdmbrennan) Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 04:30 pm:    Jess- yes I did. I think I'm going that way in installing...don't like the way I did mine. Again, thanks to both you and Jason.