| Author |
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Dean Chrismon (Chrismonda)
| | Posted on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 10:31 pm: | 
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I can not believe that this is true. He has alot of nerve to say this. Considering that SA is has the highest murder rate in the world. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 10:44 pm: |
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well he even has more nerve seeing as the same type of threat of war that we are using on Iraq is what finnaly brought the reform that got his two faced ass out of jail! |
Christopher Dynak (Adtoolco)
| | Posted on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 11:10 pm: |
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But, wasn't he our ally in the past? Now he's positioning himself against us? Sounds very familier...where have I heard this before?
-Chris |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 11:13 pm: |
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no see he's got it backwards...the smart guys start as our friend, get all the free handout weapons and cash turn and then turn into our enemy. |
Christopher Dynak (Adtoolco)
| | Posted on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 11:43 pm: |
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Lets see, after we free the south african black population from apartide, they run rough shot over white land owners... killing, murdering, raping. Now Bush agrees to $15 billion in AIDS relief for Africa and the next day Mandella stabs us in the back.
Who ever said isolationism doesn't work is fooling themselves. Its time for the U.S. to go on international "strike"... the socialist should love that. Unfortunatly "divide and conquere" will pull this country apart, too many apathetic Americans in relation to the small number of vocal socialist "elites". We are at war! Phisicaly and phlisophicaly. Wake up America!!!!! |
C. Brown
| | Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 02:08 pm: |
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Christopher...actually the black population in Zimbabwe are carrying out the rough shot over white land owners, killing etc...Mandela is just upset that the US was not as forthcoming in getting rid of Apartheid...how could they, the US still had to clean up the mess here...but he has turned out to be an ungrateful A@#!!
C. |
94Rover
| | Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 02:17 pm: |
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May I suggest to all of you that posted a comment or opinion- start subscribing to "The Economist". You will receive a different/+ or - viewpoint. It's an excellent journal as well. I've been a subscriber for about 12 years now.
94Rover |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 04:24 pm: |
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Maybe somebody could educate me on how it was the US who (sic) "[freed] south african black population from apartide"
This is a serious question. Living in Southern Africa at the time and not being an American I'd like to hear the "American" point of view because this wasn't how it was portrayed where I was living...
Thanks,
- Andrew. |
Jack (Olered)
| | Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 04:58 pm: |
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My roommate made an observation:
If the country's landscape is primarily DIRT, there are problems.
I know there will be opponents of the observation but think about it. |
adtoolco
| | Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 05:04 pm: |
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That was a bit of an overstatement on my part Andrew. To be correct, the U.S. put political and financial pressure on South Africa to end apartide. We didn't "free" them persay but we were definitly an integral part of the process. How was it portrayed from your neck of the woods? Was it reported as U.S. interference in South African affairs?
-Chris |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 05:11 pm: |
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no no I aint gonna play sun city! |
Willie Joubert (Willie)
| | Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 05:37 pm: |
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There is way more involved and it goes much deeper than you have time for to explain the South African issue.
The big players in the game got involved over 30 years ago, US, Israel, Angola (Government and Unita), Namibia (South West Africa), Russia, Cuba, Zimbabwe, South Africa etc.
It involves a Government in South Africa with a system of Apartheid (an Afrikaans word meaning seperate) a war in Angola, comunism and the African National Congress (ANC), at the time full members of several Communist movements. (cuurent Government in SA)
It was not just mandela and apartheid....
BTW, he was arrested 30 odd years ago and spent 28 years in prison because they were boming shopping malls and were caught in the act of planning a huge bom in another civilian place, Rivonia (therefor his trial was the Rivonia trial) Some might call him a Terorist....
The only thing he had going for him at the stage was he was against the system of apartheid....but also a communist, this is why they put him away. He was in regular contact with the leaders of SA of the day. They were convincing him comunism don't work.
SA was under UN sanctions for 27 odd years, while fighting a war in Angola for 20 odd years. Supported by it's own Arms developement program and a semi Goverment organisation called Armscor (who now in the hands of the ANC and mandela supplied Iraq with a G5 "very potent" long range ground to ground Cannon used in Desert storm against the US) as well as support from the US via Israel..... SA was fighting a war in Angola against the Cominist Government of the time. SA was supporting a rebel movement in the South called Unita.
Armscor developed and built 6 nukes but were dismantelled before the Goverment was handed over to mandela and co, mandela was furious when he was told of the fact that he is getting an Army but no Nukes....coolest move the SA Goverment ever made.
These are the basics....and then the world gave mandella a Nobel Piece Prize.....who is the real a^^&%*@s in this story....???
This is a very basic overview...
Cheers |
94Rover
| | Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 07:37 pm: |
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Could any of us here spend over 20 Years in Prison?-In a Country that was against you for more reasons than just your beliefs(RACE).
Doubt it.
Most of us wouldn't last more than 2 hours in a city jail. I wouldn't last more than a minute. Hell I can't even tolerate being in the house for long periods of time.
Mandela gets out and receives WORLD WIDE love that only Mandela could receive-
I doubt any of us could get a U.S. citizen to send us 1 dollar if we were "locked up"-
How did this topic start anyway?
Sometimes we @ DiscoWeb can be some real "Haters". But this is a message board, right? I've spoken, Flame Away, don't worry, message board comments don't upset me. :-) |
Dean Chrismon (Chrismonda)
| | Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 07:40 pm: |
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I have family that have lived in SA for over 40 years. My mothers second cousin moved from England to work with the gold mines that are down there. After Apartheid the government has become a war zone, his house has been broken into over 30 times. And he says in response to Mandela, well the man spent over 80 percent of his time as president out of the county and had no idea of what was going on in his now corrupt country. I am not defending Apartheid but I think alot of things should have been thout out before the whole country was turned over to militant black rule. |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 07:27 pm: |
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Well Chris I was pretty much a kid growing up in Zambia and Kenya (ages 8-18) so obviously my view of the whole apartheid system was pretty simplified. The sanctions, which the US was a part of, were certainly mentioned but of course in the Zambian government-monitored press, you'd think that Zambia was leading the charge against apartheid. Actually the Zambian government was very opposed to apartheid, much to their credit. At least that was my understanding. The people certainly were. Actually, a funny side note is that when I was 17 I was arrested in Zambia for being a South African spy. I camped several km away from a satellite dish and the (drunk) local policemen decided I was on a reconnaisance mission. So there you go, I spent a night in a Zambian prison as a political prisoner so send me your money ;-)
Anyways, thanks also to Willie for his (white? not that it necessarily matters) South African opinion on the whole issue. I haven't been to South Africa in a long time, but I do have a sister in Johannesburg and a step brother in Durban. I guess the question is, what price do you put on "freedom"? And what is freedom? I think all of us wish that everybody in South Africa was safer and wealthier than they were in the days of apartheid but unfortunately that hasn't exactly happened... |
Christopher Dynak (Adtoolco)
| | Posted on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 08:47 pm: |
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Hey Andrew, I bet you played allot of Rugby growing up in South Africa. I played second row for a couple seasons here in the states. I'm glad I did, a real great sport that should get more attention in the U.S.
-Chris |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 03:30 pm: |
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It is a cool sport that's generally misunderstood here in the US. I went to high school in Kenya and it was pretty big there but I never played. Too skinny & uncoordinated, and too interested in doing my own thing. More into individual things like hiking.
That's why the Canadian military didn't want me for their officer training program too. I didn't play enough team sports in high school. I guess they really value team spirit in the military ... go figure ... |
R. B. Bailey (Rover50987)
| | Posted on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 04:50 pm: |
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Mandella is confused, nothing more, nothing less. To equate a war that has not happend with the real holocaust is wrong. It shows a complete disconnect with what actually happened before and during WWII. The holocaust is not a hollywood embelishment, it was much worse than they could ever show. The only film that comes close is, "The Last Days" but only if you have seen "Shindler's List" to complete the visual picture.
Essentially, he is calling us all little Hitler wannabe's. |
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