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Author Message   William C. Leek (Onionman) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 10:52 am:    Anyone watching the news right now? Seems that the space shuttle Columbia has exploded and broken up upon re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere. Somewhere over Texas. No word on why. Please keep the astronauts' families in your prayers.   Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:11 am:    My prayers are with the crew and families of the Columbia. - Mark NASA STATEMENT ON LOSS OF COMMUNICATIONS WITH COLUMBIA NASA ^ | 2/1/03 | NASA http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/833950/posts   Brad Russell (Bradnc) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:25 am:    hey, My cousin, David Brown, was a mission specialist on that flight. He's in the upper left in the photo. The shuttle broke up at 203,000 feet going Mach 18. No contact with NASA as of yet. I'll update later if I find out anything the media doesn't know. Brad   Glenn Guinto (Glenn) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:44 am:    Man... I'm terribly sorry to hear that sad news. We will pray for the crew and families of the space shuttle columbia. Glenn brings back sad memories about the challenger, I think I was in 6th grade at that time.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 11:58 am:    Glenn, I was too, and it's anniverary was just four days ago. Recently there'd been talk about restarting the "teacher in space" program, too... Brad, Please pass along our prayers and condolences to yours and the other families. -L   Eric Pena (Evalp) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 12:43 pm:    Oh Oh... Columbia was carrying the first Isreali astronaut and 6 Americans. That might proove to be bad.   muskyman Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 01:25 pm:    this is truley a national tragedy, my families prayers are with you Brad and all the families of those involved. we still have the safest space program there is, and the fact we have gone into space so many times is a testament to the dedication these great scientists at nasa have.   Dean Chrismon (Chrismonda) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 02:29 pm:    To Brad my deepest sympathy for you and your family. Very sad day indeed. My prayers are with you.   William C. Leek (Onionman) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 03:04 pm:    To paraphrase Isaiah: "They shall rise up with wings as eagles; they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint, they shall soar and not be afraid."   adtoolco Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 03:28 pm:    Prayers and condolances to the NASA familiy. We are with you.   Carter Simcoe (Carter) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 05:30 pm:    Yes, very sad and I hope it gives us all more respect for the work these guys do. Thankfully the media-morons attempting to make a mockery of the whole thing by trying to pin it on terrorists were shut-up pretty early. Early on I heard them trying to link it by saying the fact that it happened over the president's home state might have something to do with it, dumb-asses.   KJ Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 06:27 pm:    Brad, I'm terribly sorry to hear of your family's loss. I hope you can find some comfort in knowing so many grieve with you. I heard the news just before I went out to teach riding lessons this morning, and I broke the news to everyone gathered here this morning. The out-pouring of sadness and admiration for NASA and the astronauts was predictably profuse. If there is one agency everyone loves and supports it has to be NASA. The word hero is sadly over-used these days, but I have always felt astronauts are heroes. Who is more brave than someone who, knowing what they know, straps themselves onto one of the biggest, fastest bombs ever made by the hand of man? We have all reaped the many benefits of the space program, and for that, and many other reasons, I salute and thank them all. Karen   KJ Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 06:51 pm:    Hey Brad, Just sitting here reading DiscoWeb and listening to NPR's "Hot Jazz Saturday Night", and the host Rob Banberger just sent out special condolances to the family of Captain David Brown. Thought you might want to know. Karen   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 09:03 pm:    Very good point Carter, I was watching the news at 9am just to see the thing land. Then at 9:18, after it was late by 2 minutes, NASA made the statement about loss comm at 0800CST. Instantly, I knew something was up. NASA is never late for anything. Anybody that thinks a surface-to-air missle (SAM) can climb up to Angels 203 and then chase down an airplane moving at Mach 18 is incredibly stupid. I am glad NASA made that known very quickly. Karen, Next time you are at Pax River, check out the street names on the Base. Each street is named for a person who gave their life in the advancement of our nations aerospace development. Paul   Michael Noe (Noee) Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 06:49 am:    Not to hijack the thread, but have any of you seen the IMAX 3-D movie about the International Space Station? I just saw it last weekend, unbelievably moving, I can't express my respect and admiration for what these people here and around the world are doing with space/earth research. Did anyone see the close up shot of the OV right before it broke up? It appeared to be sideways, not just heavily banked per the role reversal. It was as if the nose was 90 degrees off, left wing forward.   Brad Russell (Bradnc) Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 05:19 pm:    Upon reentry, the shuttle goes through a series of maneuvers to reduce speed that include going vertical and turning to the sides. It is likely that, if the left wing was what caused the crash, then you would have seen the vehicle turn with the left wing forward. On another note, I am attaching the last image that Dave sent us from Space. He wanted his family to be in space as well so he took a picture of them against the horizon of Earth...quite incredible. Always remember the crew of STS-107 aboard the Space Shuttle Columbia. There's no doubt in my mind that he died living his dream, and he would have given his life for the experience he had.   Ron Ward (Ronward) Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 07:26 pm:    I think that says it all.   KJ Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 08:29 pm:    Amen. Karen   Carter Simcoe (Carter) Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 08:41 pm:    Saved that to my hard drive, Thanks.   Will Bobbitt (Rkores) Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 08:56 pm:    Brad, I hate to hear your loss. You and your family will be in my prayers.   Brad Russell (Bradnc) Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 11:22 pm:    I ask that no one distributes that image to the media, as it is not meant for that purpose. Feel free to use it for any and all personal uses. I may upload some more in the near future. Brad   Carter Simcoe (Carter) Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 11:27 pm:    Yeah, the media makes a mockery out of everything they touch. I would hate to see that happen to your family. I am sure everyone around here is decent enough to respect that but just to be safe we should probablly keep this a dweb thing and not start sending it to others.   Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 09:57 am:    We now only have 3 shuttles left and many missions planned. I'd say we need to reallocate some money to develop a new vehicle. Boeing, Northrop May Have to Speed Shuttle Replacement Design Bloomberg.com ^ | Feb. 2, 2003 | Edmond Lococo http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/834863/posts Further down on this post are some proposed vehicles from each of the major contractors. - Mark   Brad Russell (Bradnc) Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 05:03 pm:    Mark, While down at the launch I had the privelege of speaking with NASA's official spokesperson for the next-generation vehicle. It is fairly far into design, he told me, contrary to what the media knows. It involves a Plasma Ion propolsion system and will take off of a runway like a plane rather than blasting off a launch pad. It will be capable of speeds roughly 2.5x what the shuttle now can do....approximately 45,000 miles per hour and could make it to Mars in about 3 months. The new vehicle is slated to begin going into space around 2015, even though the current shuttles are only one forth of the way through their life expectancy. Sorry if this is a little long winded...I won't add any more of what I learned unless I'm asked about it. Brad   Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 05:23 pm:    i've had an ugly feeling similar to waking up in the middle of the night thinking "oh shit...did i tighten up this connector...or did I not?" (on the case of an instrument that's deep in the ocean, with no means to recover or check its fate in months to come). some little, tiny things that get left behind and haunt you in a big and ugly way... peter   KJ Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 06:09 pm:    Brad, I heard something about that propulsion system yesterday. Fascinating stuff, and certainly it makes Mars a more doable mission. I'd love to hear more from you if you care to type about it. Your cousin has been getting a lot of press coverage on the local D.C. TV channels, as well as nationally. The families I've seen interviewed have been incredibly strong, I don't know how they do it. Karen   Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 06:16 pm:    Brad, From what I've been reading the current shuttle fleet was only designed for a 10 year life cycle and 100 missions. The remaing 3 have done about 25 to 30 missions of the intended 100, so the 1/4 of life expentancy. Problem is that the original vision was something like 10 missions a year, not the current rate of 2 per year. We are at and beyond the 10 years. Any idea what the new vehicle looks like and who the contractor is? I would think the 2015 schedule will need to be accelerated. Mars in 3 months make inter-planetary travel realistic. Good for the economy. We have lots of engineers looking for jobs. - Mark   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 06:56 pm:    Brad, I'm sure there are poeple here who would love to know more if you can give us information. But from my limited understanding of the Plasma Ion technology it's not capable of leaving the Earth from a runway as you describe. It's being designed for leaving Earths pull once it's been boosted to orbit by a chemical booster or launched from the Shuttle's payload bay.   Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 12:16 am:    New Eco-Friendly Foam Used on Columbias External Tank!! Florida Today ^ | Feb 02, 2003 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/835420/posts   Brad Russell (Bradnc) Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 08:40 pm:    Al, I may have misled in the last post i made. The way it was described to me, the shuttle (should it be called a plane), or vehicle, will either be towed up there as a glider or use another for of propolsion to take off the runway, then use the plasma ion technology once it reaches a given height. The forces involved in the current shuttle are incredible. When the shuttle is on the launch pad, 6 (or is it 8) stainless steel bolts are all that hold the shuttle up, each measuring about 8 inches in diameter. when the boosters ignite, these bolts are all immediately sheered without hesitation by the force of the shuttle pulling on them. They place pyrotechnics on them to aide the process, but say they really shouldn't even be an afterthought. The power the shuttle outputs at liftoff is incredible. Right at ignition the shutle bends up to 20 feet because of the force on it, much like cartoons, and then launches up into the air. I agree with whoever it was that said something about 10 years...the shuttle is outdated, but it is not old. the fastest computer on board was a 386, so for those that know little about computers, your digital wristwatch has more computing power than did the shuttle. I've decided it's difficult just to say stuff, so asking questions would be easier for me. Ask about anything...Columbia...what i know about it, the next gen. shuttle, anything. I've gotten quite good at it, as i have presented my info in most all of my classes at school. I also have some of the e-mails that Dave (David Brown) sent me from space, including his last message to our family, an e-mail written 6 hours before his tragic death. I would be willing to share if anyone is interested. I feel it's very important to get the message out, Dave's message, that the shuttle program must go on! Don't let those seven die in vein. Just those seven didn't die...the hopes and dreams of millions were on board that shuttle. Brad   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 09:05 pm:    Brad: You and your family has our deepest symathies from all of us here at DiscoWeb. If you would like, we could set up a special gallery for any private pictures like the one above, if you would like to share them. You can email them to myself or Ho, and we can set it up. We could include whatever you feel appropriate to release from Dave's email messages on that gallery page too, if you wish. Axel   Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 09:35 pm:    Very cool of you, Axel.   Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 09:41 pm:    Brad, Dave's message is not lost. Space exploration must continue. They were pioneers. Think of standing on the shores of the Mississippi river a few 100 years ago and saying "let's turn back". NOT! It's not in the human nature to turn away from a challange. As for NASA, it's record is amazing. I believe they have lost 17 astronauts over the life of the program. Considering the risk that is truely amazing. NASCAR's record isn't that good. Dave's vision and message is safe and alive. - Mark   Brad Russell (Bradnc) Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 09:54 pm:    OK, I decided to put up the last e-mail we got from Dave. It's rather moving, especially the last part. When you read it, imagine that a family member of yours is due to come in to land in Florida, and when the countdown clock gets to 0, no shuttle has arrived and none is in sight...That's what Dave's parents, Paul and Dottie Brown, had to endure that morning. "Friends, It's hard to believe but I'm coming up on 16 days in space and we land tomorrow. I can tell you a few things: Floating is great - at two weeks it really started to become natural. I move much more slowly as there really isn't a hurry. If you go to fast then stopping can be quite awkward. At first, we were still handing each other things, but now we pass them with just a little push. We lose stuff all the time. I'm kind of prone to this on Earth, but it's much worse here as I can now put things on the walls and ceiling too. It's hard to remember that you have to look everywhere when you lose something, not just down. The views of the Earth are really beautiful. If you've ever seen a space Imax movie that's really what it looks like. What really amazes me is to see large geographic features with my own eyes. Today, I saw all of Northern Libya, the Sinai Peninsula, the whole country of Israel, and then the Red Sea. I wish I'd had more time just to sit and look out the window with a map but our science program kept us very busy in the lab most of the time. The science has been great and we've accomplished a lot. I could write more but about it but that would take hours. My crewmates are like my family - it will be hard to leave them after being so close for 2 1/2 years. My most moving moment was reading a letter Ilan brought from a Holocaust survivor talking about his seven year old daughter who did not survive. I was stunned such a beautiful planet could harbor such bad things. It makes me want to enjoy every bit of the Earth for how great it really is. I will make one more observation - if I'd been born in space I know I would desire to visit the beautiful Earth more than I've ever yearned to visit to space. It is a wonderful planet. Dave" -David Brown, mission specialist STS-107 Axel, I would gladly contribute more photos, but NASA has not yet cleared any of the other photos for release to the general public. Maybe that will change in the near future   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 10:44 pm:    Brad: Ok, whenever you are ready. Axel   Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 10:16 am:    Haven't seen this in the news yet. Very interesting. Take a look at replies number 37 and 39. Pieces of Columbia have been found in Arizona and I believe New Mexico. S.F. man's astounding photo Mysterious purple streak is shown hitting Columbia San Fran Chronicle ^ | February 5, 2003 | Sabin Russell http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/836319/posts   John Davies Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 10:54 am:    Here's a new question: Why didn't NASA have the left wing inspected in space? I have seen no indications that anything was done to actually "eyeball" the damage - it was all done with computer simulations on the ground. Please correct me if this impression is faulty. I'm not saying that an astronaut would have seen anything (or been able to do anything about it), but I do think that someone should have been sent for a look. If one of the crew had seen serious damage, then NASA could have made a decision to leave all but the pilot and copilot at the space station before the shuttle re-entered the atmosphere. Comments? BTW, here is an interesting story about the vulnerability of the wings: http://www.komotv.com/stories/22855.htm   Sawyer (Stucky) Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 11:32 am:    John From what I have read, on each mission only the required equipment is brought on board to complete the mission as planned in the books. NASA has no way of getting a person out of the shuttle to look at something as far away as the underside of the wing. The only idea now was to have a satellite in space look at the damage, if even possible. Also the shuttle and the ISS where on two different orbits and had no chance of meeting up, plus they did not have the air lock on board the shuttle that would be needed. Also there are no repair plans or emergency plans. If you get into space you are coming home the same way you left. The idea of sending up another shuttle was also impossible due to the fact they only had enough fuel, supplies, oxygen for a little more than their planned 16 days. But I could be wrong, just what I have read and heard.   KJ Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 12:55 pm:    Brad, Thank you for sharing that email from Dave. Isn't it amazing that one enduring theme with human beings is that of, "There's no place like home." If only they could have clicked their heels together three times and been home safely..... Karen   Greg P. (Gparrish) Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 02:32 pm:    Brad, very sorry for your loss. Your cousin, as well as the other astronauts are all hero's in my book. Hopefully the exploration will continue and the human spirit will go forward, learning from it's mistakes. I'm sure everyone has seen these, but there are mission photos posted here: http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-107/ndxpage1.html   Brad Russell (Bradnc) Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 03:15 pm:    John, Quite simply, the reason NASA has told us is that they felt there was no reason whatsoever to do so. They told us that insulation and/or ice falls off parts of the shuttle on about half of the launches and all analysis they did showed no reason for concern. Contrary to what Sawyer has said, NASA told us that they could have had a repair if need be, although it would be difficult because there were no hand holds on the undersides of the wings. As far as assessing the damage, they said telescopes on Earth and other satellites could have been used to check out the wing. I think that shows just how sure they were that it wouldn't cause a problem, because NASA doesn't take unnecessary risks, even if they were wrong this time. I'm not sure if there would've been any way to meet up with the ISS, as I have heard conflicting stories about that and nothing from NASA. IMO, the engineers and others working at NASA are some of, if not the, smartest individuals in the world. And even if they made a mistake this time, I would put my life in their hands without a thought right now. They're that damn good. If anyone has any questions about the shuttle itself, i know a good bit about that, so feel free to ask, even if it doesn't relate to the accident.   Sawyer (Stucky) Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 03:57 pm:    Like I said, just stuff I have read and heard, by no means am I a NASA expert or a Rover one for that matter. Hell that was my first post ever I just usually read the info and keep out of giving my opinions. But a little "proof" for my argument, though it is the media and sometimes they are full of BS anyways. And I agree NASA probably did everything that they could have imagined, hell they put a man on the moon for gods sake. the link http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030203/ap_wo_en_po/na_gen_us_shuttle_doomed_from_the_start__2 "NASA did not consider a spacewalk by the crew to inspect the left wing. The astronauts are not trained or equipped to repair tile damage anywhere on the shuttle, least of all on a relatively inaccessible area like the underside of a wing, Dittemore said." "Because Columbia was in an entirely different orbit than the space station, it did not have enough fuel to fly to the orbiting outpost. Even if the shuttle could have limped there, it could not have docked. Columbia was not equipped with a docking ring since it was never meant to go there. So the shuttle astronauts would have had to float over in spacesuits to get there"   Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 04:16 pm:    Brad, Thought you should know of this discussion. Senator: Concerned Columbia Crew took Pictures of Damaged Left Wing Florida Today.com ^ | Februrary 5, 2003 1:20PM | Staff Wire Report http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/836681/posts Regards, Mark   Mel A. (Krawlrovr) Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 05:44 pm:    I haven't posted in awhile, but i just wanted to say that our school, Amarillo High School, in Amarillo, Texas is having a memorial for Rick Husband, the captain of the Columbia, and the rest of the Columbia crew, this Friday. It supposedly will have national coverage and will be packed full of people. He attended my school, and is on our wall of fame. I remember he came to my middle school 4 years ago to give us a talk in space shuttles, and he did a really cool demonstration using fire (which always gets adolescent pre-teen's attention). On a different note, Texas in some news stations is being portrayed as some old western flick. For instance, I was watching FOX, and they said something along the lines of people from Texas going on horseback to look for debris or something like that. Do people in other parts of the country really think we ride horses?   Brad Russell (Bradnc) Posted on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 05:25 pm:    Mark, thanks for the heads up, but we already knew about that. He sent us that e-mail from space as well (all e-mails Doug got, we got too). The media has jumped all over it trying to get the actual e-mail. Good Morning America called us yesterday asking us to go on and present the e-mail. NASA and the Navy called within a few hours asking (actually telling, almost threatening) us not to give out any more information from the e-mails concerning the wing unless we get clearance from both the Navy and NASA. I can tell you that Dave did tell us that he took pictures of the wing and sent them down so the engineers could take a look at them. That's all I can say for now. Brad   KJ Posted on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 11:10 pm:    Brad, I'm so sorry these kinds of pressures are being brought to bear on your family. It's got to be mind-numbing to deal with the tragic event itself, let alone this other business. I hope everyone can get through what may come in the near future. Karen   Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Posted on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 09:55 am:    Speaks for itself. Air Force imagery confirms Columbia wing damaged Spaceflightnow.com ^ | 02/07/03 | CRAIG COVAULT http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/837858/posts - Mark