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cartner
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 04:36 pm: | 
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I'm planning on going out to nevada and california this summer in the Disco 1 and doing some exploring in the desert for a few days in and around death valley and possible mojave for about a week, and I was wondering how much fuel everyone usually carries for a trip like that, how bad is gasoline to carry? what is a safe amount for an extended period to carry so as to allow me to get to a fueling station and replenish and what kind of availability of fuel is there in those areas, how far apart? This is a question thats been bugging me for some time, and all information is appreciated, Thanks! |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 06:44 pm: |
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Cartner,
First off I am assuming you are GPS equipped and you are not going alone....Before the trip, utilize a map program like Garmin topo / Garmin Metro or Microsoft Atlas.
#1 Plot out your entire planned route or area you want to explore.
#2 Compare total mileage of route (Factor in higher fuel consumption in areas of low range driving) to your vehicles range on a single tank of gas.
#3 Compare your route against locations of towns (with service) and figure out the mileage of these towns from your route.
#4 Take the distance of the farthest town from your route and compare that with Gas Mileage again.
Having done all that, I would carry enough gas to get your vehicle to that town and back. Meaning I would double it for a reserve.
Hope this helps. |
Just Me
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 07:52 pm: |
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Death Valley can be damnably hot in the summer. So hot that your gas boils all day long. So hot that your dog will cry if you put it on the ground. You may not want to be there in the hottest months. The heat can and will kill if it gets a chance. Carry at least 2 gallons of water per person, per day, with significant reserves, and DRINK IT constantly, even if you don't feel thirsty. I'm serious!
Death Valley is a very big park and (as of the last time I was there) has only two operating gas stations. Of those, only one has premium fuel. When I owned a D90, I carried either 7.5 or 12.5 extra gallons of fuel and I was still constantly paranoid. I used the NATO tanks, which are very strong, and I had no problems with leaks or fumes. Just be sure to secure them well - you don't want to get hit by a 40 lb metal missile!
Even with the bigger tank in the Disco, there are a few places that would be very iffy to get to and back without extra fuel. Almost any far-flung place you go will require you to drive back and fill up again. If you wanted to push farther, I would bring 10 extra gallons, which will at least allow you to make some extra side-trips with peace of mind.
With that said, if this is your first time to the park, I think extra fuel isn't really necessary. You will have way more than enough to see and do and you won't feel the need to push it. At most, I would suggest carrying 5 gallons just as a backup.
Outside Death Valley, I don't think extra fuel is necessary.
P.S.: Gas is expensive in the park.
Have fun. |
cartner
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 10:48 pm: |
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So in general a pair of nato jerry cans would be good, in addition to my calculated bingo distance? Thanks guys, that helps more than you know..I probably ought to start figuring out who else would like to go... |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 02:35 pm: |
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In all the times I've gone to Death Valley I've never carried extra fuel and I've never had trouble. Next time I go though I'll be taking fuel as without spare fuel I'm always paranoid about running out. I think 1 20l jerry can would be plenty for Death Valley, personally. Two would definitely be enough to get you to a gas station from anywhere in the park should you actually completely run out of fuel. |
Tim Ballard (Tballard)
| | Posted on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 07:51 pm: |
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FYI - I just got back from Death Valley last weekend and paid $2.26/gal for premium to fill up my 96 D-1 at Furnace Creek. I'm sure it will be more expensive this summer so plan accordingly.
In terms of having enough fuel, I've explored the area 5 or 6 times and only ran low on fuel once, and that was because we arrived and went in late at night and were unable to top off at the last available station. So take into account that most of the places fuel is available will not be open late.
I second the comment above that in Death Valley the distances are large compared to other locations, and you can rack up the miles quickly getting from one place to the next. You do not necessarily need extra fuel, but depending on how long you stay out, you will have to plan your route around fueling stops.
Also remember that while it can be very hot in the valley, there are plenty of places to visit at altitudes of 6,000' and above (e.g. South Park) that will be much cooler.
Its a beautiful place to wheel - have fun! |
cartner
| | Posted on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 08:12 pm: |
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Yeah, we were going to try to camp in a fewer high altitude areas, hopefully in primitive style, but I"m not clear on how legal that is in the park, or roadside for that matter. I will definitely carry at least one large jerry can, probably two, and lots of water (I usually do here in the east anyway, you never know with water). I'm really hoping to spend at least three days, two nights in DV checking it all out, since I've never been in a desert before, let alone had the opportunity to drive around in one...I"m looking forward to it, and again, any information is good as far as I'm concerned with this one. |
cartner
| | Posted on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 08:13 pm: |
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Oh yeah, are the DeLorme topographic maps accurate for that area or is there a better version that I should be using for this, are the trails hard to identify on the ground? |
Just Me
| | Posted on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 02:42 pm: |
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Cartner,
I'll again comment that you should be o.k. without extra fuel, on your first trip or two there, and you may want to do without that hazzard.
The highest elevations are generally on the rim of the park, often sort of "outside" the valley, and in some cases takes much more driving to get to. Even a few thousand feet will help, though. Again, you may want to avoid the hottest months - it's really oppressive. At least don't bring very small children or pets. Some people do like it that way, though. Europeans, in particular, go there in the summer to experience the heat.
I would suggest getting a map specific for Death Valley - it'll just be easier, and it will list the sights better, etc. Most will show the major 4WD trails. Go to "REI" or some other good outdoor store for one. It's hard to get lost there, by the way.
It is usually legal to camp along jeep trails so long as you are at least two miles from the main roads. It is not legal to have fires anywhere except in the organized campsites (though you probably won't want one in the summer!), and it's never legal to gather wood either. It is never legal to drive off-road (the "jeep trails" are o.k.). Check with the park when you pay your fee for the latest regs and road conditions.
Have fun. |
cartner
| | Posted on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 03:10 pm: |
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Thanks for all the help...I'm pretty sure I'll be bringing at LEAST one jerry can, and a way to carry it outside the Rover. That information on the camping is especially useful, thanks again. |
Tim Ballard (Tballard)
| | Posted on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 09:54 pm: |
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Cartner - There are also a number of mining cabins you can stay at (including the infamous Charles Manson ranch), in various parts of the park which I recommend as part of the DV wheeling experience. They usually have accommodations for a fire, so you can enjoy that part of camping as well. E-mail me directly if you are interested in maps/directions to these. |
Just Me
| | Posted on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 08:25 pm: |
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Tim,
I'm not an expert in the history of D.V., but I've never heard that Manson was there. Just which site you are thinking of?
Cartner,
There are indeed several cabins and other old buildings. Aside from a few that are illegal to stay at or camp by (such as in the area around the charcoal kilns), people do stay at them, and the park people seem willing to tolerate that provided you are causing no damage. Fires are not allowed at them either, however.
Although I've stayed in one of them, these days I prefer to camp away from them, simply because they tend to attract visitors, and I go there to be alone. Naturally, if other visitors show up and want to stay, remember that they have as much right to do so as you do.
It is important to respect these sites and leave them untouched or in a better state than you found them. I've been to them often enough to have seen damage done by yahoos, and it's sickening. Some sites will be little more than debris in a decade or two. On the other hand, people usually clean up and pack out trash (theirs and others), sometimes make repairs, and are often nice enought to leave water and food or other supplies behind. A few of the sites are so well cared for by visitors that they may well last nearly forever. Read the comments left in the visitors logs at some of these sites, and add your own.
Cheers. |
cartner
| | Posted on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 08:52 pm: |
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Thats really cool to hear, I think we would definitely game to stay in a site like that, and as a NOLS graduate, I DID learn about packing EVERYTHING in and out and Tread Lightly like its a religion.....I would be very interested in hearing all about the cabins, and GPS coordinates et al, if you care to pass that along. I have both the DeLorme northern, and southern california topographic atlases, and those are the best maps of the area I have at this time. Thanks for all of this great information everyone, very useful. |
Just Me
| | Posted on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 08:53 pm: |
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Hi,
I wanted to add another thing: If you have stock road tires on your truck, be prepared for flats! At a minimum, make sure your tires and spare are in excellent condition and at the right pressure. You may want to bring a pump and repair kit, too.
Personally, I wouldn't venture far off paved roads in the desert without very tough tires such as BFG All-Terrains.
You should check out your truck well before you leave. If you do break down, be patient, and resist the urge to leave your vehicle without very careful consideration.
Cheers. |
cartner
| | Posted on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 09:07 pm: |
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Actually, I was going to ask about that...I have Dunlop mud rovers on the Disco now, but I think I'm going to replace those about a month before this trip with either the BF Goodrich Mud Terrains, or the Goodyear MT/R's....which do you think would be better, rather, which will last longer even after the trip....? |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 09:09 pm: |
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From what little I know, Charles Manson stayed at the Barker Ranch which is on the western edge of Death Valley. He and his "family" of wackos stayed there for a while and this is where he was finally captured. Apparently he was arrested for destroying property or something like that and it wasn't until afterwards that they found out they'd captured a mass murderer and generally creepy guy. |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 09:22 pm: |
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Speaking of tires, too, here's a sort of funny story about my first trip to Death Valley in my Nissan Sentra (car I owned at the time). I decided to go up a 4x4 high ground clearance recommended road figuring if it got too much I'd just turn around. Well a couple miles in a rock slashed my tire. That's when I found out that my donut spare was flat and I had no jack or tire iron. Oops.
Incredibly, just a few minutes later what should drive by but a Nissan pickup truck with the right size of tire wrench. We put on the mostly flat mini-spare and somehow made it out to civilization.
I learned a few lessons from that experience!!! |
Just Me
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 09:13 pm: |
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Cartner,
The desert is very hard on tires. The rocks are very sharp, and there are ridiculously hard and sharp twigs and branches that go into your tread and side-walls like nails, etc.
For the desert, I think the BFG AT's are the way to go. Very tough tire and about the only one I would trust. I've never gotten a flat off road with them. They are reasonably quiet, fairly good on the road, and they will last for 50k miles, too! They are not very good in mud, however, and there are much better tires for road-only use.
Aside from a good spare, bottle jack and lug wrench, you should probably bring a repair kit - a good one - and a heavy duty pump.
Cheers. |
Christian Cartner (Cartner)
New Member
Username: Cartner
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 09:55 pm: |
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Thanks guys, I think I'm going to get the BF Goodrich mud terrain KM's. Thanks for all the help on this, I'm sure I'll find other questions! |
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