| Author | Message | ||
     Greg French (Gregfrench) Senior Member Username: Gregfrench Post Number: 166 Registered: 11-2002 |
I was out with some friends, and we were climbing an old bunker. It was about a 45d angle. I made it up a few times, but then I couldn't anymore. The grass was slick and there was a bit of mud in my tires. What really sucks is one of my friends with a wrangler made it up every time. He even went in reverse a few times. Once, he went in 2wd and made it as far as I did locked. I pointed out that he had bigass mud terrains and I have all terrains. The REALLY bad part is that my other friend has a bone-stock 94 4-runner with street tires. He made it up and over every time! This really pissed me off. I tried everything I could think of, but just couldn't get up. WTF? | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) Advanced member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 356 Registered: 09-2002 |
Greg, One thing to remember...the disco is HEAVY. Probably the reason you made it up the first few times traction. Hills tend to get more slippery, especially if in grass or sand, the more attempst you make. the other vehicles had advantage because of their light weight. It's happened to me to. Drives me nuts. | ||
| Chris browne Unregistered guest |
Greg; is yours D1? Did you lock your center diff? | ||
| Greg French (Gregfrench) advanced member Username: Gregfrench Post Number: 168 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yeah...we decided that was probably it...but what can I do about it? What is the point in owning the best 4x4xfar if other trucks can do things I can't? I DID make it through lots of flat trails that the 4-runner got stuck in. The Wrangler made it through everything with no problems. Big tires and no weight has its advantages. So why are Land Rovers considered to be so good anyway? Why do we brag about being the best 4x4 when a jeep wrangler is (dare I say) better? Gawd...I feel like such a traitor saying that, but I am pissed that they did stuff I couldn't! | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) advanced member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 358 Registered: 09-2002 |
Greg, There is no point. Every vehicle is going to have advantages and disadvantages. If you really want the ultimate 4x4 get at susuki sameri and build it up. The rovers are the best all around in my opinion. They will not be able to do everything that every other vehicle can do but I don't know of another vehicle that could do all the things that a lr can do. Especially when you consider getting to the trail and back. And yes...a wrangler will be better in some areas. I am sure you could find someone to do an even trade with you.  | ||
| Greg French (Gregfrench) advanced member Username: Gregfrench Post Number: 170 Registered: 11-2002 |
No...I don't want to trade. I use my disco as a family vehicle. I have to admit...I have never run out of room to carry things. I can load it down with all of our gear and still take the shortcuts! Besides...it looks WAY Cooler than any Jeep I have seen! Modified Jeeps are everywhere. Most Discos are not, so mine really stands out. Chris...Yes it is a D1 and it was locked. I tried it in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear (5-speed) in both high and low range in different combinations. | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) advanced member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 359 Registered: 09-2002 |
Greg, Here's something to consider. Sometimes, even when the lite is on my diff lock pops out, especially when I am going up a hill. Not very often but occasionally. You might check that out. Plus discos ARE way cooler tahn anything else on the road. | ||
| Greg French (Gregfrench) advanced member Username: Gregfrench Post Number: 173 Registered: 11-2002 |
Brian... Thanks, but it was in. I checked it several times. You mean way cooler than anything except an H2, right? | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) advanced member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 361 Registered: 09-2002 |
lol...i forgot about the h2. | ||
| Kim S (Roverine) Advanced member Username: Roverine Post Number: 394 Registered: 03-2002 |
hehe, I know why you didn't make it up, (  ) but I won't tell unless you guys tell me how to be an "advanced" member, LOL Kim Okay, it was the PSI you were running in tires ... (uh, yeah, that's it, that's the ticket, yeah ...) | ||
| R. B. Bailey (Rover50987) New Member Username: Rover50987 Post Number: 240 Registered: 07-2002 |
go watch a Camel Trophey video with Discovery's, it will make you feel better about your rig - maybe not your driving - but your rig. | ||
| Brad Russell (Bradnc) New Member Username: Bradnc Post Number: 94 Registered: 03-2002 |
i'll have to put my vote up for a G-Wagen...even though I own a D1 like most here... | ||
| Mike B. Unregistered guest |
Where is the challenge if you can make it up everything? Isn't getting there half the fun? Like the other fellas pointed out, each vehicle has it's advantages. Discos excel because the components are way overbuilt and it's very comfortable because of the coil springs. A Disco will go well over the trail, get you there and back in one piece, and last a lifetime. Jeeps can go many more places due to their light weight and short wheel base; sometimes, it's more about physics. Be happy that you have friends with 4 wheel drives that will go out and play with you. Also, you get to learn first hand the strengths and weaknesses of each vehicle. To do better next time, watch how they do it and see what you can learn from them. Also, lowering your tire pressure will definately help in the situation you described. There is no better teacher than failure. Also, don't be too proud to ask for pointers, your friends who are outside you vehicle may be to offer you some suggestions that are not as apparent to you. Happy Rovering! Mike B. | ||
| Greg French (Gregfrench) advanced member Username: Gregfrench Post Number: 175 Registered: 11-2002 |
Mr Bailey...That is exactly what I did! I came home and watched the 95 Camel Trophy video. That always makes me feel good! Mike...You're right. I am glad I have good friends to go with. I am just getting sick of hearing them rag on me about my rig. It is mostly my jeep friend. Secretly he likes it, I know...I just hate it when he can do stuff that I can't. | ||
| Mike B. Unregistered guest |
Greg: Your friends will rag on you because they like you. If they did not like you, they wouldn't bother and they would not keep going out on the trails with you. Stock engines, transmissions, transfer cases, and axles are notoriously weak on Jeeps. Just keep quiet, you will get your chance. Meanwhile, keep practicing your technique and think about getting a better set of tires. Thanks, Mike B. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Advanced member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 99 Registered: 11-2002 |
I would say poor weight distribution, disco's are really rear end heavy when your climbing that tranfers weight away from the front end and makes it not climb as well. big ass winch bumper heavy ass winch and it will climb better. | ||
| Boone Unregistered guest |
I think it's unfair that you are comparing your LR Discovery against a Jeep Wrangler. If you want a better comparison pit the LR D90, SI, SII or SIII against the Jeep Wrangler. I would bet that you would be able to do everything the Wrangler could and more | ||
| Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) New Member Username: Markp Post Number: 123 Registered: 02-2002 |
Greg, Let's not rule out tires. The only mention of tires was bigass mud terrains vs all terrains. Which all terrains do you have? Sounds like they loaded up with slick mud and grass and don't clean out very well. Tires can make all the difference. You can take two vehicles that are the same, but have different tires, and get completely different trail results. - Mark | ||
| Milan (Milan) Member Username: Milan Post Number: 120 Registered: 10-2002 |
"Stock engines, transmissions, transfer cases, and axles are notoriously weak on Jeeps. Just keep quiet, you will get your chance. " Mike B. I'll give you the transfer case (if you're talking the NP231 and maybe some of the axles - actually just the D35), otherwise I'd say keep dreaming. | ||
| Ramsay (3toedsloth) New Member Username: 3toedsloth Post Number: 148 Registered: 07-2002 |
On the subject of wranglers... I rode with one of my buddies this weekend and watched 4-5 wranglers break axle shafts doing things that I'm pretty sure the discovery could have taken no sweat. I think it's probably a give and take situation like everyone else says. You can check out the pics here www.nctacomas.com/ben click on places and then cracker's neck. JR | ||
| phil (Powerslide) Member Username: Powerslide Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2002 |
Greg, Were you going up the hill as fast as you can? In my years of off-roading, I've learned that speed/momentum works against you when tackling steep slippery terrain. Of course a good tire will help but if you have a lesser tire then creeping up should still get you up there. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) New Member Username: Bri Post Number: 172 Registered: 08-2002 |
Greg, Air those tires down. Take the CDL shifter into nuetral then shift over to diff lock side. Will hold much better. When going up use the dual footed technique, use the brakes heavily along with the accelerator. Go as fast as necessary (likely you would dneed to go faster with repeated attempts). If you get frustrated, take a moment, back off and let someone else go while you regroup. With comments on the other threads, I agree about landrover, ability and some overbuilt items. However I have already run into my fair share of under-built stuff on Discos. Brian | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) Member Username: Toddp Post Number: 68 Registered: 10-2002 |
Next time watch your friends brakelights while he climbs. I almost ALWAYS have better luck climbing if I Left Foot Brake a little to add some traction. Last weekend I got stuck going uphill, rolled back a couple feet, applied brake with left foot, and gassed it up. With all 4 wheels having more traction I made it up with minimal tire spinning and LESS momemtum than I had previously. Try it sometime. Just a thought l8r Todd | ||
| Greg French (Gregfrench) advanced member Username: Gregfrench Post Number: 176 Registered: 11-2002 |
Thanks all. My tires are BFG all terrains. Still have lots of good traction left on them. I am not really comparing myself to the Wrangler. What I was really pissed about was the 4-runner. His tires are the stock ones that came on it and are fairly slick. I have the heavy ass winch bumper Musky. Didn't help. Airing down would have helped. I'll try the braking thing. I know they weren't doing it. They were balls to the wall, tires spinning all the way. I don't really understand how braking would help, but I will try it next time. I guess I can take pleasure in the fact that later on, the 4-runner got stuck and had to be pulled out, like, 5 times and I made it through the same places with no problem. | ||
| adtool Unregistered guest |
You need ETC!!!! And was the 'yoda locked? They climb really good, even with stock tires. I saw it first hand at VTXS in Killington. The damn 'yoda made it up a tight hill on stock tires(locked f & r diffs) I only went up anout 3/4's. -Chris | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Senior Member Username: Bri Post Number: 174 Registered: 08-2002 |
Nah, you don't need ETC. I think ETC would matter not at all on this, maybe it would help if you were over applying the throttle and/or already not using the brake. But possibly someone much smarter than me can argue that point. In fact one might guess that people with the ETC may also use the brake (chime in if you wish). In this particular case ('97 Disco w/o ETC), the brake will likely help a lot. My theory is that it makes the 4 wheel drive system think that it has traction at all four corners and thus applies power to the left and right (CDL handling the front-to-back power right). It works well, experiment with how much brake you use. On tough obstacles, you may need to press pretty hard. And don't forget about what this might do to your brake pad life. Can anyone confirm/deny my theory above? | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Advanced member Username: Bri Post Number: 175 Registered: 08-2002 |
Ramsay: Many things come to play with axels. Big vehicle, big tires, lockers and a heavy foot can break stock axels pretty easily (on either vehicle). | ||
| Greg French (Gregfrench) advanced member Username: Gregfrench Post Number: 178 Registered: 11-2002 |
No. He wasn't locked. | ||
| Andrew Clarke (Aclarke) advanced member Username: Aclarke Post Number: 205 Registered: 10-2002 |
Doesn't the brake/accelerator trick essentially do the same thing as ETC? It seems to me that ETC would do a better job than left foot braking, except that it relies on wheelspin. | ||
| Todd Phenneger (Toddp) Senior Member Username: Toddp Post Number: 69 Registered: 10-2002 |
Correct, ETC does the same thing as Left foot braking, but more effectively because it only brakes the spinning tire and not the tire with traction as well. Last week I watched a D2 cross a river and it was evident when the ETC kicked in. Had he not had ETC with his road tires I think he would have been stuck. But evertime he got to an obstacle and a tire would start to spin, all of a sudden the truck would shudder a bit and start moving again. Pretty cool. Anyhow, for those that dont understand whats happening. A VERY quick and dirty explanation. When I tire lifts in the air, its not that "all" the power gets sent to the tire with least traction like people aften say. The same power is going to both wheels. But the TORQUE available to the tire with traction is going to be the same as the TORQUE that it takes to spin that tire thats airborne which is....what...a couple lb/ft. NOt enough to move a 4,500lb truck. THe more traction the lifted tire has the more Torque available to the tire with traction to move the vehicle. Thats why long travel suspension are so nice with an open diff. If you can keep that tire on the ground, even with just a little weight on it, it is often enough to keep you moving up that hill. You need all available engine torque to climb a hill. A Series II does just fine with 1/4 the torque. :-)... So anyhow, by applying the brake, essentially you are increasing the amount of torque required to spin that tire that is airborne. By doing so you also increase the torque going to the tire WITH traction untill there is enough torque to pull you up the hill. Kapish? off to work Todd | ||
| Andrew Clarke (Aclarke) advanced member Username: Aclarke Post Number: 206 Registered: 10-2002 |
Todd: Are you tryin' to say "capiche"? :-) OK here's another question I've been pondering for a few weeks: does the ABS pump on the D1 only have the ability to release braking force on a wheel or can it also apply braking force to a wheel? The disco has 4-channel ABS, right? So it has the ability to release braking power to any individual wheel should it need it. So could the ABS hardware in the D1 also be used to provide braking power to an individual wheel? I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this... | ||
| Ramsay (3toedsloth) Member Username: 3toedsloth Post Number: 149 Registered: 07-2002 |
Brian, The sky is blue. JR | ||
| Mr Smith Unregistered guest |
Greg What springs do you have(especially the rear on a hill climb)? If you have put stiff springs on the truck and try to make a hill climb on irregular terrain = loss of forward momentum. Randall | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2002 |
great thread, now i can conclude that discos ain't the best 4xxfar, and BFG ATs suck. | ||
| phil (Powerslide) Member Username: Powerslide Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2002 |
I agree, our Disco is not the best 4X4xfar and BFG AT's really suck. But I still love my D2. BTW, is the Bridgestone M/T D673 with Uni-T any good for all around wheeling? I am torn between this and the Dunlop R/T. SIze will be 265/75/16's. | ||
| Ho Chung (Thediscoho) Moderator Username: Thediscoho Post Number: 12 Registered: 02-2002 |
greg, you just have to accept the fact that in some places, you just can't beat the little jeep. | ||
| RJ Clayton (Tozovr) New Member Username: Tozovr Post Number: 291 Registered: 09-2002 |
AT's BLOW. I ran them on my last few trucks...the XJ now has TrXus MT's. When running I was always getting schooled because my AT's would pack up....They sure are great when it's dry, and on wet streets but man, in snow, mud slush and anything else, an MT just really out perfroms the AT...BUT at a cost...if you think you might not like the noise or the lessened treadlife don't do it ( if noise is a consideration, then you just might not really NEED an MT LOL!) RJ | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Advanced member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 116 Registered: 11-2002 |
the old ATs where better then the current ones ,the voids are much smaller then they used to be. So now they pack up much more. BFG is looking much more at street markets with these. I still think it has alot to do with weight transfer and the heavy ass end of these trucks. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) New Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 427 Registered: 05-2002 |
Dude - you did not make it up the hill because the physics were against you. It could have been tires, weight, TC devices, or any combination of the above. Rovers are not magic. Neither are Wranglers, 4 Runners, or anything else. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 428 Registered: 05-2002 |
wow | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Senior Member Username: Curtis Post Number: 429 Registered: 05-2002 |
I | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Advanced member Username: Curtis Post Number: 430 Registered: 05-2002 |
Guess | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) advanced member Username: Curtis Post Number: 431 Registered: 05-2002 |
the | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) advanced member Username: Curtis Post Number: 432 Registered: 05-2002 |
way to | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) advanced member Username: Curtis Post Number: 433 Registered: 05-2002 |
increase my | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) advanced member Username: Curtis Post Number: 434 Registered: 05-2002 |
member status is to post a lot of crap | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) advanced member Username: Curtis Post Number: 435 Registered: 05-2002 |
like | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) advanced member Username: Curtis Post Number: 436 Registered: 05-2002 |
this. | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) advanced member Username: Curtis Post Number: 437 Registered: 05-2002 |
God Bless. Curtis | ||
| Chu Y. Son (Cyson) New Member Username: Cyson Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2003 |
Yeah, I've noticed that the disco front end seems to get a lot of lift on the steep stuff. I figure lbs/square inch of rubber is a good basis for raw traction up a hill. I seem to have some poor combos. ETC bashing has died down, now the BFG ATs! What's next? | ||
| Chu Y. Son (Cyson) New Member Username: Cyson Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2003 |
Curtis, I think you got a point. You must have a big mouth, cuz I sure have a long ways to catch your butt. | ||
| Mr Man Unregistered guest |
LR is the best 4X4 by far, but that doesn't mean that you can't modify it so it is less capable in a hill climb. Big tires and/or traction control devices may help you get up a tough hill climb. But the uncomfortable truth is that stiff springs are just going to cause one of the rear tires to break traction. Then most of the vehicle wieght will be on just one rear spring which will cause it't tire to break traction, and then the front wheels will spin. ie, soft springs cause all four wheels to be firmly planted on the ground, stiff springs cause too much or too little weight on each tire, which will then break loose. You need grip on all four wheels to do hill climbs. Sorry to burst anyones bubble. One of the things that I am trying to do is help. And I like to act like I know everything. It's a middle age man thing. Randall |
