| Author | Message | ||
     Brendan Kearns (Howboucha) New Member Username: Howboucha Post Number: 13 Registered: 01-2003 |
This may be one of those "well duh" questions, but I have noticed that when stopped on a slight incline, if I let off the brake the disco will roll back until I either stomp on the brake or throttle (mine is an auto by the way). It goes quick too. Pretty much like it is in neutral. I don't recall any of the other automatic transmission vehicles that I have driven do that. Any insight? Brendan Kearns 95 Disco | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) New Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2003 |
Normally associated with failing CV joints. Guinness for Strength... | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Advanced member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 984 Registered: 02-2002 |
Replace them immediately as you are in the last miles before grenading. If you keep going, you run the risk of the pieces tearing up the inside of the swivel, necessitating replacement of not only the CV joint, but also the swivel housing. Continue driving at your own risk. | ||
| Greg Davis (Gregdavis) New Member Username: Gregdavis Post Number: 616 Registered: 08-2002 |
Hmmm. I have a DII and it does it as well. I was told by my service mgr that the torque converters in the ZF's are allowing the vehicles to roll backwards. It's the combo of weight, etc. None of my other AT vehicles have ever done this. | ||
| hb Unregistered guest |
Hi Perrone, Paul how is a CV joint doing this. It sounds like in normal driving conditions (forward motion) there is no trouble ? hendrik | ||
| Phillip Perkinson (Rover4x4) New Member Username: Rover4x4 Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2003 |
i think they are joking | ||
| Brendan Kearns (Howboucha) Member Username: Howboucha Post Number: 14 Registered: 01-2003 |
I hope its a joke. If so, that's not really funny.  Okay, back to reality. How could it possibly be CV joints? | ||
| Robbie (Robbie) Senior Member Username: Robbie Post Number: 294 Registered: 02-2002 |
i hope they are joking. mine has been doing this for the past three years (40k+ miles). no unusual sounds or occurrences other than it rolls back, while in gear, on a decent incline. | ||
| Brendan Kearns (Howboucha) Member Username: Howboucha Post Number: 15 Registered: 01-2003 |
Okay, I will just assume it is normal. I need to make sure that I am aware of the person behind me so that I don't roll back into them accidentaly.  The Scene. I am stopped at a light on a slight incline. I start to bump and groove to some Jay Z. A Pinto is directly behind me: Fade in....... Pinto Driver: "Oh my god, that Land Rover is rolling towards us, he's going to hit us Marge" Marge: "Go ahead and let him, he has to be rich. This is our chance to finally pay off our trailer and get that double wide your momma has told us about" Pinto Driver: "Gee whiz honey, you are right. Make sure you grab your neck when he hits us" BAMM!!!!!!Crunch!!!!!! Me: I am very sorry good people about my very expensive Land Rover rolling backwards over your Pinto. Are you okay?" Pinto Driver: "Hell no, my wife is hurt. Can't you see her holding her neck? She is in pain." Me: "Wow, I am so sorry about your wife. She sure is pretty though" Marge: "Oh the pain, oh the pain. I think my liver hurts too. Oh the pain" Pinto Driver: "Not only is my wife hurt, I will have to fix my Pinto. Do you know how hard it is to get parts. I will have to go to England" Cop to me: "Looks like you have a problem with your CV joints failing. You know, Perrone and Paul once said on Discoweb.org that failing CV joints will prevent accidents like this. You should really check discoweb.org out." Me: "Thanks Mr Cop. I will make sure to research my CV joints some more because I never ever want to injure nice people like Pinto Driver and Marge. End of story. | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) New Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 2 Registered: 02-2003 |
http://www.atlanticbritish.com/techtips_main.html Drive Train - Troubleshooting Vehicle - Range Rover We had a vehicle with an interesting problem. When in park, the vehicle would slowly roll down an incline. Initially, it appeared to be a problem with the transmission but upon further investigation, it turned out to be a bad front CV joint. The problem would look the same as if the vehicle had a broken rear axle. Because the Range Rover has a full time four-wheel drive, the problem is not as obvious as one might expect. The underlying problem was a lack of 90 wt. Lubricant in the swivel ball. The front differential is often serviced, but the oil in the swivel ball also needs to be checked separately. There is an inner oil seal which prevents the oil from the differential/axle casing from moving into the outer portion or swivel ball on the front axle. Because the swivel ball seals can leak, it is critical that the swivel ball seals be checked. We recommend at least twice per year. This simple maintenance check can save you big dollars in repairs. ... Maybe Atlantic British was just joking. Guinness for Strength... | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) advanced member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 372 Registered: 09-2002 |
This is true. If your cv is broken the truck will roll backwards, but if your cv is broken the truck will not go either. (unless you are in diff lock) I don't think it is your cv..my personal opinion in dealing with broken axles and cv. Probably your transmission. | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) advanced member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 985 Registered: 02-2002 |
OK fellas, I was not joking. When my brother in law's Rangie began to do this, we prepared for a rebuild. In the amount of time it took for the parts to arrive (thanx P!), what was left of the cage exploded and the balls floating around in the swivel chewed up the inside of the swivel housing to the extent that we needed to replace the swivel housing. It eventually got so bad that the parts rubbing up against the ABS exciter ring sounded like a siren, then, it locked up as it was being driven into the shop! Think about the situation. If you have one wheel that is not holding the vehicle from moving it can then freewheel. Same thing that happens when you jack the vehicle up and can turn (rotate) one wheel, but not the other. I know that isn't a good explanation, but it's the best I can do right now. I had some pics of what happens, but can't find them there now-damned club websites. It really is an indicator of failure. As for the DII, I can't comment as the setup is completely different and more reminiscent of a current GM vehicle, rather than a traditional Rover. Paul Bearer of bad news. | ||
| Milan (Milan) Advanced member Username: Milan Post Number: 123 Registered: 10-2002 |
Perrone & Paul, I think he was talking about rolling back while in forward gear and stopped at a light. It's normal that the converter won't hold the Disco on slight incline. My suggestion is: When stopped at a light keep your foot on the brake. You should be doing this with a manual also, so I don't see why this would be a problem. On a related note (not that you do this) - I absolutely love (NOT) people who come to a stop extremely slowly and well ahead of their stop line and then keep creeping forward while waiting for the light to change. Sometimes I have an idiot in front of me create 2 car lengths worth of space between himself and me and by the time the light changes, he's crawling on the tailgate of the vehicle in front. Geeez. | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) advanced member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 986 Registered: 02-2002 |
OK, let's back up and do some experimenting. Brendan: Find a healthy incline. Place vehicle in park, take foot off brake. If vehicle rolls backwards with an attendant clicking noise, it is a bad CV joint that WILL explode if not corrected. Have you checked the level of oil in your swivels? I have, mine are full... Peace, Paul | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Advanced member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 111 Registered: 11-2002 |
mercedees are famous for this....its a ZF thing the idle gets a little low the car stops holding while in gear on a hill.dosent need to be much a 100rpm low will do it. if it rolls in park is what paul is talking about | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) advanced member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1343 Registered: 04-2002 |
Not to get off topic here but I didn't think Mercedes used ZF transmissions. I thought they were the only company who still built their own or am I thinking of the Mercedes Manual transmissions (not available in the US)? | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) advanced member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 503 Registered: 02-2002 |
ok, this now has me concerned as my RR does this in the garage when put into park. slight decline in the garage. it drifts backwards a little before "catching". usually feather the brake to ease it back. always thought it was a transmission related deal. no clicking and for sure the swivels have lubricant in them. 1 grease and 1 oil just as an experiment. recently have had the seals replaced and the LR doc said the CVs were ok. what do you all think?? Jaime | ||
| Brendan Kearns (Howboucha) Member Username: Howboucha Post Number: 16 Registered: 01-2003 |
Looks like I started a good one here! But nobody commented on my great little story. Good points from all. I had a CV joint go bad (left front wheel). It got water in the housings (how did that happen, can you say too many creek crossings?) and didn't realize that I needed to check the fluid in the balls. You see, I realized the hard way that if your fluid in your balls is bad, it can cause problems. $1300 doolers later it was fixed. I will try the put it in park test. I hope it is okay. I have a bad VSS (self diagnosed by discoweb info) and I have a part on order (Thanks Nathan!). Is there a chance that the engine is not reving strong enough to hold the disco "in place" on an incline because the VSS is bad? B.K. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Advanced member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 112 Registered: 11-2002 |
MB uses ZF's in there auto's starting in like 77 up thru current models not sure about the manuals?...damn I think they sold like 3 or 4 total..lol | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) advanced member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 505 Registered: 02-2002 |
musky, don't forget about the 240Ds that had manuals. also think the early 4 cylinder 190s had a manual option. but yeah, MBs didn't really market a manual too much here. Jaime | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Advanced member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 113 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jaime, very tongue in cheek the 89 300e came with a 5 speed and it took 1.5 seconds off the 0-60...but that was a getreg 5 speed not made by MB yeathe 240Ds did have stick they where slow but went foreve ok I now return this thread to it rightful owner | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) advanced member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 373 Registered: 09-2002 |
The truck will roll backwards a bit after you put it in park if you did not set the e-brake first, put trans. in neutral, let off foot brake, then put in park. The truck will roll backwards forever if cv or axle or drive shaft is broken when you put it in park and don't set the e-brake. (no diff lock) If you put the vehicle in p with out the e-brake and it rolls backwards you have something broken FOR SURE. No doubt about it. If you put it in park and it stays you may have something broken or you may not, but probably not. If you let off on the gas in d and it rolls back but you give it gas and then it goes forward you may have something broken but it might only be your sunroof or rear window or your seat controll, but it is probably not your cv joint. btw...,I laughed at the story. very plausable. | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) advanced member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1345 Registered: 04-2002 |
Musky, I drove a C180 in the EU with a 5 speed. It was bad... very bad but with the little engine I was glad it was a manual and not a slush box. There were lots of MB's there with manuals and I think 90% of the cabs were MB's and most had manuals. BTW- I have a Getrag 6 speed in my other car and that's one nice transmission. ... now back to our regular program... | ||
| Robbie (Robbie) Advanced member Username: Robbie Post Number: 295 Registered: 02-2002 |
ok, so it is possible cv issues only if it is in park and rolls back correct? mine only rolls back if it is in gear (D, 3, 2, 1) on an incline, so that is normal? again, been like this for quite awhile, swivels checked regularly and have fluid (95 DI) | ||
| Brian Friend (Brianfriend) advanced member Username: Brianfriend Post Number: 374 Registered: 09-2002 |
Robbie....in my not so expert opinion...I think you are fine. | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) advanced member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 988 Registered: 02-2002 |
And we wonder why folks are constantly harping on me about worst case scenarios! At least, Perrone made the same comments:-). If your vehicle rolls backwards when in gear and at idle, it is merely the fact that the engine speed does not exceed the stall speed of the torque converter. Paul Apologetically running for cover | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) New Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2003 |
DOH! Guinness for Strength... | ||
| Robbie (Robbie) advanced member Username: Robbie Post Number: 296 Registered: 02-2002 |
whew, ok, thanks for the clarification! | ||
| Brendan Kearns (Howboucha) Member Username: Howboucha Post Number: 17 Registered: 01-2003 |
You guys are great! I love Discoweb! I found a slight incline last night (a Yugo in a parking lot) and put it in park. It held just fine. Here is the irony. When I just stopped on the incline with it in drive, I let off the gas and it held just fine. I tapped the pedal and let off, repeating this several times and same deal, held fine. I have a theory now. My gear selector sometimes doesn't "Lock" firmly in position. For example when it is in drive I can occasionally rock it back and forth ever so slightly until it clicks in. The same happens in Drive 3. I need to do my incline test again when it is in this position. Maybe that is causing my goofy situmation, or maybe it is nothing at all. It snowed again this morning in Indiana, I am having so much fun with my Disco in the snow. Brendan Howboucha.com (Indiana Off Road and Motorcycle site) Stromtrooper.com (Suzuki V-Strom) | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) advanced member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 990 Registered: 02-2002 |
Brendan: Sorry to have misled you at first. I'm up in Fort Wayne and we have gotten very little snow, it's not much fun. What's the status of Red Bird? Peace, Paul | ||
| Brendan Kearns (Howboucha) Member Username: Howboucha Post Number: 18 Registered: 01-2003 |
Howboucha Paul! You didnt mislead me at all. You educated me on what could have caused this and I am positive that all others gained from the experience too. That is what I love so much about the internet. It is a fantastic resource and a wealth of information. Forums like this make it incredible. Just think, I don't have to buy a manual, I have discoweb! Damn I am glad you asked about Red Bird. I have been working on Red Bird since 92 when I was on the Indiana Trails Advisory board. It's about 25 minutes from my house in "Mayberry of the Midwest" Clay City! It will be open in June of 2003 I posted a story about Red Bird that was in Linton's newspaper today on my website. http://www.howboucha.com You can find it in the forums and news section (Same message board that d-web uses) and it is in the Off-Road section-Riding Areas. To see some photos at Red Bird, go to: http://www.howboucha.com/redbird1.htm and check out my pinzguaer photos. Man I miss that truck. Here are more photos: http://www.howboucha.com/nationaltrails.htm This picture is the "bomb" http://www.howboucha.com/rbbk2.jpg I love having full lock diffs: http://www.howboucha.com/rbbk1.jpg If you want to go wheeling there, shoot me a note. I have "special permission" and I have the official DNR stickers that can go on my disco. Now that will cause a stir. Indiana has no money but they have DNR issued Land Rovers. Hmmmmm, maybe I better leave the stickers off. A small group of us will be exploring the Lynville area (Near Evansville) soon. Do you want me to let you know when? Brendan Howboucha.com Stromtrooper.com | ||
| Corey Shuman (One_bad_rover) New Member Username: One_bad_rover Post Number: 66 Registered: 09-2002 |
K. Im going to ask the idiot question of the day, how do you check and or replace the oil in your swivels?? Thanks!!! | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) advanced member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 992 Registered: 02-2002 |
Corey: Depending upon the year of your truck, there may be three or two pipe plugs on the swivel housing for either filling, draining, or checking the level of the oil, If you have a series II Disco, you don't have wet swivels. The plug that is about on the center line of the axle is the level plug. To replace, pull the bottom plug-if you have one, later year series Is didn't have the drain plug. When filling, turn the wheel away from the vehicle, replace drain plug, remove both other plugs annd fill 'til oil comes out the level plug. Turn the wheel away to fill easier, otherwise, the hole is obscured by swivel ball-you'll see what I mean! Brendan: Damn Skippy I want to know when you're going! Peace, Paul | ||
| Milan (Milan) Advanced member Username: Milan Post Number: 126 Registered: 10-2002 |
Brendan, When it's cold outside, it will hold better in D,3,2,1 as the oil is thicker. Let it warm up and then try it. | ||
| Enoch Snyder (Esnyder) New Member Username: Esnyder Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2002 |
My 95, after running under load, will not stay engaged in park, with the clicking sound described above. I have assumed, and have been told, this was the parking pawl not engaging for some reason. (spring bad, something expanding when it gets really hot, who knows.) I have changed grease/fluid in CVs, replaced the odd one, etc. with no change in this issue. I think some of the above posts may have been describing separate phenomena. As far as it rolling backwards when in drive, at a light, on a hill, welcome to a heavy truck with an automatic transmission, I guess. | ||
| hb Unregistered guest |
Got it ... = Perrone is talking about a RANGE Rover with BORG-WARNER transfer box that uses a VISCO-UNIT (this vehicle could do as formerly described with a broken CV). OTH this topic is in the Discovery section. The Discos have the LAND ROVER transfer box with the open centre diff. This will not behave like that with the failing CV. hendrik | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) New Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2003 |
hb, In this instance, how would the open center in the disco behave differently than the viscous unit in the rr? | ||
| Corey Shuman (One_bad_rover) Advanced member Username: One_bad_rover Post Number: 73 Registered: 09-2002 |
cool beans!! Thanks for the info Paul...one last question..what kind of oil are you dumping in there...just gear oil?? |
