| Author | Message | ||
     Paul Grant (Paulgrant) Advanced member Username: Paulgrant Post Number: 141 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ok, I have the cyber caveman's equivalent of a computer, which is to say it is S L O W beyond you're worst imagination. Thus, I have started a new thead in the hopes that it might load a bit faster. Otherwise, I'm going to find myself restricted to posting at 3 am. So, Mark, Tom, Karen, Paul and the rest of you, would you be kind enough to move the discussion over here! Thanks, Paul  | ||
| Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Advanced member Username: Markp Post Number: 127 Registered: 02-2002 |
Paul, It was getting long. But DiscoWeb is also reallllly slowwwww. As for Iraq/Al-Qaeda, I think all will find this discussion interesting: FLASHBACK: Iraq/Al Qaeda Connection, As Reported By Janes Janes.com ^ | 9/19/2001 | Janes Foreign Report http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/840890/posts - Mark | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) advanced member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1198 Registered: 02-2002 |
Paul & Karen, I think that Saddam is still an issue to worry about. Believe me, I am all for reaching out and touching those who provoke us.  However, by going at it alone or just with the Brits will turn us into an outsider in the UN's as well as the world's eyes. No matter how bad the French piss us off, we have to work together at some level. Eric, In reference to your comment on how many Americans it will take before we decide to act: We could turn Iraq into a glass parking lot tomorrow and erect WaWa's and 7-11's on that same glass. However, that is not going to stop a "united" muslim from the Phillipines or Columbia (etc) from dropping a WOMD on middle America. Disclaimer: I am not getting soft. I am not a Democrat and I am not selling the Pig for a Micro Bus. | ||
| John Moore (Jmoore) advanced member Username: Jmoore Post Number: 359 Registered: 10-2002 |
Off topic, but what does the word "Al Qaeda" translate into? I don't think I've ever heard anybody say... | ||
| Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Advanced member Username: Markp Post Number: 128 Registered: 02-2002 |
Friday should be interesting: UK TIMES: Non, mon General The Times ^ | February 12, 2003 | The Times http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/841028/posts " .... The response to Iraq will define world politics for years to come. M Chirac has entered the final stretch of the diplomatic confrontation with Saddam Hussein with no obvious exit strategy. He is most likely to start searching for one if Britain and the US make clear that they intend to press ahead speedily with a second resolution. They should do so even if the result is a French veto — a veto that would be disastrous for the Security Council, but suicidal for France’s influence in the world. ...." - Mark | ||
| ed hart (Adifferentedh) New Member Username: Adifferentedh Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2002 |
So Eric did you enlist? Or are you home trying to build the perfect oven for the "Ass Wranglers" ? | ||
| KJ (Karen) Senior member Username: Karen Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2002 |
Paul Grant said (on the previous thread with a similar name): "Karen, it's sounds like your father-in-law is one hell of a man, a truly fine citizen." Paul I can't tell you how much I love and admire this man. It's fascinating that in the 25 years I've known him I've heard about his test pilot experiences, his time abroad, many varied stories EXCEPT for his Viet Nam years. Not a syllable on those years of his life. He was a Base Commander for the second year I think. He's an amazingly tolerant person, too, which you might not expect from a person from his background and vocation. Paul Morgan said, "Disclaimer: I am not getting soft. I am not a Democrat and I am not selling the Pig for a Micro Bus." Paul, by 2008 we'll have you voting for Hillary.....ROTFLOL! Karen | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Senior member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1199 Registered: 02-2002 |
Whoa Karen Whoa! I haven't had coffee yet and you threw that at me. I think I need medication now. Hillary Rodam Clinton, she's French right?  | ||
| Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Advanced member Username: Markp Post Number: 129 Registered: 02-2002 |
Some humor for the morning Pictures of new inspectors to be appointed by France, Germany & Russia 11 February 2003 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/840836/posts | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Senior member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1200 Registered: 02-2002 |
Very Nice Mark. | ||
| Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Advanced member Username: Markp Post Number: 131 Registered: 02-2002 |
I have a very long meeting to go to. Found this early this morning. It's a long read as is the discussion following it. Why I Became a Conservative: A British liberal discovers England's greatest philosopher. FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | Wednesday, February 5, 2003 | By Roger Scruton http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/836210/posts It can also be found at Arts and Letters Dailey: http://www.aldaily.com/ but the discussions at FreeRepublic that follow the letter are important also. - Mark | ||
| Greg (Gparrish) advanced member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1016 Registered: 04-2002 |
So, what are we going to do then? | ||
| Greg (Gparrish) advanced member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1017 Registered: 04-2002 |
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| Greg (Gparrish) advanced member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1018 Registered: 04-2002 |
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| Greg (Gparrish) advanced member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1019 Registered: 04-2002 |
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| Greg (Gparrish) advanced member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1020 Registered: 04-2002 |
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| Greg (Gparrish) advanced member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1021 Registered: 04-2002 |
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| Tom Rowe (Trowe) New Member Username: Trowe Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2003 |
Paul, I'm a liberal? Damn, always called myself a conservative. I believe in conserving our money, our environment, our people and their lives, our sanity, our good name...oh well, live and learn ;-) I'll take a look at the sites, though some I already knew about. For the readers in general... For the record, I've never advocated "doing nothing". In fact, I've been thinking about it, and as opposed as I am to a premptive strike, it MAY be the only option. However, I seriously doubt I'll ever be ok with it and not oppose it. And no matter what, I can't accept a unilateral attack unless another country has been attacked. (I'm pretty sure a unilateral strike during Iraq's invasion of Kuwait would have been ok with me) There is a way that Bush and his gang could get me to swallow my bile and accept a premptive strike. If Donald Rumsfeld and the like would publicly, in a national news conference with Bush, stand before the nation and admit their complicity in making Saddam the danger he is today. Then Bush step to the mic and tell us how he is requesting from a congress a LAW to prohibit any such activities in the future. That's one of the things that gripes me the most about this situation. It's to easy. We, as a nation, provide conventional, chemical, biological or nuclear materials to a country and act all supprised when the psychotic we gave them too turns and bites us in the ass. Then we get all offended, act like we are the poor innocent bystander and smash them. | ||
| Greg (Gparrish) advanced member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1022 Registered: 04-2002 |
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| Greg (Gparrish) advanced member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1023 Registered: 04-2002 |
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| Greg (Gparrish) advanced member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1024 Registered: 04-2002 |
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| Tom Rowe (Trowe) New Member Username: Trowe Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2003 |
Greg, every one of the cartoons made me laugh. See, I'm not a lost cause ;-) | ||
| Blue (Bluegill) advanced member Username: Bluegill Post Number: 1870 Registered: 02-2002 |
I expected the "Pictures of new inspectors to be appointed by France, Germany & Russia" to be the 3 "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" monkeys...but the pics in the link were funny nonetheless. | ||
| Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Advanced member Username: Markp Post Number: 132 Registered: 02-2002 |
Sept 11th Anthrax - Silica Weaponization confirmed in Daschle anthrax AFIP ^ | 2/12/03 | AFIP http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/841386/posts "“Silica prevents the anthrax from aggregating, making it easier to aerosolize. Significantly, we noted the absence of aluminum with the silica. This combination had previously been found in anthrax produced by Iraq.” | ||
| Greg (Gparrish) advanced member Username: Gparrish Post Number: 1030 Registered: 04-2002 |
Glad I could help, Tom................ | ||
| Paul Grant (Paulgrant) Advanced member Username: Paulgrant Post Number: 143 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hi Mark, Leave it to you to post from another of my favorite sites, Arts and Letters Daily. Scruton' piece was extremely enjoyable and Edmund Burke, well what can you say about a philosopher who wrote in his "Reflections on the Revolution in France" the "a woman is but an animal, and an animal not of the hightest order." What an enlightened thinker! Oh, and let's not get into any 'relativism' by attempting to excuse his perspective because of the times he lived in. I'll grant you that Burke's eloquence was unsurpassed however if we were to live in a world that evolved at he rate he was comfortable with we'd be arguing over taxes with the King of England and not George Bush! To my way of thinking, the invisible hand moves all too slowly if at all let alone in the proper direction. Burke's reason might have been enough for Scruton but I'm afraid it leaves me cold. But, I don't think're surprised at my opinion. Nontheless, a great post, one I hope a number of DiscoWebbers took the time to read and consider. I'll tell you something else, that post regarding anthrax and the discussion that followed was facinating. I think I was up past 1 am reading all the links that went along with the discussion. Keep posting these links because, as Michael Corleone said in The Godfather Part 2, 'keep your friends close and your enemies closer.' Now, regarding all of the lastest Hussein/Bin Laden developments I just wonder how Bush got Bin Laden to go to work for him in selling the linkage of Al Qaeda with Iraq? The timing was impeccable as were the simultaneous agreements of both Tenent and Mueller regarding Iraq's state sponsored terrorism. Gosh, it seems as though those two were totally out of the loop until a day or two ago. The Mighty Wurlitzer is playing at a feverish pitch these days. Cheers, Paul | ||
| KJ (Karen) Senior member Username: Karen Post Number: 25 Registered: 02-2002 |
Paul, I think I can say something about Edmund Burke. I'd call him a chauvanistic scrotum-sucking genital wart, and in my house he'd DEFINITELY be hard up! LOL! Karen | ||
| Paul Grant (Paulgrant) Advanced member Username: Paulgrant Post Number: 146 Registered: 10-2002 |
Karen, OUCH!!! And to think, I would have used most that description for Ann Coulter. But hey, what do I know, according to her I'm just a dumb liberal. | ||
| KJ (Karen) Senior member Username: Karen Post Number: 31 Registered: 02-2002 |
Paul, I was only going on the basis of your quote (G). Karen | ||
| Blue (Bluegill) Senior member Username: Bluegill Post Number: 1893 Registered: 02-2002 |
There are three essentials to leadership: humanity, clarity, and courage. Humanely practicing the virtues of the Way promotes the influence of the teaching, pacifies those in both high and low positions, and delights those who pass by. Someone with clarity follows proper behavior and just duty, recognizes what is safe and what is dangerous, examines people to see whether they are wise or foolish, and distinguishes right and wrong. The courageous see things through to their conclusion, settling them without doubt. They get rid of whatever is wrong or false. Humanity without clarity is like having a field but not plowing it. Clarity without courage is like having sprouts but not weeding. Courage without humanity is like knowing how to reap but not how to sow. When all three of these are present, the community thrives. When one is lacking, the community deteriorates. When two are lacking the community is in peril, and when there is not one of the three, the way of leadership is in ruins. -letter to Master Jingyin Tai, Song dynasty, 10th to 13th centuries, China | ||
| BW (Bwallace35) New Member Username: Bwallace35 Post Number: 20 Registered: 07-2002 |
Ponder this. Bush declared war against terrorism. Bush lays his cross hairs on Iraq. Many people ask, "Why Iraq?" They have not bombed us. They do not share the same beliefs of Bin Laden and his outfit. So why Iraq? Obviously, Iraq poses no serious conventional military threat against the U.S. or even its neigbors today . . . thanks to the U.S. No one really believes, including the Bush administration, that Saddam is about to send thousands of liters of deadly toxins to wipe out major metro areas in the U.S. So what kind of threat does Iraq pose to the U.S. you might still ask? Try not to ask this question. Try and approach it from this point of view . . . What would the U.S. gain by removing the Iraqi dictator. Is it fair to say that most of those bad weapons would be deystroyed? Fair to say that terrorist would not be able to shop for these weapons in Iraq? Fair to say that terrorist could no longer feel protected in Iraq? Would it be fair to say that if we didn't remove all of those weapons of mass destruction that it is higly likely that one day they will fall in the hands of bad guys who will strike our mother land once more? Ya see . . . I think that if we do not eliminate those weapons, it is just a matter of time before we get a taste of what Saddams evil scientists have been cooking up. War should be the last resort, but If Saddam can continue to dodge and deceive the UN, why would he give up? Come on guys . . . some of you may not like Bush's tough talk . . . but if Saddam doesn't genuinely feel like there is no way out, then he will continue to act ignorant and not cooperate. Iraq is a concern to me for sure, but what REALLY disturbs me is our goverments failure to prepare it's citizens for future terrorist attacks. Why haven't our first responders in major metro areas been issued chemical suits? I think this issue worries me more than Iraq. Regardless what happens in Iraq, we will get attacked again and likely soon. Our government has done very little to protect its people. I realize it takes time, but if we haven't properly equipped our first responders with the right tools and clothing in every major metro area before we send the first round down range, we have been seriously let down. BW | ||
| Paul Grant (Paulgrant) Advanced member Username: Paulgrant Post Number: 147 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hi BW, You make an extremely important point with regard to first responders. Keep in mind, also, that in many cases, because of reductions in federal funding due to budgetary constraints local governments have been force to freeze and in some cases reduce police, fire and other emergency services. In NYC several fire brigades are being eliminated and the police have a freeze on hiring. What ever happened to the funding Bush promised these heroes in the wake of 9/11? Not only are we stretched thin due to financial constraints but also, with mobilization of military reserves, we have dramatically reduced the number of first responders available. Many reservists who have been actvated are among the police, fire and other emergency services that wuold be called on during a terrorist strike of any magnitude. With broad mobilization of military reserves to fight a war like the one we are preparing to wage in Iraq, where do we turn to replace all these first responders? This also leads me to the question I posed to you in an earlier thread regarding what we are willing to pay to adequately fight this was on terrorism? If we keep cutting taxes and increasing deficits to record levels (sometime next week we are going to reach the debt ceiling which I seem to recall being $5.6 trillion) we are going to wear out our financial capacity to defend ourselves. We're on the road to eclipsing the levels of debt we found so onerous twenty years ago and that is without factoring in the cost of this war or any future wars we might find necessary to fight. Where is the fiscal restraint, the responsibility? In the words of Edmund Burke, I ask, what about the contract we have with future generations? We need to make real, responsible choices because every one we make has profound impact not only on our present circumstances but on those of our children as well. While we engage in a perpetual war against terrorism it is important to remember the kind of society we are fighting for. Are we fighting for an America where wealth and opportunity are held more firmly in the hands of fewer and fewer? Current concentrations of wealth have only been topped twice before in our history (the late 1890's and 1920's). Currently, some 40 million Americans are without healthcare in a couny that likes to believe it has the best system in the world. Infant mortality rates are among the highest in western industrialized nations. Our senior citizens, some of whom fought bravely in presious wars for our freedom are being forced to go to Canada to get their prescriptions filled because Medicare doesn't have adequate provisions for medicines. Don't even get me started on the awful ways we have cut back on healthcare for veterans! We have one of the highest poverty rates compared to the nations of 'old Europe.' Our schools are crumbling and funding just keeps getting gutted. What is left of any security net for the poor and unfortunate is in tatters. There is something VERY wrong with this picture. If we are truly a fair and just country, a country truly rooted in Judeo-Christian values we must look at ourselves and our actions very closely. I say this because we must be careful to remain an America worth fighting for otherwise terror, which manifests itself in many guises, will be victorious. Cheers, Paul | ||
| Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Member Username: Markp Post Number: 136 Registered: 02-2002 |
Paul - some excellent thoughts. I'll need to write up mine later. France and Germany - Ah yes - follow the money ... Germany - Germans are at it agin. New York Times prints article indicating sale of chemical precursor for Sarin gas sold to North Korea http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/845952/posts Wonder who their other customers are? SCHRODER COVERED UP IRAQI SMALLPOX STOCKPILING Frankfurter Allgemeiner Zeitung /Andrew Sullivan ^ | Feb 17, 2003 | In German w/translations http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/845494/posts And France: Mark Steyn: It's not really about Saddam National Post (Canada) ^ | 02/14/03 | Mark Steyn http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/843085/posts - Mark | ||
| Jens Störmer (Jenzz) New Member Username: Jenzz Post Number: 21 Registered: 08-2002 |
I would like to ask a question: did anybody think about what happens with irak after a occupation? Please read this, written by a british veteran: http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/co/14193/1.html | ||
| Blue (Bluegill) Senior member Username: Bluegill Post Number: 1911 Registered: 02-2002 |
did anybody think about what happens with irak after a occupation? yeah, the people won't have to eat mud pies shaped to look like the exalted saddam anymore. | ||
| Dan Watson (Dwatson) New Member Username: Dwatson Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2003 |
Found this on another site today. “DO NOT FORGET” I sat in a movie theater watching “Schindler's List,”asked myself, "Why didn't the Jews fight back? " Now I know why. I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself, “Why weren't we prepared?” Now I know why. Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people. On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed themselves to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they did not comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors. On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because too many Americans naively reject the reality that some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others. Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel want us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the bravery of the rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They implore us to understand the motivation of the perpetrators. Major television stations have announced they will assist the healing process by not replaying devastating footage of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers. I will not be manipulated. I will not pretend to understand. I will not forget. I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to kick our country when it was vulnerable and hurting. I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark, “No matter how you feel about him, he is still our president.” I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned President Bush's motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington. " And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely – nor should they be expected -- to show deference. " I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an attack on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of America. I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem communications. I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those perfected by the previous administration. I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like the silly "Have your bags been under your control? " question at the airport. I will not be influenced by so called, "antiwar demonstrators" who exploit the right of expression to chant anti-American obscenities. I will not forget the moral victory handed the North Vietnamese by American war protesters who reviled and spat upon the returning soldiers, airmen, sailors and Marines. I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose reassurance over reality. I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered not 7, 000 but 70, 000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it? There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must!" I will force myself to: --hear the weeping --feel the helplessness --imagine the terror --sense the panic --smell the burning flesh -- experience the loss -- remember the hatred. I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself, "Where did they find the courage? " Now I know. We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living. -- Ed Evans, MGySgt. , USMC (Ret.) | ||
| Curtis N (Curtis) Senior member Username: Curtis Post Number: 256050 Registered: 05-2002 |
I believe this is likely the most intelligent thread I have read on Dweb. That being said, let me throw this out: Many of the posts here tend to mirror the public opinion on the reasons why we will be going to war. These reasons are justified because they are what we are told by the powers that be. However true these reasons may or may not be, I do not think they get to the heart of the matter. The real reasons for war (IMO) are even harder to defend in the court of public opinion. The main benefit of attacking Iraq is that it reduces our dependence on Saudi Arabia. The Hause of Saud has come under increasing pressure from the Wahibi tribes. If they do not appease these traditionally anti-American tribes they stand a good chance of losing control of thier country. The Wahibi tribes oppose any American presence in Saudi Arabia and have limited the Prince Sultan air base to near-ineffectiveness. As a step to control stability in the region, it is vital the the US maintans a forward military presence in the region. While we have been stepping up efforts in Quatar and North Africa, these locations are not large enough nor central enough to maintain the forces that will be required. They also do not carry the clout in the way of assets to be considered major strongholds. The hope is that a post-Saddam Iraq will be very Western friendly and give us more credit in the region. It will also give a chance for the modernization of the Middle East through the introduction of a democratic form of government. This is vital since out of 22 Arab nations all are various forms of monarchy. All of that set aside, the reasons for just war were laid out over a decade ago in the agreements for ending the Gulf War. The UN, France, Russia, Germany, and a host of other countries have basically aided Iraq in being able to defy the original resolutions. They did this out of greed and now are defending it in the name of peace. If anything, thier willingness to aid Iraq in NOT comlying with the original agreements just goes to prove how ineffective the UN truly is. So I say: to hell with the UN. We have proof for just war without being physically attacked simply based on violation of the original agreements to end the Gulf War. If this justification will ultimately lead to a better, stronger, more stable, and Western friedly Middle East then lets do it. Curtis | ||
| Steve Andrews (Sillybus) Member Username: Sillybus Post Number: 177 Registered: 08-2002 |
I believe the accepted translation for Al Qaeda is "The Foundation". I understand its one of those things that can be interpretted in more than one way but in following with Bin Laden's philosopy, that seems to be more in line. | ||
| Paul Grant (Paulgrant) Member Username: Paulgrant Post Number: 158 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mark, I just brought this thread back up to the surface so that you could reread my last post and hopefully provide your thoughts with regard to the issues mentioned. Cheers, Paul | ||
| Blue (Bluegill) Senior Member Username: Bluegill Post Number: 1982 Registered: 02-2002 |
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20030304-9060681.htm so how much more time should we give saddam to "work towards peace"? | ||
| Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Senior Member Username: Gregdavis Post Number: 697 Registered: 08-2002 |
Now Blue, you know that if we sat all these people down at a table and spoke reasonably with them, we could get them to stop. I mean, afterall, they'll listen to reason, and they know that violence isn't the answer. Who needs war when you can talk it out and solve the problem. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Member Username: Bri Post Number: 234 Registered: 08-2002 |
Yeah sure. They tell us they don't have certain forms of weapons and now they are destroying the weapons that they don't have. Now they say they may not destroy them if war is eminant. How many times do they have to change their story for us not to believe them. How many times do we have to be lied to to make sure that it is really a lie. It is time to back up our inspectors with some forces, then we might be able to do the inspection of areas that they have not even allowed us to inspect. Right now they are in control of everything. | ||
| Blue (Bluegill) Senior Member Username: Bluegill Post Number: 1997 Registered: 02-2002 |
maybe the hollywood/record label elite can go talk saddam to death |
