| Author | Message | ||
     discodisco Unregistered guest |
Please advise, but before I go into my problem with my LR, don’t think I am some snobby LR yup that has nothing to do but bitch because my LR is not perfectly clean, because I am not. I utilize my trucks for what they were designed for, I change the oil and maintain them myself, getting grease under my fingernails. Here is the problem. My 2000 Discovery is a lemon and has been out of service a total of 25 days since June ’01, and is now going back on Monday for more warranty service. I have mailed letters via certified return receipt (and yes I have the receipt) to LR North America and CC’d a copy to the dealer in June of last year, no response from either. The dealer acts as though they care and really want to help, they claim to listen to my complaints, the service advisors are on the ball, except their mechanics can never fix/find the problem or end up generating new and additional ones. The truck has been in the shop for everything from falling off body moldings, to electrical problems, and the list goes on and on. Over a year ago I put the truck in the shop for a noisy engine (Jan ’02). On cold starts, the engine has a very loud rattle and clunk under idle and acceleration when cold, and it was, and still is, burning 1-1 ½ quarts of oil every 4000 miles. The dealer could not find a problem except a “leaking oil sum,” which I never noticed. Mind you I change the oil every 4k miles and have the factory service done at 7.5kmile intervals (and yes every factory service has been done), so I know the truck very very very well, but what ever. Moving on, a year later. Now, the engine is much louder on cold starts and my service advisor from the dealer finally told me this week the problem is “piston slap from worn cylinders and I need a new engine.” (Only 38k miles on the truck) However, he went on to say he has to “speak to the service manager, so they can get approval from LRNA for a new engine.” Two days later, the “piston slap” turns out to be a “faulty secondary air injection pump,” diagnosed by both the service manager and the lead mechanic. Yet when I go pick up the truck after hours today, the engine is just as noisy as before??? What the hell am I supposed to do? I left the service manager a very angry but civil message late Friday night and left the truck there so they can look at it and fix it again on Monday. So what recourse can I take when LRNA and the dealer does not answer my complaints and cannot get the job done properly? To make matters worse, I own an ’02 DII Kalahari and a ’99 Range Rover HSE, and I love the LR brand, but what can I do to finally get these pricks at LR to get the ball rolling on this ’00 lemon? I don’t want to abandon the LR brand, but we need a truck that works correctly!!! | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) advanced member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1367 Registered: 04-2002 |
Have you already tried taking it to another dealer? If we knew what area you lived in, someone might be able to suggest another dealer. | ||
| Michael Noe (Noee) advanced member Username: Noee Post Number: 449 Registered: 03-2002 |
I have had a similar experience with a dealer/LRNA re my AT going bad over time while still under warranty. My truck is mildly modified: OME lift, tires, CDL lever (99D2). They just didn't admit anything was wrong with the AT even though it was throwing codes, shifting hard and making lots of noise. I tried a letter, opened an owner care case, tried being logical and reasonable with the service mgr, at my insistence, they finally dropped the pan, found metal shavings and agreed that the thing was messed up. With that evidence, LRNA came back with a deal that would give me a new AT installed for 1/2 cost of the AT, labor charged to warranty. Not a bad deal in the end, but I chose another route. Point is, there's always a deal, some better than others. Since you have a well-documented service history and problem history, it would seem you have a good case to keep fighting this one. | ||
| John Davies Unregistered guest |
It sounds as if the problem is not the dealer's customer attitude, but their mechanical incompetence. I suggest that you have the engine problem diagnosed at another LR dealer, or even a reputable, independent local shop (it doesn't have to be a LR specialist). A noise that loud should be easy to diagnose. Even if they have to drop the oil pan, I suggest that you have them do it at your cost. If they find a damaged bottom end or cylinders, then have the LR dealer tow the truck to their own shop so they can see the damage themselves. I know this is not a very satisfactory solution, but neither is continually butting heads with stubborn incompetents. Good luck. | ||
| Brad Noviski (Bradnoviski) New Member Username: Bradnoviski Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2003 |
Your situation sucks. If you truely think you have a lemon, check your states lemon law. After reviewing the lemon law, you still think you have a case, f it and get a lawyer who specailize in lemons. I hate to use a lawyer, but at least they work for you and your best interest, unlike the dealer and LRNA. good luck | ||
| todd slater (Toddslater) Member Username: Toddslater Post Number: 207 Registered: 08-2002 |
I am with Al, hopefully there is another dealership which is convenient and most importantly competent. Sounds like the bozos where you have been taking it don't have a clue...."piston slap from worn cylinders". If you have a spare piston and rod...take it by and slap the fool with it that told you that. If you need one I've got some nice forged domed ones that outta leave a mark. As far as your noise, have the rocket scientists replaced the rocker arm assemblies on both sides yet ? If these check out you may be experiencing the carboned up exhaust valve issue. The fix here is a valve job. Also if this is your ailment, hope you haven't had the valve and pistons becoming well acquainted. These are two very common issues and if you search the archives you'll find lots of reading. If you do get into another dealer and they have good service techs, they should be able to fix it right. Also, I'd have them look over all the little murders that your current dealer has perpetrated...from what you say they could f'up putting air in the tire. Also, demand to meet with the regional service rep. I would use the spin doctors only as a last resort. my .02. | ||
| phil (Powerslide) New Member Username: Powerslide Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2002 |
Discodisco - where are you located? Perhaps, peeps here can help point you to an indy shop. | ||
| Discodisco Unregistered guest |
WOW! Thanks guys for all the feedback. I was a little reluctant to post the dealer in question, but at this point if it will help, then so be it. I am in the South San Francisco Bay Area, the dealer is Land Rover San Jose, and to answer some of your questions, I would bring it to one of the other two local dealers, but Land Rover Redwood City and British Motors in SF are both owned by the same owner as LR SJ. I have Cole European in Walnut Creek, Hubacher in Sac and LR in Marin, but all are at least 2 hours from my house…to far to drive as often as I need to go in. As for the dealer’s attitude, they are indeed great! From the Centre Manager, to my sales rep, on down to my Service Advisor and the parts guys, they all want to help, but the problem lies with the mechanics and their continued inability to fix the problems properly. Here is an example, or maybe a comedy of errors. June of 2002, the driver’s side door handle broke and we could not open the door from the inside or out (major safty issue). I brought the truck in on May 31st and it was not returned to me until June 14th. What happened in between, I can only laugh at. While fixing the handle, the LR SJ mechanic dented the driver side door fairly severely. LR SJ then had their dent guy fix it. In the process, he scratched the driver window and the driver side door as well. During this process the door handle stopped working, and of course the door was still dented as well, and the door now needed to be painted. So then the truck went to LR SJ’s body shop, when the truck was returned, the door was not dented, but the paint had bubbles in it, so back to the shop it went. Finally, when it was repainted, and LR SJ called me to come pick it up, when I show up to pick the truck up, the door handle did not work! I can only laugh, but the end result, 15days out of service, and that is not including the mechanical issues. But through this, LR SJ provided me with a ’02 DII loaner, they where more than apologetic, and took full responsibility, but why should it even get to this point. Another example, during a routine 22.5 factory service in Jan ’02 as well as some other minor service issues (inoperable seat belt etc.), when I pick the truck up and drive off, the power seats, seat heaters and speed locks don’t work. SO, back to the shop she goes, because the mechanics I am told did not reprogram the computer properly after working on the car. The list goes on and on. I was actually just talking to my wife and we are considering moving out of the LR brand for Toyota because of the lack of proper factory authorized service in our area. I might just sell them once the financing terms are up. The funny thing is that I do love LR’s, I just helped my brother by a new ’02 DII Westminster, the dealer in Bedford/Mt. Kisco New York are great. He has had a few problems with the truck, but they fixed it right the first time and life goes on. My only other local option is to bring the trucks to Exclusive British European in Campbell, who are absolutely great and never leave the trucks, greasy and don’t break shit, and they get the job done right, but with warranty issues, they are not authorized from LRNA so I am still screwed and at the mercy of Land Rover San Jose. Well, I am going to write yet another letter to LRNA tonight, certified mail, CC it to the SJ BBB, and research the hell out of the California lemon laws. But from what I already read today, the basic premise is 30days or more out of service for any number of problems during the factory warranty period, or 4 or more attempts to fix the same problem, and under CA guidelines you have a lemon. Needless to say, I think I meet these criteria, but any other help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. PS…The law also dictates that I have the option to request a new vehicle or my money back, regardless if I am the original owner or not, because as long as there is a factory authorized warranty, LRNA has an implied warranty to fix all warranted vehicles, period. | ||
| Brad Brinkman (Brad_b) New Member Username: Brad_b Post Number: 6 Registered: 09-2002 |
You could take it to British Car Service in Sac. or even Landrover Rocklin. I go to British Car Service and they are good and know what they are doing and they are landrover certified. | ||
| Jack (Jack) Member Username: Jack Post Number: 57 Registered: 03-2002 |
Wow. Not sure I could put up with this kind of crap. So far, I have been satisified with the service from LR Denver South (still under factory warranty). I've gone back to check the mechanic's work, read over the service notes, and everything is completed and checked before I get the car back. You could have similar issues with Toyota, or any brand, but have to put up with a dealership that didn't give a damn. Sounds like someone wants to make it right, maybe find the ace LR mechanic at another one of the dealerships? Good Luck, Jack | ||
| Garret Curtis (Garret13) New Member Username: Garret13 Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2003 |
That is strange to hear from a Land Rover dealer. Mine is super good to me, Land Rover of Flat Irons in Colorado. Every time I go in the door I am treated excellent. It’s not just the free loaner car! They really know their stuff! Taking time out of their schedule to help explain the problem and having a simple conversation for me makes all the difference in the world, on top of the quality! I have a tremendous amount of respect for them. I think you just found a bad dealer. I would try going to another. I would think for the most part they are like mine. That’s just my two cents. -- Garret Curtis | ||
| Mark Albrecht (Markalbrecht) Member Username: Markalbrecht Post Number: 51 Registered: 11-2002 |
Discodisco: start the BBB arbitration process -- directions in rear of owner's manuel. Or hire an attorney to assist you in the process (but you still, most likely, will have to go through arbitration -- although you may have to file suit to compell arbitration). |
