| Author | Message | ||
     James Cobert (Jim_c) New Member Username: Jim_c Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2003 |
So, I know the different worlds that people live on when it comes to using regular to premium fuel. I myself have been using premium gas, but living in LA where its 2.07 to 2.11 a gallon, its getting outrageous to fill, and I was wondering what the real reason to use premium gas is. I know that premium is cleaner, and its recomended by Land Rover. Doesn't the knock sensor adjust the fuel and air mixture for optimal performace based on the fuel grade? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each fuel grade, and to those who are using premium fuel, what are you going to do as fuel prices continue to rise? By the way, I have a 96 Disco, 4.0L. | ||
| Todd W. McLain (Ganryu) Member Username: Ganryu Post Number: 125 Registered: 10-2002 |
FWIW, I get about an extra 3km per liter on premium. Also, depending on where you are and if you have any warranty left, using regular gas could void the warranty. Also, I can only dream of $2 per gallon for premium. | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 26 Registered: 02-2003 |
I use mid-grade gas in my truck and have since the second year I've owned it. I've had no ill effects whatsoever. That said, we in the US are truly pansies when it comes to fuel prices. We pay about 1/3 what the people who built these things pay. To be honest, I am not going to complain about fuel prices until they reach the $3.00/Gallon mark. That's still cheaper than Europe, but at that point, I may have to buy a second car that's cheaper on fuel. And I can assure you, nothing will get rid of this stupid SUV glut like a year of $3.00/gallon gas. -P | ||
| Jeff Eiermann (Jeffe) New Member Username: Jeffe Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2002 |
If you look at previous postings the theory is that lower octane gas burns "hotter" which may or may not result in long term damage to the valves, etc. I do not know if this theory is iron-clad but certainly worth additional investigation. Jeff | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior member Username: Carter Post Number: 1886 Registered: 04-2002 |
I use premium because it knocks like a bitch when I don't | ||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) New Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2003 |
I also use premium because the lower grades knock like a bitch... | ||
| Perrone Ford (Perroneford) Member Username: Perroneford Post Number: 30 Registered: 02-2003 |
Intersting. My doesn't ping at all on mid-grade, and I haven't tried regular. Have you guys advanced your timing at all from stock? -P | ||
| Prescottj (Prescottj) Member Username: Prescottj Post Number: 181 Registered: 12-2002 |
I use premium to impress the chicks at the pump. just kidding LOL I use mid grade in my 96 d1 because I get the best gas mileage out of it Premium in the range rover because I feel kind of obligated to. It' s saved my ass a few times | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior member Username: Carter Post Number: 1888 Registered: 04-2002 |
haven't messed w/ the timing | ||
| Milan (Milan) Member Username: Milan Post Number: 128 Registered: 10-2002 |
I use midgrade when the prices are high. Otherwise I use premium. I used low octane just to test it out but while I did not get any pinging (96 D1), the mileage was worse than what I get with the better gas and the truck felt very lazy. The problem is that what I consider high prices may be the best deal for time to come, so I may never go back to premium. | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 162 Registered: 11-2002 |
the higher a octane rating the slower the Fuel burns. when fuel burns to fast it can cause a disruptive wave that causes fuel to get isolated in the combustion chamber and not burnt. when this wave colides with the wave of the isolated fuel burning you get a ping. this is why when your spark is to far advanced it gets worse. because the piston has not yet crossed over TDC when these waves colide the result is then a knock. because higher octane fuel burns slower it allows the flame front caused by igniting the fuel to move smoothly across the combustion chamber this then ignites all the fuel and creates a smooth transition of power release as the motor passesTDC. motors with a knock sensor will keep advancing the spark till it gets to the point it "hears" knock then it will retard the spark back. this way when you get bad or under octane fuel the motor will no be damaged. on 94 an 95 disco's with a distributor you can retard the spark to allow you to run the lower octane fuels. MM | ||
| M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Senior Member Username: Lrover94 Post Number: 688 Registered: 02-2002 |
knock knock? | ||
| Corey (Discobro) Member Username: Discobro Post Number: 53 Registered: 12-2002 |
Thom, did you say retard? That's not PC...  | ||
| Geoff 93 RRC (Geoff) Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 42 Registered: 11-2002 |
Use premium when towing or on hot, dry days. Winter weather, mid-grade or regular. Don't fool around with the towing - in a boat magazine they ruined a perfectly good new Dodge Dakota with a 5.9L HO (premium required) when they filled it with regular and started doing towing testing. (Burned hole through piston). | ||
| Robert Kendall (Krob81) Member Username: Krob81 Post Number: 14 Registered: 01-2003 |
I just love the feeling of pulling up in my Luxury SUV and telling the service attendent to fill it up with Premium. It makes me feel better then everyone else on the road. I love having buckets and buckets of money to blow. LOL ;-) | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 163 Registered: 11-2002 |
now I never said I was PC...just ask the H2 forum | ||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Senior member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 26 Registered: 02-2003 |
cheers to bobby kendall and his pocket full of money.. all this time i though he was just happy to see me. oh but of course you are also paying extra to have it pumped for you too. i'll pump myself thank you very much, that's a line i don't cross rd | ||
| Jay Hobbs (Jayxd) Member Username: Jayxd Post Number: 136 Registered: 03-2002 |
I use Premium. It is always $.10 more expensive than mid grade (93 vs. 89 Octane) so at around 20 gallons on a fillup that's $2 per tank. about 4 or 5 fillups per month for $10 extra bucks per month - I can live with that. | ||
| Carter Simcoe (Carter) Senior member Username: Carter Post Number: 1890 Registered: 04-2002 |
Thats sort of what my thoughts on the matter are Jay. Hey Robert you want to pass one of those buckets my way??? | ||
| Jeffry Scott (Jeffry) Member Username: Jeffry Post Number: 47 Registered: 12-2002 |
In Arizona, I can't find anything over 91 octane. Midgrade is 89 and regular unleaded is 87. I use the 91, but why is some premium 93 while ours is 91? Is it the additives (MTBE or methanol I think here for air quality control) | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) New Member Username: Norm Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2003 |
According to the owners manual for my '95 D1, 90+ octane is recommended, and I don't have any reason to doubt it. I don't think they make this stuff up for the hell of it, especially for trucks that only get about 10 mpg city. Using cheap-ass, low octane gas is false economy in a Rover v8 and will cost you dearly in the long run. The "little woman" destroyed my original 3.9 motor by running it low on oil and/or using cheap ass 87 octane gas so she could buy cigarettes. Now the 'little woman" is no longer allowed to drive my D1, I check the oil at every fill up and I use the highest octane I can find short of 100 octane racing fuel. 92 and 93 octane burn cooler and don't "ping" like the cheap ass stuff. ---Norm | ||
| Prescottj (Prescottj) Member Username: Prescottj Post Number: 189 Registered: 12-2002 |
Norm shouldn't you be checkin the oil when it's cold, I could be mistaken but when you check the oil when it's hot it reads higher than it actually is. So if it's tellin you the oil level is perfect you are probably runnin a little low yourself. Please tell me if I am wrong, seriously I just hope my perception has not been skewed by bad auto advice | ||
| Christopher Fisher (Netter) New Member Username: Netter Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2003 |
Milan and Everyone in Calgary There is a place called Centex that sells premium for usually what regular is at on Wed/Sat/Sun Chris | ||
| gp (Garrett) Senior Member Username: Garrett Post Number: 1829 Registered: 10-2001 |
but in NJ you can only get full service. and to make it all worse it is cheaper than PA gas at self serve. but then again i guess i would rather pay higher gas prices and live in PA. | ||
| Bill Ross (Billr) New Member Username: Billr Post Number: 27 Registered: 11-2002 |
Netter: You folks in Alberta have all the luck. What are you paying per litre these days? We are at .805/litre for reg. and Gawd knows what for premium here in N. Ontario. I get gas when I'm half empty and alternate between premium and reg. to try and strike a balance between cost and octane. But at least I'm not living Down East anymore where it going for .90+ last time I heard. | ||
| Milan (Milan) Member Username: Milan Post Number: 129 Registered: 10-2002 |
Chris, Thanks for the tip. You would not know where that Centex is would you. If not, I'll try to look it up in white pages. Bill, We pay 79.9 for reg, 81.3 for 91 and 89.9 for 93. It just went down a bit to 68.9 for reg but is supposed to go back up again tonight. It works out to about 1.60 to 1.90 US /gal. So I'm not sure how lucky we are. I liked it when gas was 32 cents a liter. Mind you that was quite a few years ago. Right now I'd take 52 or even 62. | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) New Member Username: Norm Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2003 |
Presscottj -- Let me put it to you this way: You know you're truck has probably been run too low on oil and/or over heated with low octane gas when "the little woman" has been driving your truck exclusively for several months and the first time you start it up after that time, you notice a slight, but distinct ticking sound from the motor that actually gets worse as it warms up. You then stop the motor and check the oil level and find that there is NO OIL on the dipstick. You ask "the little woman" (as politely as possible) when was the last time she checked the oil and find that she as NEVER checked the oil despite repeated warnings to check it at gas fill ups. ("The little woman" tells you that she started noticing that ticking sound some time ago but forgot to mention it to you.) Then she tells you that the reason she hasn't been checking the oil is because she doesn't want to go to the "expensive" full service station, but instead has been going to the self-serve "Hep Ur Sef" station and filling it up herself with the "El Cheapo" 86 (more or less) octane gas (despite numerous warnings to use only 90+ octane gas) in order to "save money" (primarilly, so she can buy cigarettes). And aren't you glad she saved a few bucks at the pump (looking as a $$$$+ engine rebuild)? That's when you know your Rover has been run out of oil and/or burned up with cheap gas. --- Norm | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 171 Registered: 11-2002 |
well norm retard the spark and use the cheap gas the heat dosent come from the octane it comes from when the combution pressure peaks | ||
| Prescottj (Prescottj) Member Username: Prescottj Post Number: 210 Registered: 12-2002 |
I hope I never get one of your "little womans" used vehicles. Man that would suck. That would piss me off to. at least the cigarrettes will kill her sooner | ||
| Prescottj (Prescottj) Member Username: Prescottj Post Number: 211 Registered: 12-2002 |
mm what gap would you set the sparkplugs to make em retarted or is there a different method? | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 172 Registered: 11-2002 |
its not the plugs. you rotate distributor. thats why I like the 94-95 motors you have some control. | ||
| Brian Dickens (Bri) Member Username: Bri Post Number: 204 Registered: 08-2002 |
Hey musky exactly how is that done? It sure seems like my vehicle runs fine on 87. I just tried for a small bit since gas prices are on the way up, no pinging, no change in temp guage and seems to run great. I guess I will go back to 91 until I understand this thread. Also in CO, there is ethanol in the gas, does that effect the performance/engine? | ||
| Prescottj (Prescottj) Member Username: Prescottj Post Number: 216 Registered: 12-2002 |
What year Brian? I have a 96 and 97 d1 and want to know if it is possible | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 73 Registered: 10-2002 |
Brian- Not to hijack from musky, but.. 1) Go buy a quality timing light 2) Connect per instructions (i.e. red and black clamps to pos and neg battery posts and spark plug wire clamp to #1 cyl spark plug wire) 3) loosen distrib hold-down nut 4) Aim timing light at crank and pull trigger and observe where timing pointer is showing on crank. 5) adjust timing advance/retard by turning distributor L/R. I don't know what D1 stock setting is but '89 RRC is 6 deg advance. I've pushed to 10 deg advance before detonation with high octane fuel but not much improvement due to crappy 8.13:1 comp ratio. You can retard quite a bit to allow lower octane fuel but it'll feel like you're towing an M1 Abrams (course that may discourage wife from driving ) | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 74 Registered: 10-2002 |
Prescottj- Won't work on your 96 and 97 rigs as this requires old timey distributor. | ||
| Prescottj (Prescottj) Member Username: Prescottj Post Number: 218 Registered: 12-2002 |
figured it would'nt | ||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 75 Registered: 10-2002 |
Brian BTW- Ethanol is not great on any rubber parts in fuel system but you vehicle is new enough so probably not a problem. However, alcohol burns roughly twice as fast as gasoline so when you have 10% ethanol in tank you actually bought 5% less fuel and thus lower effective MPG. | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) New Member Username: Norm Post Number: 5 Registered: 02-2003 |
Well, there's got to be a reason why the owner's manual on a '95 makes such a big deal about using 90+ octane (otherwise you would have voided your warranty). I can't think of any reason why LR would insist that you spend more money at the pump on premium if they could simply adjust the timing for it to run just as well on regular -- these trucks are expensive enough to drive at 10 mpg City, even if using regular. It may be due to the fact that the 3.9 "B" and later motors have a 9.35:1 compression ratio vs. the 8.13:1 ratios on the 3.5s, which were designed to run on regular and had abyssmal performance. I've heard that one of the problems with using low octane gas in a 9.35 motor is excessive heat on the cylinder walls which can cause the sleeve to slip. Personally, I'd rather spend a bit more on premium and get better performance with no knocks and not worry about engine damage than have to screw around with the distributor. Anyway, if you can't afford a couple of extra bucks at the pump for premium, you probably shouldn't be driving a Rover. ---Norm PS to Prescott: I'll probably seccumb to "the little woman's" second-hand smoke long before it gets her. Although it's funny, she just bought herself a .22 calibre "Lady Smith" revolver and took out a big life insurance policy on me. Hmmmmm... | ||
| thom mathie (Muskyman) Senior member Username: Muskyman Post Number: 175 Registered: 11-2002 |
your right norm i know nothing of what I speak...I'll go sell my rover today. MM | ||
| Jaime (Blueboy) Senior Member Username: Blueboy Post Number: 527 Registered: 02-2002 |
lol thom!! how much do you want for it?? and norm, distributors can become loose especially driving over corduroy roads so you might want to at least have some idea on how it effects your engine. and how to adjust the fucking thing in the field if it does become loose. Jaime | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) New Member Username: Norm Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2003 |
Now, now, guys, don't get your tail feathers ruffled. Of course, if you've been burning regular in your Discos, I'm not sure I'd want to buy it unless you gave me a steep discount so I could put a new motor in. I was merely pointing out that there had to be a reason why Rover recommended premium gas and gave all sorts of dire warnings in the owner's manual if you used regular. It stands to reason, that by using premium gas the $/per mile entry on the sticker of a new LR of that vintage would have been 10 - 15% higher than your average regular-drinking SUV. You'd think that Rover would have tuned their motors to burn regular -- unless there was a good reason not to, like engine damage or lack of performance. Anway, I figure I spend $100 to $150 extra per year (at most) by using premium rather than regular, so it's not a significant amount (to me) for better performance and piece of mind. Besides, as far as $ per mile, a LR is probably one of the most expensive commuter vehicle you can own, so I don't think anyone would buy one for economy, especially with the price of parts and repairs on these trucks. All I can say is that my truck performs better and cooler with no knocking on 92 - 93 octane than it does with 87 - 89 octane, which is reason enough for me. Jaime, thanks for reminding me about the loose dizzy -- I went out and checked it and it was right where I set it 2 years ago, good and tight!!! ---Norm | ||
| Prescottj (Prescottj) Member Username: Prescottj Post Number: 222 Registered: 12-2002 |
Norm, Is your owners manual your only source of information? | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1017 Registered: 02-2002 |
First off, I usually run exclusively the cheap lower octane gasoline. When I pulled the heads after blowing it up, the cylinder walls were in excellent condition and the deck appeared to be true. When you drive as much as I do, you appreciate the lower cost. I foolishly worked up a spreadsheet on my fuel costs (Wisely not sharing with the little woman, unlike the year-end credit card report which she found and then began screaming at me...). When you realize that your fuel costs are approaching 10% of your gross annual income, you begin to find ways to cut those costs and no, I will not consider a lesser vehicle for a daily driver. Back to the vehicles. With respect to the ignition timing issue, the efficiency of the vehicle and thus the power output is directly affected as you deviate from optimum. Usually, the highest power output will be a very lean air/fuel mixture and ignition timing on the ragged edge between pre-ignition and smooth combustion wave-front generation (did I use the correct terminology Thom?). By our changing ignition timing, we are definitely deviating. Rover built this engine to perform in a specific fashion, using a specific fuel. There is no conspiracy here to separate us from our money, just old-fashioned engineering. If we want to run on less expensive fuel, we must accept diminished performance. Peace, Paul | ||
| Daniel Covaciu (Danielcovaciu) Member Username: Danielcovaciu Post Number: 42 Registered: 10-2002 |
For the 20K miles I've owned my 98 disco I have only ever put 87 octane Texaco or Chevron gas in it. Always ran fine. Last month I filed it up with 92 in hopes of getting better mpg than the 12.5 I usually get. I may have gotten 13mpg, maybe. So I went back to 87 octane. No pinging or ticking or anything else. Before I started reading this board I didnt even know we were supposed to put premium in these trucks. FWIW Dan | ||
| Discochic (Discochic) New Member Username: Discochic Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2003 |
hmmm...interesting Just filled the tank yesterday (20+ gal) and the trip log/ odometer read 350 miles. Not bad mileage IMO for my '96 disco 4.0 manual. The cost? $38 for premium and well worth it. This includes two day trips (skiing) and various short jaunts around town... | ||
| Christian Cartner (Cartner) New Member Username: Cartner Post Number: 20 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm pretty sure that using 89 and 87 is the reason why my O2 sensors fried, and consequently the catalytic converters. Any thoughts? That is the only thing I could conclude, as the truck had gone through two sets of O2 sensors in a years time. | ||
| C. Fisher (Netter) New Member Username: Netter Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2003 |
Milan There is one between Hertiage and Southland on Elbow Drive and I have seen another on Blackfoot in the 17th Ave SW area. I think there is one on centre Street but I am not to sure. Hope this helps! Chris | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) New Member Username: Norm Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2003 |
Presscott -- Well, I've got the factory service manual, a Haynes manual, the factory overhaul manual and various websites such as this. But as far as warranty information and recommended fuel, you bet -- the '95 owner's manual is my primary source. It says in 3 or 4 different places to use only premium gas otherwise you void your basic warranty as well as the emmission control warranty. Paul -- Which begs the question, why did your engine blow up? Daniel -- Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a '98 would have the 4.0 motor which has knock sensors with the GEMS "distributorless" ignition that allow the ECU to advance or retard spark as needed so you can run low octane gas. ---Norm | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1020 Registered: 02-2002 |
Norm: Pilot error caused the failure of the cylinder head gaskets which resulted in the dropping of two exhaust valve guides to the cylinders between which the head gasket failed. Accepting the abuse I have already received, I did not have sufficient glycol in my coolant. Trust me, you guys can't give me more grief than my wife has already put me through. I even went back to review the pre-nup, but foolishly, I did not include the Rover as something she could not make me give up! Peace, Paul | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) New Member Username: Norm Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2003 |
Paul -- I feel for you. After "the little woman" burned up my original 3.9 and destroyed the 5-speed transmission by generally driving a D1 like a Lamborghini (speed shifts, etc.), we had some "problems." In fact, at one point, I threatened to make her drive around in a crapped-out purple '92 Dodge minivan -- which, I know, borders on spousal abuse. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed and I ended up with an RPi 4.6 and a rebuilt Ashcroft R380 (paid for out of the "diamond fund") -- best two things I could have done for my truck. Now I've got the baddest D1 in two states. So, every cloud has a silver lining. ---Norm | ||
| Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Senior Member Username: Paulschram Post Number: 1023 Registered: 02-2002 |
Norm: I am still making deposits to the "Diamond fund" after admitting that it was my fault the engine blew up, good thing I knew how to fix it. After the rebuild, mileage fell (O2 sensors most likely, after 165K). I was recently asked if I would prefer a Toyota Tercel as a daily driver-this necessitated yet another review of the pre-nup. Nope, nothing in there about forcing me to drive something other than a Rover... The only REAL problem is she is so much better than the first wife I have to keep her. | ||
| Blake Monchilovich (Azblake) New Member Username: Azblake Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2003 |
Muskyman - How many degrees or what to listen for? | ||
| Steve Fesperman (Fespy00) New Member Username: Fespy00 Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2003 |
Don't you love how we refer to the "Manual" as if it where the bible when determning what octane to use, but pay little attention to the other info such as tire pressures, tire rotation, oil change intervals, etc. Seems we often forget that the same people who wrote the manual until recently couldn't figure out how to make engines/transmissions/pumps that won't leak, and can only get a miserable 188hp from a V8. Just my thoughts. | ||
| Luis Constantin (Luisc) New Member Username: Luisc Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2003 |
What I can't figure out is, why a vehicle that is designed to trek any where in the world, where any gas may be a premium comodity regardless of octane, is designed to use only premium gas? Try finding premium gas in Panama. | ||
| eduardo (Honus) New Member Username: Honus Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2003 |
ummmmm you can get premium gas in panama..it may be dirty as hell, but it does have a 93 octane rating and no pings in the truck. I take my disco 1 every year to baja, sometimes mainland mex, and twice to central america. I have never had any problems with the fuel or knocking. I have used 87 to 93 on these extended trips and when i get back stateside I run two bottles of sea foam to clean the inside of the engine of all the carbon deposits. No sticky exhaust valve problems. Havent towed anything, but my truck is always heavily weighed down. |
