| Author | Message | ||
     Hernan (Hnp) New Member Username: Hnp Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2003 |
How many seconds of sustained wheel slipping before TC kicks in? Parked the D2 today in snowy lot and front wheels was slipping, but noticed from the side mirrors that rear wheels were not moving at all even the TC light on the dash illuminated. I'm able to park it though. Hernan | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Senior Member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1382 Registered: 04-2002 |
Should come on pretty quick. If the ETC light was on you should have had at least 3 wheels rotating in "most" cases. But ETC can be overcome. Sounds like a CDL would have helped in your situation. | ||
| Scott Scott (Scottoz) New Member Username: Scottoz Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2003 |
Al - isnt the bottom line with ETC this - if you start to slip on a climb and need to boot it to get momentum at a particular point, when you give it a lot of gas you could end up with one wheel spinning out of four because the wheel without traction cannot be braked effectively by the ETC because the torque of the drivetrain is too great for the brakes? Hence you sit and spin one wheel with the V8 making great sounds!. With ETC AND CDL at least in that situation one of the other axels would have another wheel turning. | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Senior member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1220 Registered: 02-2002 |
My experience with ETC: Dry, rocky and / or muddy conditions: As soon as TC activates causing the SLABS unit to cycle; the cycling of the ABS causes the vehicle to yaw left and right until traction is obtained (Wheel Grip as opposed to slippage)resulting in momentum. Snowy, Icey conditions: The ETC activates and the SLABS pulses your brakes over and over and over....The problem here is that there is nothing for your tires to grip in order to obtain traction which would lead to momentum. But the TC / SLABS has no clue if you are in Moab or on an iceberg. So it will just pulse away eating at your expensive brakes.  Last Saturday in the mountains of WV, I made a comment to a friend, "Hey man, ETC is kicking ass today in this stuff." Mere minutes later, the ETC became useless on a snow covered icy climb. The TC just cycled away and all my wheels/tires did was spin-stop-spin. Therefore I had to engage the CDL. Oh Yes, I heard about it to. LOL! IMHO and there are a few that agree: If you are going to run CDL on a D2, then deactivate the ETC and ABS. Why put more strain on your drivetrain and eat away at your brakes? Let CDL work for you. I was a skeptic at first, but with the correct throttle / brake control (CVC knows I have issues with throttle control  ), you can make through a lot of crap in the D2. Paul and some pennys. | ||
| Tom Bushey (Medora) New Member Username: Medora Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2003 |
Are there any aftermarket (or otherwise) mods that can be added to a Disco with only ETC to give it a locking diff or something approaching it's capabilities? What kind of dollars would this involve? | ||
| Scott Scott (Scottoz) New Member Username: Scottoz Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2003 |
Sand is interesting - works very well on very sandy beaches in Australia. | ||
| todd slater (Toddslater) Member Username: Toddslater Post Number: 215 Registered: 08-2002 |
I am not a fan of ETC...especially in snow and ice. The worst part is all the damn rubber band and spring breaking sounds...sounds like a road runner cartoon in there. I'll take CDL and do a little left foot braking to transfer power to the wheels that grip. Guess I'm old fashioned. But that noise is annoying. | ||
| Christopher Dynak (Adtoolco) Member Username: Adtoolco Post Number: 69 Registered: 08-2002 |
Really?(Not being facitious)I found ETC wonderfull in the snow. Not attempting to knock anyone, we all have different driving styles but I have found that breaking traction in snow is bad. I don't care what traction device you use if tires are spinning you aren't going anywhere. I used a slow momemtum technique which served me well and had the big D-90s asking me about the ETC. -Chris | ||
| Ross Thoma (Rossthoma) Member Username: Rossthoma Post Number: 150 Registered: 08-2002 |
Scott re: your quote "Al - isnt the bottom line with ETC this - if you start to slip on a climb and need to boot it to get momentum at a particular point, when you give it a lot of gas you could end up with one wheel spinning out of four because the wheel without traction cannot be braked effectively by the ETC because the torque of the drivetrain is too great for the brakes?" The electronicaly controled ETC, •••••• and Engine mgnt system will fuck with the engine output so that there isn't a spike in output to counter what the ETC is trying to accomplish, (not spinning the wheels) I you get to a spot that you need to BOOT IT, when you hit the gas the ems will understant that you need some get up and go right now but it will only spool up power as fast a traction will allow. Play with it on snow covered streets, hit the gas and see how it works Ross Thoma | ||
| Scott Scott (Scottoz) New Member Username: Scottoz Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2003 |
Ross - thanks that is interesting. We dont get snow in Queensland Australia. I wonder if the ETC is differently configured for this market. I have a manual 01 DII, complianced in 02. I have put the boot in on slopes and in sand when ETC has been chattering away and got instant response from the engine- eg at Christmas I was getting slip through some 2-3 foot soft beach sand, that was badly cut up (just for for a bit of fun I can tell you that 2 Grand Larado's got stuck before me) and I booted it as I lost momentum in 2nd gear low range and the engine reacted normally and gave me instant 5000 rpm at that throttle setting (ie I didnt floor it!) from the 2000 that it had been at and even though the ETC light was on and the ABS pump was going mad, I was going at walking pace and got through - I wonder though if the ETC contributed at all or whether it was just the other factors including engine capacility and suspension dynamics etc (types at 15psi). Our tyres are skinny (stockers) for the sand being 235/75 16". | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Senior Member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1386 Registered: 04-2002 |
From what I've ran into the ETC works well in *most* flat terrain. This includes sand and snow. Once you start to climb or descend the ETC becomes less than ideal But even on flat ground it is possible to overcome the ETC. Here's something to try. If you have a rock ledge in your area, carefully drive off the ledge so your front two wheels are on the ground but the weight of the vehicle is on the rear hitch. Your rear wheels will have little or no contact with the ground. Now try to get off that ledge with only the ETC. You'll find the ETC will not work but if you had a CDL this would be little or no problem at all. This is similar to what happens on a steep hill climb in mud or snow only the rear wheels get all the traction in the hill climb. On the other hand, when you have one wheel on each axle that has little or no traction the CDL will start running into problems while the ETC will generally work like a champ. A good example of this is when you get cross axled when the vehicle is mostly level. | ||
| Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Senior Member Username: Gregdavis Post Number: 654 Registered: 08-2002 |
Tom, you can either get a used t-case from a wrecking yard with the CDL stub (less than $1K), or get a Quaiffe diff for the t-case. It's not lockable, but it is a limited slip as oppossed to the factory open diff (about $2K). | ||
| Jack (Jack) Member Username: Jack Post Number: 74 Registered: 03-2002 |
Hey All - See my similar post in: DiscoWeb Bulletin Board » General - Non Tech » (Snow 02/16/03) Land Rover Best 4 x 4 by far I've had no problem with ETC gaining traction alone, but trying to extract my sister's 325i, stuck up to it's axles was another story. The Disco would not even begin to move forward, just sat there spinning one wheel and then another - and the ABS/ETC chattering away. Chris - I agree w/ you re: slow momentum, that usually works great, especially in snow. I just wondered if CDL would have allowed me to do that in this situation, and slowly pull her car out. Maybe I'll do a test of both systems on the same icy hill (we've got two months of winter left) and post the results. Anyone know of a way to lock the CDL (without installing a kit of any kind) and not get fried by the exhaust? Jack | ||
| todd slater (Toddslater) Member Username: Toddslater Post Number: 217 Registered: 08-2002 |
I know what your saying about hills, ETC and slippery conditions. My wife was complaining about the winter prowess of the D2...at first I told her it was her imagination and to quite driving like Mario in the snow. Then after some urging I took it out and drove it like I would either of my older LC's. At the first uphill, off camber 90 degree left turn I hit...I did what I would normally do in the LC's. As the front begins to wash out (go straightish while the road and wheels are making a left), I boot the throttle to get the front wheels to dig in and pull the front of the truck around in the intended direction. Whoa Nellie, not in the LR with ETC and all them funny noises. As you say the rear wheels had plenty o' grip causing the fronts to merely be along for the ride and creating more front end push and the trees at roads edge to approach more rapidly. If your not locking the CDL, you definitly need to alter your driving style if your used to a more conventional (ok old style) 4wd. | ||
| Norm Orschnorschki (Norm) New Member Username: Norm Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2003 |
I'm going to be renting a Disco II from Hertz for the mountains in New Mexico next month, which I assume will have stock tires, ETC, ACE, SLABS, Hill Decent, etc., etc., etc. -- but probably no CDL (I own a '95 DI w/ CDL). Since I'll probably be running into snow and ice up there, I'm wondering if tire chains would help the ETC, etc. or if I should just turn off the ECT (if possible) and just go with the chains. I assume I would only need chains for the back tires. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks, Norm | ||
| Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Senior Member Username: Offroaddisco Post Number: 1387 Registered: 04-2002 |
Norm, SLABS is just the name for the ECU that handles ABS/ETC and the SLS. As for chains... they will help no matter what other traction control you have. And there is no real reason to turn off the ETC in the snow. It will help but there will be situations where the CDL would help more but chances are you're D2 will not have a CDL. | ||
| Christopher Dynak (Adtoolco) Member Username: Adtoolco Post Number: 70 Registered: 08-2002 |
I want to add that ETC doesn't make a D2 invunrable offroad. We're all going to get stuck no matter if you have ETC, CDL, or F & R lockers or a combination. Just the nature of the beast and most of the fun of it. ETC helps with wheel slippage and thats about it. It works very well on most terrain but kryptonite lies everywhere. So be wary Superman. | ||
| Jack (Jack) Member Username: Jack Post Number: 75 Registered: 03-2002 |
Norm, Not sure where you're going in NM, but if it's anywhere near a ski area or Nat. Park I can't imagine you would need chains. I would think the roads are plowed and sanded on a regular basis. The stock D2 is still an awesome 4x4, I've pulled out a lot of suv's here, and so far, have not needed one myself. I'm carrying a camera for the day I find a H2 in a ditch Jack | ||
| Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Senior member Username: V22guy Post Number: 1222 Registered: 02-2002 |
Norm, My remarks above were based on driving over ice and snow on unplowed trails or unimproved roads with rock and ditch obstacles thrown in. The D2 kicks ass on maintained roads even when covered with snow and ice. Go forth and have fun in New Mexico. Paul |
